Breaking news to start at the top of the hour. Donald trump is picking Rex Tillerson as secretary of state. Frumds choice is unconventional but isnt that what weve all come to expect from the president elect . Plus, trump firing off twitter tirades against his critics, will it have a Chilling Effect on those who disagree with him snl trump voters on one College Campus calling for safe spaces is free speech under fire . What the people closest to the investigation think really happened. There is some big news, good evening by the way, on the transition tonight. What more can you tell us . Tomorrow morning, the president elect will announce who his top diplomat will be. Heres how this all happened. The president elect and Rex Tillerson didnt have a relationship prior to this process. This was actually driven in large part by three people. Robert gates, james baker and condoleezza rice. All people who recommended the president elect should sit down and have a conversation with Rex Tillerson, from that point, im told the two men hit it off, they had similar business backgrounds. And in those conversations, it was where the president elect reached a level of comfort with Rex Tillerson than he hadnt with anyone else. Hes reached a point where hes going to name the ceo of the Oil Giant Exxon to the secretary of state position tomorrow. What does that mean for the other candidates . Mitt romney taking to facebook this evening, to say it was an honor to have been considered for the secretary of state position and saying he had high hopes for this. It was a shock based on what we saw during the primary process, during the general election process it was a shock that the president elect was willing to bring mitt romney in at all. The two did have a phone conversation this evening, where the president elect expressed his sincere thanks clearly the two thinking much higher than the other. Rex tillerson will be the selection. The big question now is, what is the plan for the trump transition operation goingforward to secure this nominations eventual confirmation. There are democrats that are wary of Rex Tillersons backgrounds. There are republicans who are wary of his connections to russia. Because of his role in exxon, he has those connections. Already, senators like john mccain, have expresses concern about those connections, they will need to be addressed not just nor that confirmation, but to get through the committee. Why this delay . Theyre not ready . Is kind of the short and sweet answer to it, the reality is, the president elect has been focused, you talk to his advisers on his cabinet picks. Thats been evidenced by these constant stream of people who have been going in and out of trump tower over the last couple weeks. This is an important process, this is a crucial process to what his presidency will look like, how hes going to separate the real conflicts of interest that his business brings to the table every day. It was the president elect who announced this News Conference. He made a big deal about this december 15th announcement, with specifics about how he was going to separate himself from his business. That will no longer be happening. They simply werent ready. This is a very complicated process, we have never seen a president elect come to office with this many potential conflicts, this wide array of business interest and they havent finalized the structure to remove the president elect operation ali, and pass down the business to his children, the big question is, even if he takes himself out of the operational duties, he hands it to his children, will the conflicts of interest disappear in most likely no. And because of that fact, there are some concerns inside the trump operation about if the president elect is willing to go as far as he should, those concerns coupled with the fact that the lawyers arent there yet, mean this will be postponed until january. No News Conference and there hasnt been one since july 27th. No announcement about the business dealings that have raised Major Concerns about conflicts of interest. Youre a pro, i dont know who was talking loudly around you, but i would have surely lost my concentration, you kept right on going. Thank you for that. I appreciate that. Now to bring in todd gitland. Also, carl bernstein, and nationally syndicated talk show host Dennis Prager. Carl, Rex Tillerson getting the nod for secretary of state, hes very close to vladimir putin, is that a good idea . It depends hon how he performs and what he tells the senate at his confirmation hearings. Theres going to be a lot of problems raised in terms of carbon emissions, epa policies, and then theres also this whole question of the russians. The russians are looming large and larger over the Trump Presidency and there are basic questions that need to be answered. Especially about perhaps Donald Trumps conflicts of interest in russia. Does donald trump have a lot of loans, through his various businesses. In russian hands . His son, donald trump jr. Has been trumps personal ambassador to russia, this needs to be looked at. I think one of the things that were really learning here is trump is controlling this process of forming his new administration brilliantly, with no interest whatsoever in showing us a really open, truthful picture of what he is up to. And thats really our job in the press