Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight 20141223

Banks on mayor bill de blasio. Meanwhile, de blasio calls the attack on police an attack on the city as a whole and calls for a moratorium on antiPolice Protests. But is this a police problem, a discrimination problem, or is it both . Tonight were going to talk to people on all sides of this, including the former commissioner, who says he has never seen antipolice attitudes like these. Plus the First Responders who fought desperately to save the officers. They tell their emotional stories. Theyre here with me live. And also new york magazines frank rich weighs in on Police Protests and the movie north korea doesnt want you to see. Weve got a whole lot to get to this evening. But i want to go right to cnns martin savidge. Hes in brooklyn at the scene aft tack on officers wenjian liu and rafael ramos. Good evening, martin. What is the very latest tonight from bedfordstuyvesant . Reporter this of course was the scene of that horrific attack that took place on the saturday before christmas in the midst of the holiday season, and now its become a touchstone for many who have been shocked, who are in grief, who are mourning, and theyve been drawn here. You can see the collection of this of things that have been brout. If you look at it, you cant see it real clearly, but if you could, the diversity, it represents the diversity of new york in every way. Every makeup, religious makeup, ethnic makeup. And people are drawn here. Many people throughout the day have come to add, maybe add flowers, add a shirt, add something, a note. Others are just coming here to see that it really happened and to read what others have left behind. So its a point where people have begun to try to fathom what really happened. We heard yesterday from officer ramoss family, martin, and we just heard from officer lius widow. Tell us what she said. Reporter yeah. She was speaking of course for her own personal loss. We understand from authorities here that she had only been married to her Police Officer husband for a couple of months, so they had just start aid new life together, and now that life has been tragically taken from her. But also from the ramos family. Heres the sound. The liu family would like to express our gratitude and appreciation to the Police Department, our neighbors, the entire new york city community, friends and coworkers for the help and support they provide. We would also like to express our condolence to the officers family. This is a difficult time for both of our families. But we will stand together and get through this together. Thank you. Hard to imagine. You hear it in her words. You hear it in her words. It is just heartbreaking, don. It is absolutely terrible. The mayor and the Police Commissioner held a Police Conference today, and this is Surveillance Video of Ismaaiyl Brinsley that youre looking at right now. Martin, what is the significance of the video in well put it up. There it is. Reporter the important thing to note is this video is taken of course at a shopping area in brooklyn not that far away from this scene and it was apparently about three hours before the shooting took place. So youre looking at something that is about to happen. Of course were looking at it in hindsight. But its also the authorities trying to say look, there was about a 2 1 2hour gap, we dont know what this man did before the shooting. They want to find out whoa talked to, whoa was in contact with. They want to make sure no one else is an accomplice in any way to this horrific crime. In bedfordstuyvesant, brooklyn for us this evening. Thank you, martin. I want to bring in the volunteer emergency workers who were the first on the scene of the attack and desperately fought to save the wounded officers. And you see the chaotic moments after the shooting in this cell phone video from witnesses a witness who was across the street. So again, you can see the chaos there. Joining me now is tentania alexander, baron johnson, and pedro ordano, and commander rocky robinson. Theyre all with me. And theyre here from the bedfordstuyvesant volunteer ambulance corps. I also want to recognize some folks who are off scene now. More of the guys off scene. Antoine robinson, heath brown, and colin rayburn. And we want to make sure that we could show all of them because they are indeed heroes. They all helped out in all of this. So how are you guys doing this evening . How are you doing . Im okay. Its hard, but im okay. When you listen to the widow, even though you do what you do, its never easy to hear that, right . No. What we want to do is extend our condolence to that family because we know what theyre going through now. And our responders, when they heard that a Police Officer, two Police Officers were shot, we ran to that ambulance, and we got there and did everything we could. This young lady as i understand, she was you had just been on a call that was unsuccessful, a cardiac arrest. So it was a tough saturday for all of you. The night before, yeah. Early in the morning. And me and my partner, my partner and i, baron johnson, we did a cardiac arrest the night before. And that was unsuccessful. So for us to get that call and then turn around and get this call, it just made it a