Is too young for your kids to learn about racism . One top new York City School is starting with children as young as 8 and some parents are outraged. Can racism be stopped in the third grade . But i want to begin this broadcast tonight with new developments in that deadly biker brawl. Cnns kyung lah live for us in waco this morning. Good evening, kyung. So many bikers charged from opposing gangs and each being held on 1 million bond. How are Law Enforcement, how are they handling these guys right now . Reporter well to quote the sheriff, line em up. Thats essentially what theyre doing. This is all happening inside the jail. 170 of them. You can imagine the logistical challenge. What they had to do they lined them up here they brought them to the jail they had to book them charge them and make sure that each of them was arraigned. All of this happening inside the jail. The sheriff today also defending a 1 million bail on each of these suspects. Heres what he told us. Is this a message to the other biker gangs from this county . Very definitely. You know you want to cause this kind of trouble, you want to come into Mclennan County and stab people shoot people beat them up you need to think twice. You need to do it somewhere else. Reporter at last check, the sheriff says that none of the people who have been arrested have managed to come up with the bond. Don . Kyung, i understand police are still searching the scene and still uncovering evidence. What can you tell us about that . Reporter what weve been seeing is really a process. Every minute they appear to be going through each of these individual cars. You can still see that there are still some cars left in the parking lot. All of this is still from the sunday shooting. Theyre going into every single car, and theyre pulling out a catch cache of weapons. Theyre continuing to pull out long rifles, were seeing handguns. This is on top of the handguns theyve already recovered, the knives the chains with padlocks on them. So the 100plus weapons that they said that they had already recovered, that number is climbing don. And kyung, what are you learning about the bikers killed in sundays massacre . Any new information about that . Reporter there was a preliminary autopsy report that was released today. The Waco Police Department have asked us to refrain from reporting the names, but we have learned a few details. Every single one of the nine bikers who was killed was killed by a gunshot wound. And they are all between the ages of 27 to 65. Kyung lau reporting to us from waco. Thank you very much. I want to talk with steve cook who worked undercover in a gang and executive director of the midwest outlaw motorcycle gang investigators association. Also billy queen is a retired atf agent and the author of under and alone, the true story of the undercover agent that infiltrated a motorcycle gang. So here we are, another night, billy, were hearing people say today that this violence is probably not over. That in the biker world, once a war starts it never ends. So what happens next . Well ive heard that too. I think things are going to cool down because the eyes of the nation are on texas right now. And although the bikers do a lot of stupid stuff, theyre not that stupid. Theyre not stupid enough to go out and start shooting Police Officers especially other gangsters, while everybody in the countrys watching them. But they shot at Police Officers when this all happened. What makes you think that that wont happen again . Well it was a very emotional time and when a melee starts then things are out of control. Right now, things are a bit back in control. So doing a premeditated act against police even against other bikers right now, with the entire country watching is just going its going to be easy to put them in jail. They know that. I want to ask you its probably going to subside for a while, but its not over. You said its not over. When you were undercover with the atf, your name was billy streetjohn and you know all about this. Do you think there were undercover agents in the gang from sundays brawl . You know i dont know about that. It would surprise me if the Law Enforcement didnt have some people there, gathering intelligence either inside that restaurant or outside, that would be a normal process for Law Enforcement to have somebody inside not necessarily undercover but people that can mix in and just gather intelligence. Listen and hear whats going on. I would be surprised if there werent some that were in there. Terry, lets talk about the 170 members that were being held on 1 million bond each. Each of them on organized crime charges. Ive heard this both ways most of the active members arent involved in organized crime. What is it . Are most gang members actively involved in organized crime . Well theyre an organization that is involved in crime. You cant be a member of a motorcycle gang and not be involved in violence. One of the reasons those people stood and fought and shot at each other because they were in a gang. You were expected to do that you live or die for the gang so thats what they do. What will it be like with all these guys together in jail . And apparently its a little bit of a challenge, i hear to book them all and keep them separate. So whats that challenge like . Im not an expert in corrections. Ive been there on mass arrests, where weve locked up 50 to 80 motorcycle gang members and you do have to keep them separated. Im sure their correctional people know that. They deal with gangsters all the time. But in this case you have a heightened sense of problems because these guys hate each other, and theyll use surrogates to get to each other. Yeah. Steve, we keep hearing that this may all have