to develop a story. That has to do with the real truth of whats going on here. Dennis prager, what do you think of that . I didnt quite understand the last comment. I understood the previous ones, i dont understand what a truthful open process of appointing your cabinet means. Hes told the country who hes considering. Transparency, what is that . I dont understand what that means . When you pick your cabinet, you pick your cabinet, hes told the people who hes considered, we know everybody or just about everyone i assume that hes met with, i dont see that as an issue. As for russia, i would just asked professor gitlan dw. Did it disturb you when the Obama Administration did essentially nothing when russia an exed invaded and annexed part of the ukraine called crim crimea. Now when theres no damage done that we can show, we can only anticipate, the left is almost hysterical about russias influence on donald trump. If youre asking me, im not the left myself. What do you make of Rex Tillerson and to carls response as well. This is a man that has one value. The acquisition of reserves to pump more fossil fuel remnants into the atmosphere, to make life increasingly uninhabitable. I see him as yet another pick by trump who likes himself. Nothing that distracts from anything but power. Thats who hes comfortable with. Theyre replicas of himself. I hope that the media, instead of just covering the news meaning just reporting what his people are saying, id like to know how anybody knows that he is sincere in his conversation with mitt romney. I would like to see some excavation here, i dont mean of oil, i mean of a very an enormous corporation of which tillerson has been chief. Not only russia, but dozens of other countries. Its a private government of its own. Will we see information about tillersons practices . About how he is . Hes obviously not a diplomat. Obviously not anything but a deal maker toward the end of increasing the payoff to exxon mobil stockholders. Are we going to get a serious look at the man. It seems to me that both in terms of what happened in crimea and the horrible rape of the ukraine by russia, there are plenty of people on the left and right who condemned it, to look at this new presidency in terms of right and left is a great mistake, that what we really need here i think is a kind of unified attempt particularly by the press the mainstream press, the left press, the right conservative press to try to learn as much as we can about these people, about donald trump, and what this new presidency is. How is this new secretary of state going to deal with somebody like mike flynn who clearly is not qualified to be the National Security adviser to the president of the United States. Thats why i moved on, were sticking with this administration. The other administration is over now, pretty soon. I do want to move on to talk about trump cancelling the press conference for this week. Is he dodging the press because he doesnt want to answer many of these questions . Especially about conflicts of interest . I dont know why hes cancelled it. Unlike my colleagues on this panel. I cant tell the future as well as they can. They know how these people will interrelate, all i can say is, he cancelled it, i dont know why he cancelled it, maybe he feels he has nothing to gain, just as Hillary Clinton felt she had nothing to gain by having a press conference. I also have no idea why he cancelled fp im not terribly worried about the cancellation of a press conference. I think we can make too much of that. What we need to know is what are the conflicts of interest. And is there any reason whatsoever that he should not divest himself, totally, the whole idea that his family is going to continue to control these interests while hes president of the United States. I dont think the country had this idea that he was going to be the president of the United States and the Trump Enterprises was going to continue to go on. In this regard, there was an extremely thoughtful article today which really wasnt left right in this instance. You would appreciate it. The wall street journal has some prominent lawyer describe how there is no perfect solution to the problem of Trump Enterprises. If he needs to divest it all in some ipo, lets say, then you have the security and exchange commission, where you have his trump that is, being the person who appoints the commissioners. So theres literally nothing that can be done that except an honest administration, i dont think hes going to wake up every day and worry about whats happened to trump. Im not theres no way to know. Let him speak. It would have been nice if our journalism had explored the problem of trump as administr e administrator of a vast business empire, at the same time he was running for president of the United States. Why did we have to wait . We did that a number of times on this show, and got called nonpartisan. If i had a hat i would tip it, it was not very prominent in the hometown newspaper the New York Times i have to say. The Washington Post did a lot of terrific reporting on this question. Trumps children are an extension of donald trump, the idea that they are going to impartially conduct his business without regard to the profits that can be generate d with regard to their fathers presidency is ridiculous. I read that piece, and i thought it was a