whole buildup that same day. You were helping out with the officer, pedro . Yes. I assisted my emt and my fellow partner here with, you know, whatever they asked me to do. What were you guys saying to the officers at this point . Pretty much they wasnt conscious. No, they wasnt conscious. So do you talk to them to try to say stay with me . What do you say . I kept asking officer ramos that if he could hear me to just, you know, blink his eyes or try to move or do anything to gesture that he can hear me. And it was nothing at all. No response from either of the officers . No. No. You when you guys race to a scene like this, whats going through your mind . Well, when you hear that theres somebody shot, you know its an emergency situation, that you have to do your proper patient assessment, see if they are breathing, open up their airway, check for a carotid to make sure theyre circulating. These officers, neither one of them had any circulation going on. So we had to get them out of the car and put them on the backboard and start our compressions and our ventilations, and we were able to put the first ramos into the back of our vehicle. Thats what i wanted to ask because baron, did you go to the hospital in the back of the ambulance with the officer . I was actually the driver. You were the driver. Of the ambulance. Who went with him . I did. And my other emt, emt wombo. He couldnt get off work tonight. He was in the back of our ambulance. And he was in the back of our ambulance. But what happened is we didnt have but one ambulance. They arrived on the scene about two or three minutes later and took the other officer. But we were doing these gentlemen over there was doing cpr on the other cop. Okay. Let me ask you let me let these guys talk. So who was with the officers . You were with the officers. Yeah. So tell us what happened as you were taking them. I understand you went to the emergency room with them as well. Take us through that. Yeah, i went to the emergency room. I got the driver, officer ramos. My partner, baron johnson, we pulled them out of the car basically and put them on the backboard, collar and headband him, and he started doing compressions. We got to the back of the ambulance, i noticed that he still wasnt he wasnt conscious. After finally arguing with a couple of cops about going to kch i finally told everybody and i told the cop weve got to take over compressions while i seal and stabilize the wounds. And he was pumping. He was pumping. We were calling his name. He still wasnt answering. Tell us about the wounds. What did you see . His ears. His blood. Gray matter coming out. It was just its a lot. He had like a whole there was a whole lot going on. I understand the doctors worked on him for an hour . Yes, sir. Were you there . I was there the whole time. Tell us what you saw. Initially, when the call came over, it came over as officer down. I was approximately maybe a block and a half away from the base. So i ran back to the base to get tantania and pedro and wombo and let them know we have an officer down. Ems directed us to the cop. We got there. And automatically we just went in and start working on them. We did everything that we can do. And we noticed that we were the only ones there. We had to work on both patients because we couldnt just tend to one. So it was a mixture of tanti going from helping me doing compressions on ramos to going over to the other side with officer liu. You havent said much. Whats your experience . What did you do what was going through your mind as youre doing all of this, pedro . Well, you can you can only think a certain amount of things. When i went up on the scene, you know, it was it was scarring. Chaos. It was scarring. You know what i mean . Like to see two Police Officers that way, it affected me in so many different ways. You know . As i understand, you guys, you do this, rocky, voluntarily. Well, let me just tell you something. One of the calls this remind me of is a call where a guy was shot in the head and brain matter was coming out and the police had already roped off the area because to them it was an obvious d. O. A. But that doesnt matter. You have to do your proper patient assess sxmt see and feel that carotid to make sure hes not pulsating. So what happened is you have to work on this man no matter what. Listen, before we go, were running out of time but i just want to know you that do this voluntarily. Yeah, this is a volunteer ambulance corps. We dont get paid. As a matter of fact, if we had another ambulance we would have had both of the people. We do it on a volunteer basis. We depend on donations to keep us running. We only had one ambulance because we didnt have insurance for the other ambulance. You know, otherwise, we would have had both cops off the scene there in less than two minutes. So if people want to help you out is there a website . Is there a fund . Yeah. Please go to b as in boy, s as in sam, v as in victor a as in apple c as in charlie dot org and donate to save a life. Thank you. We save lives all over the world. And we thank you for it. Thank you very much. Thank you. Thank you very much. And lets show our guys here off screen. He with wanted to make sure everyone got on camera. Because we know that you all are