started over patches worn on bikers jackets. The bandidos gang apparently say this is part of texas and took offense to the cossachs wearing a texas patch. Do you believe that . I believe that. Territory is extremely important. Anybody thats claiming a state theyre claiming what goes on in that state. Theyre claiming ownership of it. And texas has always been a red and gold state. Its always been bandido controlled and for a group like the cossacks to step up to them its basically like a slap in the face to them saying we dont respect you. Were equal to you and we are as much entitled to this state as you are. You guys heard billy say that he doesnt believe theres going to be anymore violence like there was, that no one will be shooting at Police Officers and so on. Do you guys agree with that . I agree with that. I dont think these guys are that stupid to do that. Terry . I agree that you wont see overt, in my opinion, violence. But youve got to understand it. There are people who will try to curry favor with these gangs that will do something violence and try to use that to step into the gang or step up in the gang. Anytime anybody tells me theyre going to hurt me i believe them. Is this the same as street gangs where they have a nosnitching policy . Is this their code as well terry . Absolutely. If youre a snitch theres phrases like snitches get stitches but theyre also going to kill them. Weve had informants in other cases that have been severely injured or killed. Ive had informants who have had their houses burned down. They do not tolerate informants. Steve, do you want to weigh in on that . Terrys absolutely right. Youll see one of a couple of things happen. Youll tell whos hardcore and whos not, now that the smokes kind of settled a little bit. Youre going to have members of both organizations, i can assure you, that are going to roll their patches. Some of these guys that arent as hard as the others the, are going to look at this and say, you know what . I like to get high i like to chase women, and i dont mind a fistfight, but murder was never part of the plan. So you may have some guys step away on both sides of the equation but like terry was saying youre also going to have associates and support club members that may look at the fact that say, hey, im in a subordinate club to the bandidos right now, but if i were to hunt one of these guys and take them out some place off the grid so to speak, i could definitely move myself up into the organization and fill a gap that now exists with a lot of people locked up in jail. Gentleman, thank you very much. Steve, billy, and terry, appreciate your expertise on this. We have much more to come on this subject tonight. When we come back a man who knows a lot about life inside a biker gang. Dwayne dog chapman. And race and kids. How young is too young to teach children about racism. 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Visit the dream machine event today for up to 3,500 towards purchase. Love in the nation, whats precious to you is precious to us. Love is strange so when coverage really counts you can count on nationwide. We put members first. Join the nation. Nationwide is on your side deadly violence that exploded in waco sunday was a shock to a lot of people who think wirkbiker gangs are a thing of the past. I want to talk about the culture of these gangs with dwayne dog chapman. As a teenager he was a member of the devils disciples, a motorcycle gang in arizona. Now he stars in cmts dog and beth on the hunt. Whos the boss you or beth . I know you heard me offcamera. Im the boss. But you know, im the boss but you know television. So she tries to be. Lets talk real life now, dog. You joined the devils disciples when you were just 15 years old and thats how you actually got the name dog. How did you react to sundays deadly brawl when you heard about it . Well, one thing that hasnt changed is you know, the biker wars. Its kind of like the hatfields and mccoys. It is you know, everyones calling them gangs, and i appreciate steve, billy, and terry saying that but its more the clubs were talking about now are more organized. So theyre organizations. When you say gang ss, you think of small street thugs. These are organizations. Theyre not just gangs. You call them you said you think of small street thugs, most everyone i know i have heard the media call these guys thugs. Do you consider them thugs . Well you know, no i dont car them thugs. I mean theres some morality in them. The shootout is terrible. They need to get somewhere down there right now to negotiate. Because they are smart, they will negotiate, they will make a deal. You dont, you know, spit in the wind pull on supermans cape and you dont wear colors from another club into a town worth thats already been claimed by another club. Unless youre trying to start a war. So the sheriff is doing right, 1 million bail. I dont know if that will stick too long. The only thing you can do in that town is no colors. The back of the jacket is again, what your guys, your experts talk the name of the club the jacket itself is what they die for. The only way you can solve this is like they used to do it years ago, we were not allowed to wear our colors inside a city limit. I wont tell you what city that was, so we didnt go to that city. You know what you need to do right now, if you outlaw these guys and they cant be you know organized crime, youve got to say, if you come into this county Mclennan County you better not be flying any kind of colors and thats it. The only kind of colors well let you fly is on the ice cream trucks and that will stop them. So its incumbent upon, you say, the municipalities or the city officials to stop it and put up a rule