first rate piece. It seems to me, some kind of total divestiture of his holdings. And out of the family. Cash out. We know that mr. Trump has not been generous as a contributor. As a philanthropist. Perhaps this is the time for him to pivot and give it all away. Let me ask you this. Todd, you havent had todd, you havent had much time to speak, i have to get on to other things. Donald trump already got a lot of good press when he tweeted two weeks ago, he was going to leave his great business in total to focus on running the country. Is a perception more important than the reality, is he going to have i just tweeted it out, i can give the information, instead of having the press conference where it may seem real . I think its evident that trump thinks he can speak over the heads of the mob, the adoring mob, and go directly to his people. And his people dont care whats on cnn, they dont care whats in the New York Times or Washington Post. He believes that he can lock in, kind of mind meld. And that any institution that presumes to count that is not in his field of magnetism can be discarded. Its part of the waste of america that is to be dismantled because its in the way of his project, which has to do with wealth and power period. Stay with me, everyone, when we come back, the voters on one College Campus calling for safe spaces. Its not liberals, its trump voters. This is your daughter. And she just got this. Ooh boy. But, youve got hum. So you can set this. And if she drives like this, you can tell her to drive more like this. Because youll get this. You can even set boundaries for so if she should be here, but instead goes here, here, or here. Youll know. So dont worry, mom. Because you put this, in here. Hum by verizon. The technology designed to make your car smarter, safer and more connected. Put some smarts in your car. Even if youre trying your best. Along with diet and exercise, oncedaily toujeo® may help you control your blood sugar. Get into a daily groove. Lets groove tonight. Share the spice of life. Baby, from the makers of lantus®, slice it right. Toujeo® provides blood sugarlowering activity for 24 hours and beyond, were gonna groove tonight. Proven blood sugar control all day and all night, and significant a1c reduction. Toujeo® is used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. It contains 3 times as much insulin in 1 milliliter as standard insulin. Dont use toujeo® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar or if youre allergic to insulin. Allergic reaction may occur and may be life threatening. Dont reuse needles or share insulin pens, even if the needle has been changed. The most common side effect is low blood sugar, which can be serious and life threatening. It may cause shaking, sweating, fast heartbeat, and blurred vision. Check your blood sugar levels daily. Injection site reactions may occur. Dont change your dose of insulin without talking to your doctor. Tell your doctor about all medicines you take and all your medical conditions. Taking tzds with insulins, like toujeo®, may cause Heart Failure that can lead to death, even if youve never had Heart Failure before. Dont dilute or mix toujeo® with other insulins or solutions as it may not work as intended and you may lose blood sugar control, which could be serious. Find your rhythm and keep on grooving. Lets groove tonight. Ask your doctor about toujeo®. Share the spice of life. Voters on one College Campus calling for safe spaces in the wake of the election. Its not the voters you may think. Speaking of freedom of speech, student who is voted for trump at the university of michigan wrote a letter asking for campus wide safe spaces, its shameful to live in a nation where individuals are afraid to voice their beliefs for fear of being shamed. Nobody has died, the United States has not died. Democracy is more alive than ever. Simply put, the American People voted and trump won. Why do you say safe spaces would be a Bad Development . Youre asking me, safe spaces was invented by students of the left, whenever theres a conservative speaker on the campus. Who came to speak at various campuses and deny that there is a rape culture for example at the campus, the kids, and i would say children retreat to places with stuffed animals, play dough and other literally toys to play with to comfort them. They feel they should never be exposed to someone from the right. There is, however, a legitimate factor here, that kids who did vote for trump are ostracized and feel quite not micro aggressed against, but loathed and hated on the campus. Im still against the safe space, even for conservative students. The university should be a safe space for everybody, there shouldnt be any play dough stuffed animal safe places. Youre a professor initially that question was meant for you. What do you think . I think safe spaces are highly overrated. If there are Trump Supporters at the university of michigan who are dismayed because other students dont agree with them, i say, stick up for what you believe. Dont go wining to the administration. Thats supposed to be what soft left people do. I agree. Come on. I think we all agree on this. One at a time. Something that everybody on this panel agrees on. Only for the left. The safest space is a free debate and respect for real debate, this is nonsense thats been going on on campuses, and