heroes. Thank you this evening from everyone in america. When we come right back, the shocking moment when new york Police Officers literally turned their backs on the citys mayor. Is the relationship between police and city hall that bad, and what will it take to fix it . Plus the former Police Commissioner who says americas Police Officers are not out of control. Also, is this payback for north korea . Why the whole country went offline today. Well be right back. You dont think much about it. You never dwell on how it was made. Its just a blanket after all. But when Everything Else has been lost, the comfort it provides is immeasurable. The america red cross brings hope and help to people in need every 8 minutes, every day. So this season give something that means something. Support us at redcross. Org many Police Officers in new york city are angry at mayor bill de blasio tonight. They charge he has taken the side of protesters in recent demonstrations and hasnt shown enough support of police. They showed the mayor exactly how they feel on saturday, turning their backs on him at the hospital where the two murdered officers were taken. So joining me now is melinda katz. Shes the president of the new york city borough of queens and an ally of mayor bill de blasio. Thank you for joining us, borough president. We appreciate it tonight. My pleasure. Thanks for having me. You know that video is chilling. New yorks finest turning their backs on the citys leader. Many current and former officer feel that the mayor has symbolically turned his back on them. How do you respond to that . You know, new york citys a tough place. And it tests you. And theres no doubt that it tests your heart. But protests and open debate and a public discussion is exactly what america was founded upon. Its exactly what legislation like the Civil Rights Movement came from and health care choices. Its the reason, by the way, that i as a woman can vote. Because of debate and protest. That doesnt preclude supporting the police as well. Make no mistake about it. These two officers, these young men who were sworn to protect the city of new york and were doing their job, they were killed by a lone gunman. That gunman killed shot his girlfriend, was arrested 19 times, came to the city of new york to kill these officers. That is the person we need to blame. And as far as protest goes, new york city, its almost an obligation to be on the streets and to say your peace. Okay. But i want you to im sure youve heard it from patrick lynch, what he the head of new yorks Biggest Union said in reaction to the killings. Lets listen now and ill get your response. Theres blood on many hands tonight. Those that incited violence on the street under the guise of protest, that tried to tear down what new york city Police Officers did every day. That blood on the hands starts on the steps of city hall in the office of the mayor. Im sure youre going to say that is an extreme position to take but he does represent Police Officers in this city. I think its more than extreme. I think that right now is a time for the city to heal. And at the end of the day two officers were killed. They are a son. They are a husband. They are family members. And we need to give the city time to mourn. The mayor talked about that this afternoon and i think thats absolutely right. But i also think its time for leaders to step up and take charge. We need to be above this fray. We need to be sure we are working as one city. There is no loss of life that is acceptable. There is no loss of life that the city of new york will ever accept. And to put the blame at the hands of a mayor who has accepted protests, who has had open debate in his city, and to say that just because he has open debate and open protests and by the way, voices need to be heard. Does not mean that you dont support the hardworking men and women who protect our Public Safety every single day. An attack on them is an attack on the Public Safety of the city of new york. I think its time for the leaders of the city, the unions, the administration, all of the elected officials, the civic leaders, to come up and be above the fray thats happening right now. We cannot start healing as a city unless we do that. At the bare minimum we need to let these officers rest. We need to let the families mourn. Borough president melinda katz. Thank you. Thank you. I want to bring in howard schafer, a former new york city Police Commissioner from 96 to 2000. Thank you for joining us. My condolences to both the ramos and liu family. Thats the most important thing right now. You have said that we have seen this is a quote from you. We have seen nothing but police bashing from some of the highest offices in the land. Explain that to me. Well, weve heard from the mayor. Weve heard from the attorney general. Weve heard from the president that people of color should always be concerned when they are confronted or interacting with police. Basically saying that Police Forces in the United States are racists, brutal, unprofessional. And that couldnt be further from the truth. The fact is new york city has the most diverse Police Department in the world. The probably the youre going to be confronted by a Police Officer in fronew york, youre going to be confronted