or law that says you cannot wear these colors right . Absolutely. The sheriff can do in texas, the sheriff is in charge of his county. So if he says you know makes an administrative order, that right now during this war right here like he said take it somewhere else. Youre not doing it in texas. So during this war down here if you have any kind of colors on and you cross that county line, youre going to jail. I mean thats you know, amazing. So heres the thing. You said that you know, people are calling these guys you said theyre a bit more organized than what they are portraying. So was it about organized crime . Is it about camaraderie . What is the real mission here. Im hearing some people say, no you know were not really a gang. We dont really do bad things. Weve weeded them out. But if you look at what happened this weekend, it looks pretty terrible. What is the real mission here . Well i think what happened this weekend looks terrible. Something went off, okay. Some bad mistakes. I also heard, i have my sources that were at the scene, and it sounded like some cops were doing some shooting also. So it went bad. It started inside with fisttofist worked its way out, somebody pulled a gun, and its on when you have that many organized people together like that biker gangs. Biker groups. You know its very sad that it happened. Every one of them is not like that. But someone started it. You dont do that. There are certain things you dont do you dont wear colors from another gang into an area a state, a city, a county that other motorcycle clubs have sore youre looking for trouble. Youre going there for trouble. So they deliberately wanted to provoke a fight. And thats what you believe. Because you believe that someone came in from another town a biker gang that wasnt invited to twin peaks and they showed up and thats what started it. Is that what youre hearing . What im hearing is exactly that. Now, years ago, i dont know of course about today, but if we travelled from state to state, county to county there were certain places where we showed respect, we took our jackets off, and we rode through there. Because we didnt want to die or get in a shootout or kill someone. In the state of texas, youre looking at 99 years for murder. There are going to be a lot of guys fall for this. But that does not detour you ask, is this brotherhood . A lot of biker gangs today are put together with a lot of military. This brotherhood, this loyalty started back in the 50s in the military. A lot of thaezese guys are very integrity intelligent and they were trained by the military. These are brothers with different mothers. This is like blood. They are thick. They are really in it for the camaraderie and then something goes bad. Its like you have eight brothers that are all blood brothers and you walk down and flip the bird to one of them. Those brothers are going to stick together. Thats exactly what the gang the organizations are. And thats what people are dog . Im sorry, go ahead. But these brothers though they are still finding weapons from this weekend. I mean if this is about camaraderie, why do you need to be loaded and armed to the hilt . Why . I mean that doesnt seem to be about camaraderie . Well believe it or not, people go out together shooting. They dont shoot other people. They go out together either hunting or shooting targets. Its a man i guess its a manly thing. I mean. I havent been able to touch a weapon for 38 years, because im a felon. But before that i used to like to go shooting with my brothers. Wed make a target and its something that wed do. That doesnt mean that theyre criminals. You know theres outlaw motorcycle gangs in america. There are also they call them american motorcycle association, which is gangs, you know like the shriners. They all have harleys and they stick together. Its just something that goes with the outlaw persona, is the guns the knives the chain belts, thats just something. But they dont go out like you know robbing banks and shooting innocent babies and stuff like that. Again, its like the hatfields and mccoys. There are certain rules in america that you live by and when someone breaks someone tries to start a beef and nine men are dead. And luckily, theres not more dead or you know, theyve got a tough sheriff in that county or there would be a lot more dead. Dog, i appreciate your candor and thank you for coming on. Youre the only person who has offered a solution and that is its incumbent upon the sheriff and Law Enforcement to say, dont bring this crap into my county or into my town or city. Thank you, dog. Ill be watching. Yes, sir. Youre welcome. Thank you very much. When we come right back some people say there is a double standard in the way we talk about the waco brawl compared to ferguson and baltimore. 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Well this summer, stay with Choice Hotels twice and get a 50 gift card you can use for just about anything. Go you always have a choice. Book now at choicehotels. Com its going to be interesting, because theyre already going at it the panel, that is. The people who burned and looted in baltimore were called thugged, but what about the violent bikers in waco . Lets talk about it with harry hauk a cnn Law Enforcement analyst and a former new York City Police detective. Charles blow cnn political commentator and sally cohn cnn political commentator, progressive activist and columnist, whose last column on cnn. Com says the waco coverage shows a double standard on race. What are you trying to start . Are you trying to start a revolution . Yeah a revolution that would end in everyone in this country being treated fairly by both our expectations and our system including Law