all those who have engendered it. What has happened to College Campuses where kids or students need safe spaces now, when i was growing up, there were a lot of people who hated me, not because of my ideology or politics, just because of who i was, the color of my skin. But all of that build up my armor. I think campuses should be free places where people who feel abused or in need of support can talk with their peers. They shouldnt interfere with the public life of the campus. They should occupy the center of the campus. They have the perfect right to meet and do what they like. If they want to play with toys. What they dont have a right to do is to demand. Im speaking with anyone regardless of color or ideology. They dont have a right to be insulate insulated. Where do you draw the line. We live in a world in which black students have been abused. Its not the trump people who have had swastikas painted on their environment. Its not them who are being threatened with raich, so i think you know, im not im not somebody who thinks that students dont have rights for selfprotection, and i think that the university at large is must be deeply committed to sustaining the zig knit at the and safety of every student. Its an assault on every student. Where do you draw the line . Do you draw the line with Richard Spencer, the right nationalist who spoke at texas a m . Do you draw the line with that . When i was at the university of michigan, george linken rockwell came to speak. He did not convert a sole so my knowledge, he was part of a series of okay, they were into controversy, and the earth kept on spinning on its axis. I say, lets keep nazis see how hateful, loathe some and insufferable Richard Spencer is, how vile his ideas are, and, you know, theyll be grown up enough to repell them. Free speech is the most important let us get in, and then ill let you get in. Nazis got more freedom of speech when i was a kid than more antinazi conservatives. I place 100 of the blame on the cowards known as College President s and professors and deans. The university of california has issued an official list of micro aggressions of things that are considered racist at the university of california. Here is one example. Anyone who says that there is only one race, the human race is now considered a racist officially at the university of california. Go ahead, carl. Free speech is absolutely sacrosanct. And the idea that we have interference into free space on our campuses. Everyone needs protection, and there ought to be protective places if there is a real threat to retreat to. But thats something thats very different than coddling people and saying, wait a minute, we are going to circ um scribe free speech with the idea that peoples speech and ideas can hurt us let them express themselves. Gentlemen, thank you. What about free speech on social media. A White Nationalist who was suspended from twitter last month, is back tweeting again. Should he be . my hero zero by lemonheads zero really can be a hero. Get zero down, zero deposit, zero due at signing, and zero first months payment on select volkswagen models. Right now at the volkswagen sign then drive event. A White Nationalist who was suspended from twitter last month is back sharing his message on social media. Its apropos we have you here since you started talking about the altright first on social media. I want to get your take on what we just had discussed. I think that it used to be that conservatives and republicans were repelled by talk of things like the politics of victimhood and identity politics. And sort of took conservatives tried to take the high ground. Thats out of style and the donald trump era, the model is to copy the left. If they want to talk about safe spaces, were going to have to have space spaces too. Were going to be victims as well. Thats the new right wing strategy. Richard spencer, the leader of the so called altright raised a controversy after he spoke unwelcome at texas a m University Last week 37 his twitter account was restored after being suspended last month. What questions do you have about this if any. I think its interesting, this is a question as much about twitter as it is about Richard Spencer, its unclear why they suspended him, to begin with, they say its because he had too many twitter accounts. Nothing to do with him being a White Nationalist. But at the same time they suspended him, they suspended other right nationalist altright twitter feeds, including a person going by the name of ricky vaughn. Thats a big question. Why did they suspend him, reinstate him, give him his verified blue checkmark back, and what responsibility does twitter have . Theyre a prooift business, they should be able to have anybody on they want or ban anybody they want. Richard spencer argues theyre actually more like a utility, in the modern world, its not just government that can sensor you, if youre kicked off of twitter, theyre effectively silencing you. This raises a lot of issues. For twitter, how are they going to handle groups like this, and if youre going to ban someone like Richard Spencer, then can you ban anybody . What if its a conservative you disagree with, but not a White Nationalist. Twitter says that spencer was suspended on a technicality. Let me read their user conduct policy. Heres what it says. You may not promote violence against or directly attack or threaten people on the basis of race, ethnicity gender identity, age, disability or disease. We also do not allow accounts whose primary purpose is insighting harm toward others on the basis of their categories. Have they ever reads my twitter feed . 