by a person of color. If you look at the facts, civilian complaints have gone down for the last ten years every year. Officerinvolved shootings have gone down every year for the last ten years. The new York City Police department is one of the most professional restrained Police Departments in the world. And when our leaders tell the public that they need to be afraid of Police Officers, this creates an atmosphere where somebody like a brinsley and im not talking about blood on anybodys hands. But what im talking about is somebody like brinsley, who goes on the internet and says im going to kill Police Officers because of eric garner and Michael Brown. Are you inferring that what the mayor said after after the eric garner nonindictment, that he wasnt indicted, that he worries about his sxon Police Officers . Is that what youre saying of course. Basically, what the mayor said is when my son is interacting with a Police Officer he has to be afraid. And his quote was that he not only has to be afraid of criminals, he has to be concerned about the people who protect him as well. And that is absolutely the wrong message. Its broad brushing 35,000 good men and women who put their lives on the line every single day. And its just not acceptable. How would you have handled it . How would i have handled it . There was a process. I mean, we have to make a distinction here. And its a tough distinction. People get upset at us. But its the fact. Eric garner and Michael Brown were committing crimes. Officer ramos and liu were protecting the public doing their job. There is a great dinks between that. If Michael Brown and eric garner had complied with the orders of the Police Department, we wouldnt be talking about this. And you know, we talk about protests. I have no problem with First Amendment rights and i have no problem with protests. But that doesnt mean blocking traffic on the Brooklyn Bridge. It doesnt mean 350 people running down a main street in new york city shouting we want dead cops. Some have said the mayor should resign. Do you believe the mayor should resign . No, i dont believe the mayor should resign. The mayor is legally elected. I believe what he should do is reach out to the Police Department, especially the police union. I believe he should reach out and say we have to come together because the only way the city is going to gain and not go back to 1990 when we had 2,000 murders and 60,000 car thefts and gangs ruling the street, the only way were going to heal is when the police and the mayor can realize that the men and women of the new York City Police department made new york city the safest large city in america. When we talk about policing across the country, the fact is Violent Crime is the at its lowest level in recorded history in this country. And that was done by the sacrifice of men and women in uniform. We should be thanking them, not abusing them. Commissioner safir called for the president of the United States to make a national day of support for Police Officers. Thank you, commissioner. Thank you p. Up next two former Police Officers, including one who was with the nypd for more than two decades weigh in on the rift between bill de blasio and his police force. Mayor bill de blasio said today Police Officers are our protectors who must be respected. But is it too little too late . Joining me now is peter mosokos, a former Police Officer in baltimore and now a professor at John Jay College of criminal justice. Errol lewis, cnn political commentator and a political anchor at new york one news. Youve seen him here on cnn. And also tom birney a former nypd detective. Thank you for joining us this evening. Very sensitive subject here. A lot of people believe the mayors comments and his actions really were disrespectful and maybe ratcheted up threats against the Police Officers. And many think that he may have, or some i should say think that he poured fuel on a fire. Do you believe that, tom . Theres i think the mayor could have handled things overall i think in a better way. Just my own personal opinion. And based on also watching the previous mayors of the city and how theyve handled crisises like this. Under mayor bloomberg and under mayor giuliani in a crisis situation they would have come out more even keeled. They would have waited for all the facts and evidence to come out in certain cases such as Staten Island. And you have to also remember the mayor, when he ran for mayor in the primaries last year, he ran a very antipolice, antinwpd campaign. He said he was going to reform them. It was more against stop and frisk. Why is that antinypd . The feeling coming from him was the police have gone on this wrong path and they have been on that wrong path for many years and you needed all these reforms and they were out of control and whatnot. And again, not that stop and friction didnt need to be reformed. Thats fine that they did do that and now stop and frisk reports have dropped tremendously because of that. But the feeling on behalf of police was that it was they were just not treated even from the getgo as before we move on, we have video of the officers this weekend at the hospital turning their backs on the mayor. Would you have done that . You were 22 years with the department. Almost 