Enforcement and the media, yes. Call me a radical. Youve talked about in your column and you tweeted and said muslim only has to attack one person to be a terrorist. Threaten attack right. A black man just has to be killed by cops to be thug. But nine dead, uh biker gang . And lets be clear. I dont think its the most helpful thing if we just get mired in the language. The language is a standin for disparate treatment. The real problem here is that white americans and black and brown americans have a radically different experience of our police of our banks, of the criminal justice system, you name it. Thats the problem. I dont disagree with you on that part. But on the language part and about the moildedia double standard i think its bull. I have heard everybody on this show including on this show we have called them thugs at least and everybodys calling them thugs because we said they werent calling them thug. No not everybody believes that thug is a new way of saying the nword. The first thing that comes to my mind when someone says thug is not a black person. I think tony soprano. They are thugs the people in baltimore who rioted and burned down buildings. They were thugged. The people in waco who shot people are thugs. It has nothing to do with being black or white. I still think number one people are going out of the word now in response to the show. But its not inherently a racialized phrase. You have to look at context. Weve got to let these guys talk. Go ahead. Like what is that a question . I mean do you think its fair to compare this to compare waco between baltimore and ferguson. Do you think its fair to compare that . I think its always fair to analyze whether or not were using comparable measures of whatever however people behave. So if people are behaving in a way that is uncivil, we need to we always check to see if we are treating those people the same sort of way. So whether or not you call that person a thug here or in waco or not, lets just make sure that that application that the application of those words are the same. I do believe that there is something to what youre saying which is that you know, there is a spobsresponse to a very a very Quick Response online where people said, the first ways that these people were described, were not in these very very negative ways that we associate with. And even if you say, biker, gang outlaw in the american zeitgeist, these are somewhat romanticized figures, in a way. Because the biker image, the outlaw image, is always but has historically roll a shot of the people who were arrested the people in the gang here. Theres a shot of them if you look at it. What is a good word . Look at these people not all of these people are white. Not all of these people are white. A good word would be the same word which is you want no a good word the same word i want every american to evaluate criminality the same way, rather than in different ways because of the way that a person looks. I dont care what words you use, call them the devil. But do it all the time with everyone who behaves in a criminal fashion. Thats right. But if you dont do that heres the thing. Sally talked about it in terms of the media. In baltimore, it wasnt the media. It was the president and the mayor who called the people thugs. It wasnt the media calling people thugs. And i criticized that too. But the media did go there and analyzed in every possible way what their, the sociology of that group was like what the town was like how many people there did not have fathers in their homes. Weve looked at kind of pathologyies rather than looking at their individual people who did individual but charles, the reason we did that is because the story hang on one second. The reason we did that is because the story was about race. It was about a black suspect, someone who died and a white let me ask you let me finish. Ill let you go. Hang on let me finish. We did the same thing about the pathology of gangs. Im not saying yes, most things in america are about race. But i dont think this is an equal comparison. Its not necessarily its all only about race but race is a component, just as gender is a component, just as where you grew is up a component. Absolutely and shooting at each other before a race riot. Im sorry, im sorry. The idea that we feel like when black people behave some of them behave in a way that is that breaks the law, then we have the pathologize the entire communities and look for differences about their Family Structures and we have asked the tough questions. And in this case, were not asking the same thing about the white we are asking the same but i havent heard one person ask how many of these people came from singlefamily households. This is not about race. Theyre not fighting each other its never about race not all of these are white people and excuse me not all the people doing looting were necessarily black. But i didnt notice anyone rushing to make that point. Ive been getting emails all day pointing out, some of them are black, some of them are latino. Why is it that we are in such a hurry to criminalize people because its the only way you want to recognize it in your head . Im sorry. When mass shooters with the majority of mass shooters in this country are white men mass shooters yes. Why dont we have a conversation every time about white men . We do we do we talk about yes, we do in proportion excuse me is it not in proportion. It is incorrect. Let me also say, there has been a study in new york where there is an epidemic problem of racialization and profiling of young men of color, in New York New York police stations show and overcover crimes committed by black people committed by white people. They overcover it. We overcover