Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight With Don Lemon 20161206

Michael schlager murder case. A mistrial when jurors werent able to reach a verdict of an unarmed black man shot in the black by a white Police Officer. What we saw with our own eyes seems to be undeniable. Why couldnt jurors agree . Lets talk now. Anthony scott. Brother of walter scott and also Chris Stewart represents Walter Scotts family. Thank you for coming on. I appreciate it. Hi, don. How are you doing tonight . Anthony what is your reaction to the mistrial . Actually, im not doing very well, don. Im disappointed and based on what the evidence showed, they cannot come up with a verdict of guilty. I think she presented a very good case. On friday, the judge read a letter from a juror. Listen to this. As you stated, we must follow the instructions you have given us and the law. We all struggle with the death of a man and with all that has been put before us. I still cannot, without a reasonable doubt convict the defendant. At the same time, my heart does not want to have to tell the scott family that the man that killed their son, brother and father is innocent. But with the choices, i cannot and will not change my mind. When you heard those words, what was your reaction . It was upsetting, prior to the judge dismissing the six alternate jurors, he asked them if they were willing based on the evidence presented in the case to go further with the case. From the statement that that juror stated there, it sounds like he had a conflict. Hes saying that he hes saying hes innocent. And then hes saying hes guilty. He cant be both. So i think he should have made up his mind and chose what it actually was, a guilty man and convict him of murder. Chris, i find it interesting that you say you are not worried that you will get justice, and that this is just a delay . Scarlet wilson says that officer slager will be tried again. What do you expect the time line for a second trial to be . Hopefully soon. Charleston needs it, and the country needs it, this was a big missed opportunity to heal a lot of the pain in the community. Show the community that their lives matter. And show officers out there doing their job, they are not michael slager. It was a total fumble today. Justice delayed is justice denied, do you believe that . Or do you think in the end they will get justice . Justice delayed. He bought a few more months out of jail. He will end up behind prison bars where he deserves. I wonder what it was like to hear officer slager on the stand. What was it like . I wasnt there that day. That was the only day out of the whole trial that i missed. And i think it was gods meaning for me not to be there. I did watch it via the computer and just listening to him. His testimony did not match what actually happened. There was just lies there. And you could tell he was lying. Nothing was lining up. What he said happen, we didnt see happen, so it just didnt make any sense to me why the jurors cannot come to an agreement, based on all the evidence they had in front of them. Speaking of that, chris what do you think the jury saw differently than the public who sees this video and cant imagine any other verdict than guilty . Yeah. Well, weve heard from four sources, it was just one juror, its very obvious, its not just the videotape. Santana testified about what he saw before the videotape that there was no fight. Officer slager was never in danger, which is what his selfdefense angle was, it never should have happened. That one juror got on to the jury and already predetermined hes never going to put mr. Slager behind bars, which is a violation of his oath. There were 11 jurors, one was africanamerican. Do you think that was a fair representation of the community . I dont think it was a fair representation of the community. But it was what we got. And based on the judicial system, i felt comfortable with it, i thought we had the best case and the stronger case evidently we didnt have a Strong Enough case to get the conviction, were not losing hope. Were still trusting in god. And keeping the faith, its not over, were going to continue to seek justice and we will seek justice in this case. Thank you. Thanks, don. Thank you. I want to bring in harry houck. Laura coats. And jury consultant joe ellen demetrius. This is a tough and emotional case. This seems to have come down to one juror who could not convicted. Lawyers say they want someone on the jury who will stand up for their convictions and not be swayed by the pressure of the rest of the group. Is that what happened here . I think its very clearly what happened we dont know anything about this particular juror, what his background is, if there was a juror questionnaire. Very clearly, this was a gentleman who believed in whatever his particular persuasion was, and was not going to change his mind no matter what the pressure was being placed on, not only by his fellow jurors, but also by the judge. When the judge gives an allen charge, basically hes saying to the jury, look, folks, we have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars in this lawsuit. Another case would have to be tried if