22 years, yeah. Would you have done that . And i think i would have done that. I think my sentiment probably would have been very much in line with everyone else there at that time. You have to also remember, the shootings just happened. The emotions are raw. Theyre running very high. And they feel that this mayor has not supported them. Not only overall but even in Contract Negotiation ppz theyre working four or five years without a contract. Errol, you have said that the killing of these two cops could not have come at a worse time. What will this mean between the relationships between the community and police . Well, it will vary from community to community. But basically, a lot of the conversation is going to be muted. Today, for example, the mayor openly called on protesters to at least take a break until these officers are buried. Until these families start to heal. What did you make of that . Did you think that should happen . I think it was probably the right thing to say. Frankly it was probably going to happen anyway because were going into the holidays. A cooling off period is very much needed because theres been too much angry rhetoric, too much irresponsible rhetoric, and if we just catch our breath for a couple of weeks probably a great yesterday. But the issues still remain. The protesters will be back. Theyve made that abundantly clear. The unions not backing down. Theyre in the middle as tom says of a negotiation. Theyve got issues theyre not going to go to sleep on. He might have deferred some of these issues but these issues have got to get hashed out. This was a big, big deal during the Election Year last year and we havent fully resolved them yet. Peter, former mayor Rudy Giuliani was on this network, cnns program new day. And of course you know he doesnt hold back and he didnt this morning. Take a listen. When you see the protesters taking over the city, then all of a sudden the police get the impression youre supporting them, not him. Theres no question he was supporting the protesters and not the police. And then the strange comment about his son, that he tells his son to be careful of the police. His sons biracial. It sounds as though well, his son has a nine times greater chance of being killed by another black than a Police Officer. So what he should be talking to him about is hey, take care of yourself in the streets, son. Because your chance of being killed by a Police Officer is minuscule. Your chance of being killed by another black is monumental. So this question was for peter, but everyone, you said thats our rudy. He should really keep his mouth shut a little bit more. Your reaction was . Well, i know hes giving those statistics from the fbi statistics that show the amount of black on black crime. And white on white crime also obviously. The chance of him getting assassinated is not monumental. Not now. Hes being protected by the police now. Hes fine. But peter, you have said that the mayor in addition to the president , the attorney general are incorrectly being viewed as antipolice. Im curious to know your reaction to what he said just now. A lot of this is just an ideological divide. Most cops are never going to like de blasio just as they dont like obama. The cops are conservative, and de blasio and obama are not conservative. At some point it is just as simple as that. And thats fine. This is america. We can agree to disagree. But the idea that they try to delegitimize first the president and de blasio, theyre saying he only got so many votes. More than bloomberg ever got, by the way. He is our mayor, and theres a certain amount of dignity and respect that they owe the mayor just for, that for nothing else. But especially in this time when were dealing with officers who are killed. Do you think it was okay for him to reference his son when he talked about Police Officers after the officer involved in the garner case was not indicted . Im not a father. Ive got to leave that one to him. I dont know. But it doesnt seem often we criticize politicians for talking about their children. And ill tell you as a father you care in a way thats very deep and very profound. As a politician, as a political leader, perfectly appropriate for him to try to connect with people. And theres nothing wrong with that. On the other hand, there are other people who have kids. Hes got two sons. Theyre both on the nypd. Weve all got to start to look at everybodys kids as everybodys responsibility. Thats the conversation we need to have. Stand by, everybody. Because coming up, what were learning tonight about the nypd shooter, and what went on inside the mind of a killer. Oh what fun it is to ride. Get the mercedesbenz on your wish list at the winter event going on now but hurry, the offer ends december 31st. [ho, ho, ho ] lease the 2015 c300 4matic for 419 a month at your local mercedesbenz dealer. [martha and mildred are good to. Go. Heres your invoice, ladies. A few stops later, and it looks like big ollie is on the mend. It might not seem that glamorous having an old pickup truck for an office. Or filling your days looking down the south end of a heifer, but. I wouldnt have it any other way. Look at that, i had my best month ever. And earned a shiny new office upgrade. I run on quickbooks. Thats