it. We didnt cover baltimore as the media because people were protested, we covered it because the community got violent. Thats because it is is no it is because crime is out of control in certain areas in this city. Still, to this day. And out of control in waco texas. In waco . In that spot . Yes. You know where areas are, where there exists concentrated poverty and the overlap between concentrated poverty and criminality is enormous. But that is not the data that the fbi collects. What the fbi does ask is whether what their race was. And therefore, people link race to criminality, which is a racist concept, in and of itself rather than linking criminality to concentrated poverty. Yale did a study of chicago. People love to bring up chicago. Wherever you talk about criminality and shootings, chicago, chicago. Well they went and looked at chicago and they realized that most of those shooters were happening in areas of concentrated poverty and only 4 to 6 of those people were shooters or youre absolutely right about that. Charles, youre right about that but i think that this story about the bikers is not a fair comparison because this story does not have the element of race in it. You are trying to push this is the way you define and it thats how you want to define it. And this is the way were defining it all right . You look at it from your view and were looking at it from our viewer okay . What view is that . So who is right . What view is that though . I dont think every time but every time theres black criminality, i have to zip this skin up and put it on and we have to talk about black pathology. But when there is but charles, when were talking about stories that involve race does not include black but you keep you jumping on both sides of the fence. Sometimes youre saying were talking about stories that involve race if youre talking about stories that you this Tony Morrison has this great phrase. Ive got to go. You are racialized. The idea you cant put it on to you, but not on to me is ridiculous. We cant do this until we once that black people and white people in this country have a very different experience with the police system. If if it had been a bunch of black bikers armed to the hilt having a meeting known by police and the police just sat there and waited until they became violent theres no way you can say that sally. I can. I can. I think its a legitimate conversation. We will continue this conversation. I think its to compare this to stories about race i think its an unfair comparison. Up next another heated controversy at an elite private school in new york city has a mandatory curriculum about race that some parents call progressive, others call it segregation. Well hear from both sides, when we come right back. Im louis, and i quit smoking with chantix. I told myself for so long that i needed to quit smoking. I would quit then id go right back to it. Chantix absolutely helped me quit smoking. Along with support, Chantix Varenicline is proven to help people quit smoking. Chantix helped reduce my urge to smoke. Some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood hostility, agitation, depressed mood and suicidal thoughts or actions while taking or after stopping chantix. Some people had seizures while taking chantix. If you have any of these stop chantix and call your doctor right away. Tell your doctor about any history of Mental Health problems, which could get worse while taking chantix or history of seizures. 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With two times the concentration of epa and dha as the leading omega3 supplement. Plus, its the only brand with progel Technology Proven to reduce fish burps. New bayer pro ultra omega3. Fuelson is one of new york citys most progressive and elite private Elementary Schools. But a new program meant to teach students about race has some parents up in arms. Jason carroll has the story. Reporter a private school in new york city known for its liberal socially conscience alumni but some parents say one of its progressive programs might be going too far in the name of diversity. It began with this email sent in january to parents of the Elementary Schools third, fourth and fifth graders asking those parents to identify their children by race so those children could be part of a new mandatory curriculum starting with the third graders at the lower school designed to booths selfesteem among children of all races. It works in part by separating the Young Students into affinity groups based on their race. The theory for 45 minutes, once a week students can talk about concerns they may not feel comfortable talking openly about in front of people of other races. Many parents support the idea but others call it segregation. Alex greenberg is a sophomore at fieldstone too old for the new program, but still very interested in it. How do you think the program is being received here at the school . I think that it is beginning to get better. Reporter greenberg, with the help of his journalism adviser, wrote an article for the schools paper about the program. The idea of having affinity groups or at least having a space where you are among people who understand the issues that youre discussing you do not feel afraid to bring up these issues because you might offend somebody. That at its core is the inspiration behind the affinity groups. The problem, like we were saying is that when you try to divide people up because there are so many different categories and so many different races. I dont think there was enough outrage in the early stages so theres been this real mix. Reporter multiracial students are given multiple options of which groups to join but some parents of those students still