90 of the people who post now since the election would be banned. I thought you were talking about your tweets. To me, yes. Heres the interesting question. Now, there have been this becomes a really gray area. Theres a guy names Milo Yanopolis who is an altright kind of guy. Hes a prominent writer at breitbart. Com. He was permanently banned from twitter, not for anything he did himself, because he led or inspired his twitter followers to harass a comedienne from ghostbusters. He never used twitter to harass anybody or attack anyone. You can argue his entire political philosophy constitutes hate a hate whatever. So, you know, twitter, i think needs to figure out what their standards are, because i dont think you read that entire paragraph there, its still not clear to me, why he was barned, and why he was reinstated. They own the platform, twitter does, just like who you work for owns the platform, just like who i work for owns this platform. By allowing spencer and others like him, to have a special platform, the spread of disinformation, does it give them a platform to do it when they dont have to . Or does it provide more ways to disemanate it . I think this is a huge debate. So i defended spencers right to go to texas a m, i dont like what he has to say, i dont like his message, basically, sunshine is the best disinfectant, the way to fight this speech is with more speech and sort of expose him. Let him talk about what he believes in, its a losing argument in the long run. You can make an argument that hes using twitter and theyre using twitter to advance these pernicious ideas. Really customers of twitter, customers that twitter might want on that social media platform. Are going to be less likely to be in there. Twitters a private company, they can ban anybody they want. But we run into some problems. Again, spencers argument is. Its a utility. The government has to say the power to ban somebody from twitter, is the power to destroy. That thats how important they are to getting your message out. Its effectively censoring them, heres how i feel about it, its a weird sort of way. Philosophically speaking im against smoking bans in restaurants, but i like them, as a consumer, i dont want to go into a restaurant and smell smoke. I probably think you should be able to stay on there, but with him gone, it was kind of a nice place to be on twitter. I hear a lot of people now that say they dont want to even go on twitter any more. I wonder if its Good Business for twitter when there are people on when there are trolls on it, people who aspouse White Nationalism or hatred or any sort of ism that is annet thissic to american culture. I remember a time it was more fun to be on twitter. And you could engage in people. You cant do that any more. We could develop kind of a relationship. I tend not to do that as much any more, you get sort of caught up in this stuff. I think that from a business standpoint, but they need to be consistent, and heres the other problem again, as somebody whos a center right journalist, i think they need to were always cautious about censorship, because at what point do they decide that im preaching hate speech . You know what i mean . Its a slippery slope argument, if you can ban spencer, what about erick erickson, my friend erick erickson, hes probably im sure hes said some things that are controversial, should we ban him . That becomes a free speech problem, and it was Dennis Prager was talking about it on College Campuses. You know, dwiter shouldnt be like a safe space, we need to challenge each other with ideas and sometimes unpopular speech and you cant shut it down. This is a really tough i think twitters going to have to have a serious come to jesus meeting and decide, what they want this to be. I agree. Good conversation. Thank you, matt, see you soon. Thank you, when we comment back, the op ed writer who is charging donald trump is making us argue on a morning ourselves. . Its girls night they said business casual. I love summer weddings oh no. Yeah, maybe it is time. Maybe i should check my credit score. Try credit karma. Its free. Oh woah. Thats different. Check out credit karma today. Credit karma. Give yourself some credit. Come on, wake up come on, why ya sleepin . Come on what time is it . Its go time. Come on. Lets go, lets go, lets go. 