how i own it. Welcome back, everyone. Im here with my panel, errol louis, tom birney, and also peter moskos, two of them former Police Officers and also a commentator with new york 1. Were going to continue our conversation. Were going to talk about this man, the killer who executed two new york city Police Officers, shooting them at point blank on a brooklyn street in broad daylight. He had just shot his exgirlfriend hours before. His name is Ismaaiyl Brinsley. He had a long history of emotional problems and crime. Heres a background now from cnns nick valencia. Reporter at 28 years old Ismaaiyl Brinsleys life was full of failure. Broken relationships and runins with police. Career criminal. A troubled individual. Clearly deeply emotionally troubled past. Reporter after bouncing from address to address as a teen he leaves a new Jersey High School in 10th grade and drifts according to the new york times. Traces of his troubles over the years are found in Police Reports that spread from georgia to hawaii. In the last ten years brinsley is arrested at least 19 times. In a 2013 Police Incident report in brooklyn, new york brinsley assaults his five months pregnant exgirlfriend. The perp put his hand on the victims forehead, the report says, and hit the victim on the head with his head. In another report from 2011, brinsley opens fire on a womans car. He later flees, only to be arrested and charged for the crime. The list of Police Reports goes on and on. From probation violations to petty crimes to terroristic threats. Brinsleys behavior over the years nothing short of erratic. In 2011 brinsley confirms to a judge that he had once been a patient at a mental hospital. And he tried to commit suicide about a year ago. We got that from family members. Reporter raising the question how does a man with a history of mental issues get his hands on a gun . Police say the weapon used in the attack was purchased nearly 20 years ago at a georgia pawn shop. How brinsley got the gun is unclear. Seen here in this Surveillance Video just before the shooting police say they believe he used a plastic bag to carry the gun. Beyond that theyve released few other details. 30 minutes outside of atlanta in union city, georgia, brinsleys last known address. An acquaintance who did not want to go on camera describes the shooter as a mellow guy who was softspoken. A far different description of the man who posted this in one of his final messages on instagram. Im putting wings on pigs today, he wrote. They take one of ours. Lets take two of theirs. What were seeing in the social media investigation, basically on instagram he put out 119 images on his instagram account. A lot of these things are selfdespair, but theyre also antigovernment. Reporter brinsleys attack has been called revenge on police for the recent highprofile deaths of two unarmed civilians. But on monday new yorks mayor said the killings werent just an attack on police but an attack on us all. Nick valencia, cnn, atlanta. All right. So back on my panel, are you surprised . I know youre reporting on this and you know many of the details. But seeing them all together like that. Yeah, well, it paints a portrait of a ticking time bomb. The thing is its not that indistinguishable from many, many other people who have various emotional and Mental Illness issues. I think whats really distinctive is that he had a history of violence and the psychiatrist that i interviewed earlier today told me that thats the thing you should really look at. Lots of people have Mental Illness. It doesnt make them dangerous. In fact it makes them more likely to be a victim than a perpetrator. But when you see the violence manifest itself why is he out on the streets . This is from his family. Its new tonight from Ismaaiyl Brinsleys family. Take a listen. I feel so bad for the family. We give our condolences. We give our condolences to the family. Were grieving, and were very sorry. This has nothing to do with police retaliation. This was a troubled, emotionally troubled kid. He needed help. He didnt get it. And if he got arrested this many times, that was a question, like why wouldnt they help him out in but they kept releasing him into the streets. So isnt that a problem that the Justice System should be asking . Not us. Good question. That was his sister and his aunt, by the way. Our affiliate wcbs. Good question. Is it retaliation . And is this a question that the Justice System should be answering, tom . Why is this guy out . Why was he out . Hes a 28yearold guy arrested 19 times. A career criminal. Clearly hes got a few screws loose. Anyone whos going to go and assassinate two Police Officers, must have doesnt have a full deck on them. And you know, hes posting this on his instagram account, that hes going to come up and two this. That along with the fact that when you have protesters running through the streets of the city chanting what do we want, dead cops, when do we want it, now, all it takes is one guy with a screw loose with a weapon to do a lot of damage. So you think the protesters go ahead. I mean, look, those kind of when that happened with the protesters that was the low point of the protest along with the cop being attacked. There were tens of thousands of people protesting peacefully