there is a mistrial, and you really need to go back and make a decision. And yet one man for whatever reason stood up and said, no, i cannot go with a vote of guilt. Can you i heard this referred to as a stealth juror, can you explain what that is, and whether it fits this case . Certainly, don a stealth juror is someone who comes in who may be hiding information about their background. Maybe he has Law Enforcement in his background. Maybe something happened in his life that he did not share or the attorneys did not ask the right question door the voir dire process, and they come into the jury with one thing in mind and in his case, a person could say, his preconception was to acquit this particular officer. Thats generally what a stealth juror is. On friday it appeared there was one hold out juror. What do you think happened with this jury . I think the weekend was a time for them to reflect further, youre seeing what happens when juries are con fronted with the idea of a Police Officer on trial. One of the key questions that every prosecutor and defense attorney will ask in a voir dire is whether the jury will give more weight to the testimony of an officer over a civilian. The answer usually is yes. People are going to give a lot more weight to the officer, when the officer is a defendant. There is this level of increduality. They say i dont want to believe someone in uniform would do this. What piqued my interest the most is a statement based on the choices i have, i cant convict. What seemed to me, you had a juror who said, i dont feel comfortable with the homicide or murder charge. Theres much less for this particular officer. Its interesting. Do you think the jury was do you think the charges were correct against the officer . I think they were, but i think one of the strategic airers the prosecution may have made was that they originally came in with a murder charge. They then allowed the jury to hear a voluntary manslaughter charge. Different charge based on the intent of the officer. Maybe theres some reason to doubt that there is some basis to just have a straight murder charge. You saw that evidence by the fact that the jurors then asked today, well, why did you give us the manslaughter charge to consider as opposed to murder, it was very telling. I also find it interesting, you said from the start, you could not condone the shooting. Correct. This is what slager said often the stand, and then well talk about it. In my mind fear, with everything leading up to this with the run, to not cooperating, the fight on the ground. Mr. Scott coming after me while we were on the ground in the chest area coming at me again. Cold fear that mr. Scott didnt stop, continued to come toward me. Unarmed, running away from the officer, not toward him does his defense any sense . He doesnt have much of a defense at all. Im shocked we didnt get a conviction in this case. That video is so clear, i think what might have happened is either the judge who gave them the information regarding the laws and the stipulations of the laws, may have done something wrong for all i know. Maybe the District Attorney didnt make his case good enough. The fact is, we had 11 jurors that were for conviction, and one against it. Thats the problem with jurors, you never know how people are going to think. To me, and to any Police Officer watching this video and watching this trial, you got to say to yourself, this is a bad shoot. This officer needs to go to jail for what he did. I dont know what was going on when he fired at that man. Ive been in that situation. You said youve been in the situation. A million times so what do you think the root problem is here, was it bad training . He said he was in fear. Often times, thats what happens in these cases. Most times i was in fear, i was in fear for my life. He may have been in fear in his own mind. He did not have the law says you cannot shoot at a fleeing felon. Its basically, he did not have a weapon in his hand. The fact that even in the video, officer slager went back and picked something up and put it down down near the body. You could see clearly even the way hes trying to articulate in the trial what his fear was. Im sitting there thinking, what in the hell is this guy talking about . You know, nothing makes any sense to a Police Officer who has been through this type of thing before. Does this show the difficulty, laura in convicting an officer in these types of cases. You have Supreme Court precedent that allows deference to officers that defines whats a sense of fear. As harry talking about, as anybody with eyes saw the videotape looks at and sees a man 18 feet apart from the officer when hes first shot. Its hard to believe theres reasonable fear. Not only does the Supreme Court get that deference, every day civilians on the jury will say to themselves, i have do believe a different narrative here. That seems at odds with what we believe. Thats why its so frustrating. Reasonable doubt has to first be reasonable. Its not beyond all shadow of any scintilla of evidence. Its whats reasonable here. Its clear it was not a reasonable defense, but themes the breaks when it comes to juries. You have