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Can you explain what that is and why your op ed struck such a nerve . So gaslighting, it sounds like a term that a lot of people didnt know, which so gaslighting is to its a form of psychological abuse where the victim is manipulated to doubt their own sanity. Its kind of a complex concept, but a good example comes from the play, gaslight lauren, you write this, i hate to answer your own question. You said, to gaslight is to psychologically manipulate a person to the point where they question their own sanity. And thats precisely what donald interrupt is doing to this country. He gained traction in the election, while correcting himself, often without bothering to con seem the conflicts within his own sound bites. He lied to us over and over again, then took all accusations of his falsehoods and spun them into evidence of bias. Facts have become interchangeable with opinions. As our very eailty is called into question. Some people say this is you know, this is just the new way, were going to have to get used to donald trump doing things this way, its a new era, i take it you disagree with that . Yeah, i think thats very scary to think of this as the new way, i think that people are not empowered enough with information. I think that that that means on several levels, i think that the media but we need to focus more on original reporting. On painting portraits of events that are objective, and that arent just sort of streaming Donald Trumps disemenation of falsehoods directly into American Homes without checking them anyway. On an individual level, i think that people need to realize that it is not only their right to have access to information, but its in this state, that were in currently, its their able gas station to find trustworthy sources and to fact check everything. Especially everything on Donald Trumps twitter. You know, facts are the only place we can work from for any kind of resistance, theres a lot of talk now about fighting for human rights and social justice, thats the side i want to be on, we cant do any of that unless were moving from a place of truth. I want to look at another example here, which you write about, on friday night, the Trump Transition Team released this statement about president obama. These are the same people that said zam had weapons of mass destruction, the election ended a long time ago. Its now time to move on and make America Great again. Today trump tweeted this. Its hard to determine who is doing the hacking, why wasnt this brought up before the election. Both the statement and the tweet are inaccurate. Trump didnt win in one of the Biggest Electoral College victories. Can you determine who is doing the hacking after the fact. And concerns about hacking were brought up long before the election. So explain what you think he is doing here. Hes trying to turn facts into a partisan issue which is im a very liberal, very progressive person, and thats how i identify as a writer. I was trying to come from a place where i was able to speak to everyone. I think that the victim here is the american public. And i think that the a lot of the reason why donald trump won is because he divided this country. If hes able to capitalize on that, and force us to be arguing over what counts as facts. The cia works for the American People. To have the cia challenged as if theyre some silly blogger, that can be bullied and thrown to the deplorables is absurd. Its the president of the United States should want to know if russia is interfering in our election, right . And also, just theres so many sort of red hearings to take aim at, talking about russia for the first time now. No, we talked about russia in the first debate, the third debate was the no puppet, no puppet short circuiting. In his last press conference, he was egging russia on to hack hillarys e mails. Its almost like these sort of attention from the fact that the most powerful man, the soon to be most powerful man in the United States is dismissing the evidence demonstrated by the cia. Which is incredible danger to american freedom. And were sort of getting lost in semantics and were getting lost in these disputes about what is true, which is absurd, because we should all be able to agree about whats true, and from there, have ideological arguments. Its fascinating. You have a lot of people talking. Your article went viral. Thank you, i appreciate you joining us here on cnn. When we come back, the true crime story that became an american obsession, the murder of jonbenet ramsey. Family road trip fun check engine. Not fun but, youve got hum. Thats like driving with this guy. All you do is press this, and in plain english, coolant, youll know whats wrong. If you do need a mechanic, just press this. Thank you for calling hum. And if you really need help, help can find you, automatically, 24 7. Because you put this, in here. Hum by verizon. The technology designed to make your car smarter, safer and more connected. Put some smarts in your car. Fresh ingredients, tokyostepbystep recipies, delivered to your door for less than 9 a meal. Get 30 off your first delivery blueapron. Com cook. Even if youre trying your best. Along with diet and exercise, oncedaily toujeo® may help you control your blood sugar. Get into a daily groove. Lets groove tonight. Share the spice of life. Baby, from the makers of lantus®, slice it right. Toujeo® provides blood sugarlowering activity for 24 hours and beyond, were gonna groove tonight. Proven blood sugar control all day and all night, and significant a1c reduction. Toujeo® is used to control high blood sugar in adults with diabetes. It contains 3 times as much insulin in 1 milliliter as standard insulin. Dont use toujeo® to treat diabetic ketoacidosis, during episodes of low blood sugar or if youre allergic to insulin. Allergic reaction may occur and may be life threatening. Dont reuse needles or share insulin pens, even if the needle has been changed. The most common side effect is low blood sugar, which can be serious and life threatening. It may cause shaking, sweating, fast