and to say somehow this is the protesterses fault or de blasios fault or obamas fault, this is the fault of the Mental Health system, this is the fault of the access to guns, this is the fault of the criminal Justice System. It doesnt take Rocket Science to figure out this guy was crazy. Its not an issue of protesters. A big part of the problem is were using criminal justice as the Mental Health system. There are far more people behind bars who need Mental Health than are in Mental Health institutions. Were giving them the wrong kind of treatment. You dont lock up somebody because they have Mental Health needs. Youve got to treat them. In prison or not. So youre saying everybodys saying its a problem of the Mental Health system. Youre saying that in some ways do you think that the circumstances that led up to this somehow motivated this man to shoot two Police Officers . Well, again, when you have so we have the Staten Island verdict, the grand jury verdict. These protests started taking place. I dont have a problem with people protesting. Everybody has a right to protest. I dont have a problem with that. But in a city of new york especially manhattan when you have thousands of people running through the city with no destination in sight, just rambling through the city at will, its for more reasons than one, its a safety hazard. Somebodys going to get hit by a wayward cab or potentially stop an ambulance from going to where they need to go with a guy having a heart attack you blame the protesters for the shooting of his exgirlfriend . What im blaming this whole scenario i think is a manife manifestation of the passiveness of the mayor, of not coming out sooner and calling for calm and calling for people to rely on the facts and the evidence, which is what the grand jury saw in staent island. He this saw all these things we didnt see and they deemed this officer shouldnt be indicted. Whether you agree with that or not is one thing. But thats what they deemed. Problem su cant tell people not to exercise their First Amendment right to protest. Not at all. Because it might set a crazy person off. That is thats just not reasonable. Thats not reality. No, but in the mind of someone like this when you have, again, protesters that are able to run through the city aimlessly with no direction in sight, where the police are not able to police that event properly and safely but the police did a good job policing the event. Fantastic job. Ive got to ask you this. And again, the people who are out peacefully protesting, it is their right. Everyone encourages that. Were talking about the few who cause violence. I said on the situation room tonight that ive lived in new york city off and on since 1990, i have never seen someone who was brazen enough to go up and hit a Police Officer while cameras are rolling, as we saw on the Brooklyn Bridge and other places. You talked about the attitude or the atmosphere that sort of precipitated this from the top. Its a top down mindset. You think that that would have happened, the same things would be happening under giuliani, under bloomberg, under dinkins i dont think. So. Under koch . More cops were getting killed back then. Well, crime back in the early 90s, we had 2800 people being murdered in the city as well but things have changed there have been demonstrators who wanted to sabotage others or go out and commit violence. That is not something new. What is new is that it even happened and what weve all got cell phones and thats not specific to this administration is what youre saying. Yeah. Its an air of permissiveness that seems that the mayor is like this is woodstock and its like lets go out and just do what we want and who cares how many people, especially cops get hurt because theyre the abusive nypd. All right. In your opinion. In my opinion. Thank you, gentlemen. Well be right back. Hey guess what day it is . . Hump day hummmp daaay its hump day yeah hey Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike Mike mike mike. Hey he knows hey guess what day it is hey camel guess what day it is its not even wednesday. Let it go, phil. If youre a camel, you put up with this all the time. Its what you do. sigh if you want to save fifteen percent or more on car insurance, you switch to geico. Its what you do. Ok. But the comfort it provides is its justimmeasurable. Ece the america red cross brings hope and help to people in need every 8 minutes, every day. So this season give something that means something. Before the coldblooded execution of two new york city Police Officers tensions were high between new york mayor bill de blasio and the Police Department. Now things are suddenly much worse. Joining me now to discuss this is frank rich, writer at large for new york magazine. Its much worse, right . It is. But i think its worse in the sense it reflects whats going on not just in new york or in baltimore for that matter but the whole country. Ithink weve become the flash point because of these horrific crimes committed here. The mayor said an attack on two Police Officers is an attack on every one of us. Is there anything he can do now to calm this situation . Is there anything he can do . No. I think frankly if the mayor of new york were a combination of, you know, fdr and fiorello