to have uninimity. And in this case, with a new trial, with a new jer, you will be able to achieve that one way or another. Thank you very much. I appreciate it. Coming back to hear from are Donald Trumps cabinet tryouts the greatest political reality show ever . vo its the holidays at verizon, and the best deals are on the best network. both yes vo with no surprise overages, you can use your data worry free and even carry over the data you dont use. And right now get four lines and 20 gigs for only 40 per line. And, just for the holidays, buy the motoz play droid absolutely free. No tradein required. I love you in that, no, i love you in that. No, i love you in that vo hurry, these offers end soon. Get the best deals and the best network, only on verizon. Donald trump working to fill his cabinet. Tapping ben carson to run the department of housing and urban development. This is a transition like none weve seen before. Heres deborah feyerick. Reporter its arguably the greatest political reality show of all time, hosted by one time reality tv star, now president elect. Facing very real responsibilities. Like all great reality shows, the trump transition features alliances, plot twists and cliffhangers. The real part of the art of it is creating the right all the of suspense, the right amount of drama to keep people engaged. Watching this transitioning, it feels like its being plotted meticulously. Rather than official press conferences. Contestants parade past a golden backdrop. A live set as cameras role on potential cabinet secretaries and advisers, before they ascend to the inner sanctom of the booth. I apologized for it, i paid a very heavy price for it, and ive learned from it. Its not just people, its places. Take china and taiwan. Taiwan getting in the first phone call and rangeling its parent nation china. Trump up ending decades of protocol. Tweeting, taiwan called me. Trump is our first reality tv president elect. He knows how to give something worth watching. Immunitity challenges are also in play. Early trump supporters, Chris Christie and Rudy Giuliani seem to have a white house job virtually in the bag. But christie, the rival turned ally left the island. Trumps son in law Jared Kushner reportedly banishing christie for convicting his father on tax evasion and Illegal Campaign donations. And reportedly failing to let him out 28 days early, according to vanity fair. In the meantime, Rudy Giulianis hope for secretary of state seems to be fading in a growing pool of contenders. The president elect recently taking a fresh look admit romney, bachelor style at a candlelight dinner. Kelly ann conway, taking her fight against romney public. He went so far out of his way to hurt donald trump. Which may explain romney rival john hunts man. A fellow billionaire appearing so quickly on scene. Youre fired. Giving way to new ones. Disaster. All like disasters. Donald interrupt has cast himself as the president elect. Hes an ideal tv villain. The trump transition leaving a divided nation with cliffhangers. Threatening not to accept the Election Results if he lost. To seducing his audience and winning them over. On television, the worst thing that happens, you disappear. You get voted off the island or you get fired, but whats happening right now has real and potentially dire consequences. Theres a danger, don, in blurring the lines between whats real and whats not. Whats real is diplomacy, longstanding policy and protocol. Its a world in which snubs can have serious consequences. Don . Deborah, thank you very much. The trump transition has its cliffhangers, the president elect saying only he knows the finalists for top positions. [ male announcer ] eligible for medicare . Thats a good thing, but it doesnt cover everything. Only about 80 of your part b medical expenses. The rest is up to you. So consider an aarp Medicare Supplement insurance plan, insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company. Like all standardized Medicare Supplement insurance plans, they could save you in outofpocket medical costs. Call today to request a free decision guide. With these types of plans, youll be able to visit any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients. Plus, there are no networks, and virtually no referrals needed. Join the millions who have already enrolled in the only Medicare Supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp. And provided by unitedhealthcare insurance company, which has over 30 years of experience behind it. With all the good years ahead, look for the experience and commitment to go the distance with you. Call now to request your free decision guide. The president elect takes office in 46 days. Right now, the spotlight is on trump tower where hes interviewing a parade of cabinet hopefuls. In a process that looks more and more like reality tv every day. Cnn political commentator alice stewart. A republican political consultant the. Im going to tell my corny story about dinner last night. I overheard the table next to me, every day, one day i expect whoever gets the cabinets nod to be given a rose in the lobby of trump tower. It was a group of older people. You know