not comfortable with forcing a third grader to choose. And why mandatory. The lower schools principal tells us he is quote, very proud of the program and what were doing, though he declined to answer specifics. Melanie killen is a developmental psychologist who prevents program focusing on children and race. She applauds progressive approaches to education, baaut has concerns. We are in a culture where we have people biracial, multiracial different ethnic groups and it creates a somewhat of a false dichotomy, white, black, and if you have other categories its sort of reinforcing that a little bit. A living lesson on race and the pitfalls of trying to do the right thing. Jason carroll, cnn, new york. All right. Joining me now, sunny hostin cnn legal analyst, the mother of a fieldstone student, who is in the program. Also joining me is tanikia thomas all parents of fieldstone students. How are you feeling . Thank you, don. So salespeoplepeak your mind. Its an important conversation. Ben and vanessa, both your children are in this program. So they have been told, you know all about it. Yeah. So what happened . What do you think of it . Ive been very pleased, actually. My daughter has had five sessions and theyre 45 minutes in length and she is in the selfselected white group and shes really been able to explore some i think, quite complicated issues and ive been quite pleased with the results. Your daughter right . Mmhmm. Does she tell you what theyve been saying in the group . Well she has been telling me what a 9yearold would probably share with their mother. But they are really discussing about their own identity how they can reflect that back to others in the community, how the group is the same how the group is different, and then they get into issues of really about racial sensitivity by the end of it. And your kid how many kids do you have . I have three kids two who are in the program now. And theyve had a different experience. And i guess i feel that my wife and i, are uncomfortable with the program and are not supporters of it but theyre in the program. Theyre in the program. But you dont like it . We dont like the program. Why not . Again, i think theres segregation. We dont like that aspect of it. And we havent seen any data. They havent released a Climate Survey or, you know they keep just saying you know trust us. And i went to fieldstone and its a great place and i love the school but we have a lot of serious questions. This is a program thats never been done anywhere else. Its the mandatory nature of it. You think it fosters segregation and you dont think it should be mound torandatory. I think if youre in school and your class is doing something, everyone should do it. So its okay if its mandatory, but i dont think it should be segregated. I think they should all do it. Tanika . So my daughter is in the second grade and hasnt started the program yet, but i could not be more excited about the program and wish it had started in the second grade so she could be a part of it. I think its going to be an absolutely valuable tool. I think its pushing the envelope and i think its what we need to really progress the racial discussions that we are constantly having at all levels. Like we just had on this program. Exactly. Adults are sometimes or most times not good at talking about this issue. And i think thats what were seeing. Maybe its time we teach our kids about it sunny . No you dont don, you know that i spend most of my day talking about issues about race and Racial Justice and social justice. And with your kids. And certainly i do discuss this with my children. And i choedsse fieldstone because it is diverse and progressive. We want racial influency if our children are going there. The problem that i have quite frankly, is the mandatory nature of these affinity groups. That is problematic to me. My child is multiracial. We are black, we are white, we are latino. She has sort of had this sort of goldielocks experience. First she was in the white group, and then in the black group, and now in the latino group because she gets to practice her spanish. I think to have 8yearolds selfidentify by race is very problematic, because, as ben said there is no research but sunny, you understand this is the only school in the country doing this. But you understand that all of the it has to start somewhere. You know somewhere, some School Started new math and it was the first one. It has to start somewhere. And you spend a lot of your time talking about that. If you when your daughter or son walks down the street they dont see them as a, you know, someone who comes from a multiracial they see them as either a black person an hispanic person or a white person. Thats how society sees your kid. Whats wrong with teaching the kid about that and then discussing it with them rather than have them leave in this false reality that race doesnt matter . Because it does. And i would never advocate this notion that race doesnt matter. I think we all can agree on that. But, i think, again, to have 8yearolds, 9yearolds, 10yearolds have to explore their racial identity which can be very fluent its been very fluent for me in my life because im multiracial is misplaced given the fact there is no research to support the mandatory nature of the affinity groups. Voluntary, sure. Well get into the program and also living in that sort of liberal, wealthy, enclave, which is not necessarily the reality around the country. The kids are very, you know theyre spoiled a bit, dont you think . Privileged. And theyre very privileged. Im glad you said that word because well talk about White Privilege as well. Coming up are Students Learning the right lessons about race or could there be unintended consequences when we come right back . Well hear from the rest of the parents. Financial noise financial noise financial noise financial noise theres some facts about seaworld wed like you to know. We dont collect killer whales from the wild. And havent for 35 years. With the hightest standard of animal care in the world our whales are healthy. Theyre thriving. I wouldnt work here if they werent. And Government Research shows they live just as long as whales in the wild. Caring for these whales, we have a great responsibility to get that right. And we take it very seriously. 