heartbeat, and blurred vision. Check your blood sugar levels daily. Injection site reactions may occur. Dont change your dose of insulin without talking to your doctor. Tell your doctor about all medicines you take and all your medical conditions. Taking tzds with insulins, like toujeo®, may cause Heart Failure that can lead to death, even if youve never had Heart Failure before. Dont dilute or mix toujeo® with other insulins or solutions as it may not work as intended and you may lose blood sugar control, which could be serious. Find your rhythm and keep on grooving. Lets groove tonight. Ask your doctor about toujeo®. Share the spice of life. It is a murder case that became an obsession across the country and the world. The death of 6yearold jonbenet ramsey. No one has ever been charged in the case. And the investigation is still open. Here with me now, details jean casarez, she has a brand new cnn special whats fascinating everyone about this case . I think because its a mystery, and you look at one theory, and then you look at the next theory, and in this we lay out the facts and i travel to a remote location to talk with john ramsay, the father who found her body. He doesnt do many interviews, but i spoke to him for hours. His thoughts, he flexions, i had the tough questions and its interesting to see his insights 20 years later. Lets watch a clip from the documentary. Police were desperate to talk to their prime suspects. After four months of refusing to cooperate, the ramsays finally sat down with police in april, 1997. Two more formal interrogations followed. Im talking about scientific evidence. I dont give a flying flip how scientific it is. Go back to the drawing board. I didnt do it. Despite countless days of heated interrogation, there was no confession and no charges. How about the theory that this was an accident . Somebody was upset over bed wetting . Going down the wrong path, buddy. This 100,000 reward then the ramsays took the case to the public. You may be eluding the authorities for a time, but god knows who you are, and we will find you. The police never did. My goodness, it brings back so many memories for those of us who were around. Her mother died. They lived under a crowd of suspicious for a long time. Were they ever indicted . The grand jury actually did vote unanimously to indict john and patsy ramsay, both of them on child abuse resulting in death and accessory after the fact, meaning they helped somebody to first degree murder. The District Attorney in history making for boulder, colorado, did not bring charges. John ramsay said he thought he was going to be indicted along with his wife, they had even given custody of their son to someone else because they believed that this was it for them. But the prosecutor did not believe it could be proven beyond all reasonable doubt. We go into forensic evidence, dna evidence. The grand jury never had it. I spoke to the forensic scientists that did dna testing. Its not Somebody Just looking at the numbers. She did the testing and the results that she explains are remarkable. Burke is their other child . Yes. And burke has come out for the first time, a lot of scrutiny with burke, because of a smile that he had, and john ramsay is very upset about that, he talks to me about that saying that that is burkes natural gaze, that hes a fine young man. He was nine when this happened. It was a horrendous, brutal crime, and youll hear the details of what happened to her, and that burke could not and did not do it. Other people believe otherwises. You spent a lot of time with john ramsay, how as he lived with the unknown for 20 years . It changed his life. He said he lost his reputation and all his money. He lost his privacy. Thats why he lives and he doesnt want people to know where he lives, and it took quite a while for us to get to where he is, but hes remarried. Hes moved on. I met his new wife, and it took a long time for him to find his new wife. She reminds me of what i think patsy would be like, exuberant, full of life, and hes got his children which he adores and a picture of jonbenet on his television. He said it reminds him daily he wants to track down the killer to restore the reputation of his family. And are Law Enforcement officials hopeful to solve this crime . Open investigation, open case. The District Attorney who i sat down with in boulder told me i need the evidence and need to believe i can prove it beyond a beyond a reasonable doubt, i will charge anyone who i believe committed this crime. I cant wait to see it. Thank you. Thank you. Dont miss our cnn special report tomorrow night at 9 eastern right here on cnn. And that is it for us tonight. Thank you for watching. Ill see you back here tomorrow. Good evening, thanks for joining us. We begin tonight with two pieces of breaking news from the trump transition. Just moments ago the president elect tweeting hell be making his long awaited secretary of state announcement tomorrow. That and he wants more time before telling the country how hes going to disentangle himself from his business empire. For weeks hes been promising a major announcement on the 15th which is thursday. Late today we learned it is being pushed back. Phil mattingly tonight joins us from trump tower with the latest. So first of all, secretary of state announcement tomorrow. We heard the name, rex