what, theyre kind of right. Does that seem right to you, alice . It could totally happen. I would not be surprises if we come out of trump tower and see donald trump handing out roses to whoever is one of the top picks. Thats completely doable. You think its completely doable. Hes a reality tv star, he owned the Miss Universe competition. Does it surprise you it looks more and more like a Reality Tv Show every day. No. Every decision he makes, hes fully cognizant of the spectacle of it. Thats what he does, so by having all of these different candidates for secretary of state, he not only gives himself the ability to sort of be at the top of this apprentice like or bachelor like reality show. Do you want mitt romney or jo jo, whos going to get the final rose. He gets to command the narrative, he gets to buy the media narrative, distract the attention away from some of the more pressing issues going on in his campaign. And he gets to bring in ez all these candidates and humble them. Lets say mitt romney goes back to being a critic of donald trump. Trump gets to say, he was much more conciliatory when he came to have dinner with me those few times in new york. Its a strategic move what hes doing. Speaking of mitt romney, you say that in this game what we call a transition survivor. Mitt romney got a reprieve last week. He got a second chance. He got to have dinner. Don amd trump clearly cares about personalities and relationships and those types of things. I have to be honest with you, why is this a surprise to anybody that this is a Reality Tv Show. Weve seen this for two years. I think its kind of refreshing. We see who all the candidates are. First it was going to be gingrich, then Chris Christie, then it turned out to be pence. I think this is kind of fun to see, these are all people who are credible people. I dont see a problem with any of this. I dont think were saying its a problem. Its just interesting, its like a reality show. Even last week when he went to that rally in ohio. I want to save the suspense for next week, but he let the cat out of the bag. I think youre right. He didnt let the cat out of the bag, he knew we reported it as breaking news on cnn a minute later. I think thats a smart thing to do. Theres also the aspect of, he likes the theater of it. But in his defense, cameras are everywhere, everywhere you go, whether youre walking outside trump tower or his golf course, hes playing to the camera and feeding the narrative, at the end of the day, while this is great conversation and great talk for television, voters and people dont care about the vetting process, they care about the picks and what theyre going to do to improve their lives. Look at the people hes picked. Theyre talking about replacing obama care. We have others with regard to session. Hes picking good qualified people, and we have to note, hes way ahead of schedule, much further ahead of president s in the past. I think you have to give him a little credit. Its a lot of fun to make light of the situation as being very productive and getting good hes being lauded by some of those people or for picking some of those people. For others, theyre more controversial. Theres a sense here that what is driving Donald Trumps Decision Making, if whats driving it is a sense of spectacle, saying, this candidate looks right for the part, that does not bode well for his Decision Making process as president of the United States. Now, i will say, bringing in a lot of people, having a transparent selection process, thats all great, bringing in certain rivals, thats all great, but the Decision Making would be the best secretary of state, not how can i put on this spectacle, whos going to be the winner or who might look best or appear to be the best secretary of state. You said people dont care about the process, do you think theyre annoyed by the process at all . Would they rather just hear about it and see the show . This has helped, its refreshing and it gives them something to talk about . I think people are really not interested in the day to day in and out and the turnstile at trump tower right now whos going in, and waiting to get the rose or the candlelight dinner like mitt romney, they really just want the cliff notes at the end of the day. Whos getting what pick and who will trump be talking to tomorrow. We have the tease for tomorrow already. Well see a promo throughout the day. Its funny, every day its a way of keeping the narrative on hand. Theres other news to cover, but then someone else walks in to trump tower. In the early days of transition, people started chattering about who his picks would be. Very organized process, i decide on cabinet and many other decisions. I am the only one who knows who the finalists are. What does it tell you about his views of this process . I think theres some truth to it, hes given a lot of candidates and then he narrows it down. Its not like so far he said, hey, i want so and so from season two of the apprentice to be my attorney general. All of these people have been credible people. The one thing they have in common, they are not yes men and women, they are people who are very independent thinking, and i