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This is the article from new yorker magazine. And it says the ambitions of fieldstone the fieldstone program and some programs are better articulated by the school than others. But at the base the school hopes to initiate what calls an authentic conversation about race which researchers suggest may actually have been inhibited by liberal values for decades. Which meaning, under the spell of colorblindness that people go on and on and they subconsciously and unconsciously, they dont have to talk about race so that makes them very comfortable. So do you see any credence in that . I absolutely do. I think that because who wants to be colorblind . A lot of people. In my experience nobody wants that. Look i think that in my experience in being involved in diversity training both as a participant and also as a trainer, one of the challenges that i see all the time is that whites are left out of the conversation of race. That somehow, that race is a topic for everybody else but whites are somehow not a race and therefore, i think that this program that addresses the participation of whites in a racial discussion is really critical. Whites dont see themselves as a race, they see themselves as the ideal, unknowingly. I dont think everyone else is a race. I think that what happens is that the white concept is a majority cultural concept, and so that therefore, whites are left feeling like they dont have any right or any ability to engage in that conversation at all. Go ahead. I think segregation is dangerous. The board brown versus board of education was passed for a reason. I understand this is a private school and im not saying its illegal, but im not sure it wouldnt be illegal in the public schools. This afternoon, i watched your piece about the prom they had a segregated prom in georgia, a white one and a black one, i believe that thats bad segregation, but that this is okay segregation i think its whos the arbitrator of that . Who decides that . I dont think its that. I think that takes it to a different level. So were separating kids for 45 minutes, five times, for the years. And were letting them have a discussion and have a place where they can feel safe to talk about anything related to race. I think people assume that i dont go to fieldstone because im black. I think people make these assumptions that this is whats happening. They feel very much uncomfortable having those same conversations when their white friend is sitting there, because maybe that specific white friend doesnt feel that way. And theyre not saying that all people dont feel that way, but this is the experience theyre having. Giving them a safe environment where they can feel comfortable expressing themselves. And they can ask questions about because quite honestly i think kids need a space to go like we do when were together ugh, white people or you know, straight people or gay people or whatever and be comfortable about it. Its not necessarily racist but in order to overcome certain things about race you have to allow you have to be allowed to make mistakes and ask the question. Otherwise, it never gets but is it the role of the school . Absolutely its the role of the school. If youre sending your kid to the school for most of the day and teaching them reading, writing, and arithmetic i have not used any sort of arithmetic or writing thats not true. But most of what ive used in my professional life social interactions. To be clear, i think that fieldstone is a wonderful school. I think it is wellintentioned in this program and i think it generally gets it right. However, fieldstone is the only school that uses mandatory affinity groups in the country as the linchpin of teaching racial literacy. This program, to me sounds a lot more like racial identification rather than racial literacy. We can all agree, we want our children to have listen ive got to go but i want to say is this the methodology . Is this the right youre probably concerned about the way that it was initiated. Concerned about the methodology. There is some good in teaching kids about race. Of course but perhaps in a different setting. And i would argue the setting is the perfect setting. I agree. Im so glad that all of you came. Now i have to use arithmetic. The clock says 56 52 and i have to go in five four three, two one. Well be right back. Getting my free credit score at credit karma when is the last time you checked . Your credit is outa sight alright arent you curious to know what yours is now . Still got it. Credit karma, get your free score now. Thats it for us tonight. Im don lemon. See you right back here tomorrow night. A. C. 360 starts right now. Good evening. Thanks for joining us. Tonight, late details in the waco gang shootout, including the search for one suspect whose bail was somehow set much lower than 170 others. The question is mow did that happen . We have some answers tonight. Also tonight, hillary clinton, shes gone 28 days without answering questions from reporters. Questions about emails, the millions that she and her husband have made and more now, after nearly a month, she