think he likes that, lets be clear, theres a whole team helping him get to those finalists, and theyre going through a vetting process, so by the time they get to donald trump, theyre pretty credible and theyre qualified. We slu say about this team, part of the reason this process is taking so long, is because that team is divided. There are a lot of people who believe that donald trump should pick someone whos helped him out throughout his campaign, whos supported him from the beginning, who represents this outsider, maybe even channel some of that populous anger that steve bannon does. There are other people who say, no, youre president of the United States now, you need to be president for all people and make a more responsible decision, thats where you see him going after the likes of mitt romney. We saw that to play off the reality show a little bit. The alliances like they did on the different reality shows, formed different alliances, weve had some of the picks that have come up, mitt romney being one, weve had certain trump team members who have formed alliances for or against certain people, thats natural. These are people that they know who they would like, they are certainly making recommendations, they know at the end of the day, its Donald Trumps decision. Hes picking quality people now, but thats this part of the elimination process, and the next round when there are other maybe some advisers, maybe it will be season two of the apprentice, who knows, you never know with donald trump. I want to ask you this, before we have to go. You get calls from people who are disappointed theyre not being considered for the administration. Why are they telling you that . I like a lot of other people that have clients are saying, hey, can you get me in there, id really like to be considered for x, y, z or ambassadorship or whatever. These are a lot of people tripping over themselves who werent on board with donald trump. I think its interesting, donald trump is not keeping a litmus test of youre with me or you werent. Ronnie is not the best example of that. Is that whats going on here, youre throwing your hat into the ring . Ill speak for you, john. I think youre good. Thank you, i appreciate all of you. The real life consequences of fake news. An armed man bursts into a washington, d. C. , peetsz rhea, and its all because of a wild conspiracy theory. A man armed with an Assault Rifle bursts into a washington, d. C. , pizzeria yesterday. He claimed he was there to selfinvestigate an outrageous and completely false online conspiracy theory. An imagined pedophile ring being run out of the pizzeria. Edgar madison welsh, its a case of real life consequences of fake news. My cnn political commentators join me. Good evening to all of you. You have been talking a lot about fake news during this election. This is a prime example of what can happen when people latch on to these conspiracy theorys. Is there a way to keep this fake news from circulating and inspiring these extremist views . This is the question i dread this is a hard question, it doesnt have a satisfied answer right now. There are lots of things individuals can do. Some things that newsrooms can do. I didnt take pizza gate seriously, when it started to come out in early november i thought it was so ludicrous, so disgusting, people trying to link her to a pedophilia ring. I just dismissed it. Maybe i shun the have. Maybe we should have tried to debunk it more clearly early on. Buzz feed did good work on that. There are steps we can take, there are no satisfying answers to this hard problem. Thats hard, because you give life to it. During the campaign there were some rational people who i thought before they started believing these things that were mark, dont you agree, its like, you cant possibly believe that, and they did. Right, the amazing thing is how committed people can be to holding on to a position, despite all evidence to the contrary, you have a belief in something, or you want to believe something to be true, you can debunk the story, challenge the story, give as much life to the story as you want. There are people who will still tweet the story and argue the story down. This trump moment is a post fact moment. We dont care what the facts are, we want to believe what we want to believe, regardless of what the facts say. Thats very, very dangerous. Thats not just true on the right either. There are lots of liberals who want to believe lies as well. Absolutely. Theres a lot of talk about this on the right right now, its a bipartisan problem. Peter, you look flummoxed. Its a bipartisan problem, we have the spector of the trump potential National Security adviser being someone who sent out a tweet suggesting that Hillary Clinton was involved in sex crimes with children, and his son who is now part of the transition has been repeatedly sending out these tweets. Last i checked, there was no National Security adviser who was sending out those kinds of tweets. Right now were in a really unprecedented situation, where not only are these conspiracy theorys, you have Donald Trumps National Security advisory and his son who are actually propagating them. I want to ask you about this, hes talking about mike flynns son. Until pizza gate is proven to be false, it will remain what do you make of this . Michael flynns son should not have sent out that tweet or given that story any sort of legs or legitimacy. The pizzeria definitely has what i would see as a libel suit on their hands. I appreciate the Washington Post for once pointing out new nuance. Michael flynn the elder was referring to something completely different from pizza gate. Whether he should have gone down that road is an open question. Good for the Washington Post to point out there is a difference that mike flynn the National Security adviser was not promoting pizza gate. His son should not have done it. He also, general flynn has promoted conspiracy theorys in the past. Nypd blows whistle on new hillary emails. Must read, so he wasnt according to the Washington Post, and you, it wasnt this particular one, he is still National Security adviser to be the National Security adviser and hes still promoting conspiracy theorys. S athe Washington Post said he was not promoting, this is a quote from them, a full blown conspiracy theory, he was asking questions that sources like the New York Post were asking. I think theres a difference when you ask questions that newspapers were asking. Then floating a baseless conspiracy theory. Like the 9 11 truther theory, which i would love for peter bineart to disown from his wing ive never had any connection in my life in anyway to the 9 11 youre a leftist, so yeah, if you want to implicate the right with this. No, kayleigh this is a bizarre red herring. What were talking about, what don was asking about, the guy thats going to be National Security adviser, youre right, its a different allegation of Hillary Clinton involved with pedophilia, but the question is, especially when you have a candidate like donald trump who shoots from the hip like this. Do you really no, no, let me finish. Do you want a National Security adviser whos sending out news links accusing the democratic candidate of being linked with pedophilia. A charge in which is totally absurd. Peter, every time youre confronted with a difficult question, you call it a bizarre red herring. It was i have no never in my life. As a main street leftist, you have to confront the extremist on your side and your party, those are 9 11 truthers, Michael Moore. If you want to have me talk about the extremists in my party. Michael moore is not a Senior Adviser or going to be part of any campaign or administration. Go ahead, mark. Hes a prominent leftist. But the conversation here isnt whether prominent leftists have opinions we disagree with. I wouldnt put Michael Moore in the box you just did. This is a question of whether senior level advisers in a president ial administration. The National Security adviser. Of all things, the National Security adviser. If susan rice walked in the building and said, i dont think 9 11 happened or snapple is created by the kkk to defertilize black folk, these kinds of things are circulating in the white house, we would think it was bonkers. The problem is the Trump Administration is normalizing these narratives. At a time when donald trump has tweeted things that are baseless and absurd. You have a president who himself is a birther. That himself speaks to the challenge here. Why i say were in a post fact moment. Earlier today on cnn i said, trumps a conspiracy theorist. They got picked up by blogs or websites. Saz if that was a surprising statement. Its just a fact. You might say its okay. Trump is many things, hes beloved by many people. Hes many things, one of the things he is is a conspiracy theorist. We saw that last wyche, millions of people voted illegally. Thats a conspiracy theory. Theres no proof of it. Were talking about opinions here as well as facts. We should have opinions flourish. I want the Michael Moores of the world and the general flynns of the world to share all their opinions on twitter. But weve got to figure out ways to come together on some of the facts, at least just some of the facts. Why people are so uncomfortable right now, 27 days after the election, it feels like were partially pro opposed truth. Hopefully were not all opposed truth at this point. But it feels like were in a post truth world. Paul ryan, when confronted about Donald Trumps claims, no one has found any evidence for. Would not condemn it. Thats whats remarkable. You have republicans who were during the campaign willing to stand up to donald trump, who were caving in. You say as the daily show put it, its the enablers that are worse than donald trump, they actually enable him without even saying. Without even having the backbone to tell him the truth about himself . The republicans are running washington right now. Physical someone is going to stand up to donald trump when he says things that are dangerous, its going to have to be people like paul ryan and theyre not doing it. All right well be right back. vo its the holidays at verizon, and the best deals are on the best network. both yes vo with no surprise overages, you can use your data worry free and even carry over the data you dont use. And right now get four lines and 20 gigs for only 40 per line. And, just for the holidays, get a Samsung Galaxy s7 edge for only 15 per month. No tradein required. I love you in that, no, i love you in that. No, i love you in that vo hurry, these offers end soon. Get the best deals and the best network, only on verizon. I want to talk about trumps pick for secretary of housing on urban development, ben carson, a neuro surgeon and many say on paper he lacks significant experience in housing and urban development what do you think of the move . I think he means well. The question is what are his qualifications . His own close advisor Armstrong Williams said earlier he didnt think that carson would take the job because he doesnt have any experience running a government agency, and he hasnt shown any expertise in housing and urban development housing. I would love to be surprised, but besides the fact that he grew up poor, what qualifies him for this job . Lets put up the tweet youre talking about or what he said. Im sorry, its what he said. Arm strong williams, hes never run an agency and its a lot to ask. Thats not his strength. The last thing he would want to do is take a position that could cripple the presidency. How do you respond to that, kayleigh . I think hes extremely qualified. Not only does he have a passion for this because he grew up in poverty and worked his way out of it. Not only that, but this is a world class neuro surgeon. He had a Leadership Award for being one of the greatest leaders in his field. He sat on the board of Companies Like kellogg. He was the head at Johns Hopkins of the neuro science center. He devised the first method to separate conjoined twins. Hes a leader and compassion. The experts in washington clearly arent doing their job and theyre not getting it done. Lets give a shot to someone who is one of the most extraordinary minds i think we have. Mark . Wait a minute. Im just baffled by this. First of all, you said hes extremely qualified. And then you explained the ways hes a talented neuro surgeon. To that doesnt qualify you to head hud. Hes a great leader. Wouldnt he be more qualified to be the head of health and human surgeons than he would be to housing and urban development . Absolutely. Leadership skills are not transferable. You know . The lebron james is the leader of the cavaliers. It doesnt mean theyre the leader of housing development. He, himself, said i dont know how to run an office or a bureau or have any experience in government. If he says that himself, why do you choose him to be the leader of one of the most significant departments in america . I think his own comments against the job is notable. I do think leadership skills are transferable, though. Some are. Some are not. Coming out of poverty doesnt make you qualified. Coming out of Public Housing doesnt make you qualified to run Public Housing. By that logic half of black america should be the head of hud. But mark, the leaders in the experts you extol are the ones who gave us the sub prime housing crisis, one of the greatest foreclosure crisises weve seen in the history. These are the experts . Lets give ben carson a chance. No, those experts this is the logic that i find so baffling. Its like, yes, people in government who actually have experience may have made really big mistakes. Just like people who know how to fly airplanes sometimes screw up and get it wrong. Its not an argument for taking people who have never flown an airplane and putting them in the cockpit. But theyve been on a plane. Its not an argument for putting people with no experience in these jobs. [ laughter ] ben carson said the guy thats on the plane before. Nancy pelosi calls ben carson a disturbingingly unqualified choice. What do you say . Pass. Go ahead, mark. What do you make of that. Shes absolutely right. Everything else i said tonight aside, theres another fundamental challenge. Ben carson made his bones as a republican speaker but talking about how he doesnt believe the government should be supporting people in the ways hud has been designed to do so. Its hard for him to push forward the Public Housing if he doesnt believe the government should have that relationship to its citizens. To me its a backwards role for him. Hes not the right fit for this. There are so many better people. I agree with peter. Lets hope its not a joke, actually. Its an important job. Mark, youre on fire tonight. Sorry about that. Anyway. Thank you all. I appreciate it. Thats it for us tonight. Thank you for watching. Ill see you right back here tomorrow. Why are you checking your credit score . I think we can finally get a bigger place. Hey hey ahhhh. Charades . Yeah, let me check my score too. Try credit karma. Its free. Check out credit karma today. Credit karma. Give yourself some credit. President elect trump widens his search for cabinet picks again. Could the coo of exxon mobile be the frontrunner for the top job at the state department . The death toll rising in oakland. Now the city wants to know if the deadliest fire was caused by a criminal act . A mistrial in the case of the cop who shot an unarmed black man in the back. Good morning. Welcome to early