lagardia and jesus christ he could not solve what is a serious problem with the police and the population. Not just the police and the mayor. Thats the least of it in a way. The mayor is i think a relatively minor figure in this whole drama. But hes an important figure in the city of new york. The whole world is watching. You see the officers, how they responded to him, turning their backs on him as he walks into a meeting, as he walks, you know ive never seen that. But the police didnt love a bloomberg. They didnt love giuliani. They didnt love david dinkins. But what does that thats a bit of political theater, and it makes de blasio i guess look bad. It also makes possibly the police look bad. But what does that accomplish in terms of the root situation here, where we have in the aftermath of the eric garner the nonindictment in that case a very angry public. Some crazy people going over the top but a genuine angry public thats also normal lawabiding citizens who feel mistreated by this police force. First we saw the punching of a Police Officer at a protest in the city, and then we saw an altercation with two Police Officers on the bridge. There have been mostly peaceful protests which the mayor pointed out in the press conference with the Police Commissioner. But then we also see this happening and we hear protesters saying some very ugly things about the police. Weve never seen people brazen enough to do that, especially in the proliferation of cell phones and cameras, to actually strike or punch a Police Officer in public. Ive never seen that. Have you . No. Not since the late 60s. Its terrible. And it shouldnt happen. On the other hand, we have people who are angry who are protesters who are not doing that who feel that the police got away with murder in the case of eric garner. What would you like to see . Youve been around these parts for a while. What would you like to see . I think there has to be genuine outreach between the police, and i think bill bratton forget about de blasio for a second. I dont think bratton has done a particularly good job of managing the force or conveying any kind of outreach to the people who are genuinely agreed who are not nuts about whats going on since the eric garner case. But the mayor has confidence in him because this is his second time becoming commissioner and hes actually the person who put or one of the people who put stop and frisk into play when he was commissioner the first time. I think this is all screwed up. I think obviously bratton is not effective. He may be part of the problem, not the solution. Then you have a mayor in the case of de blasio who is not a brilliant manager, is not a great communicator. So theyre all muddying it. And all of that could be improved. But i would just argue that the underlying issues are so severe and the issues that have sort of all across the country, from ferguson, as you know, on in cleveland, these issues are so explosive a Management Change in the city of new york is not going to solve it. Former new york governor George Pataki tweeted this after the attack. He said, sickened by these barbaricing acts which sadly are predictable outcome of divisive anticop rhetoric o oof eri of ericholder, mayorde blasio, nypd. What do you think of this . I think thats just pouring gasoline on the flames. And lets just say someone, heaven help us, someone takes a shot at eric holder or bill de blasio. Should governor pataki be held accountable . Should the police Union Rhetoric be held accountable for Something Like that . This is going to be an escalating situation. Thats in its way as bad as the worst of the protesters trying into cite violence. And thats exactly what theyre doing. I wanted to get you here last week but unfortunately you were not available to talk about sony. Breathtaking. The hackers unbelievable. Are we going to see more of this, do you think . Im convinced if we have learned nothing over the past couple of years, it is that no institution that we think of as invulnerable, whether it be Sony Pictures corporation, jpmorganchase, the nsa, the white house, the post office, home depot, target, theyve all been hacked by various different culprits. And so cyber warfare is a real thing, and if they can bring major corporations or even Government Agencies to their knees, and were powerless basically to stop it, in some cases to even identify who the villains are, its a serious issue. Do you think that not releasing the movie, that sony capitulated, that the Movie Companies who wouldnt run it, the Theater Companies who didnt run it, did they capitulate . Is it blackmail or terror . Its terror. Everyone capitulated because first of all no, movie chains wanted to show it. Comcast announced it wouldnt stream it or put it on demand. Thats the largest Cable Provider in the country. And then you know damn well that if sony had found five theaters, five cineplexes that wanted to show the interview the other studios would have said, oh, not where youre playing our movie, our Christmas Movie that we need to make a lot of money in the theater next door. The Department Store in that mall would have said no, we dont want it. So everyone it was an effective act of terror. Damned if they did, damned if they didnt on sonys part. Yeah. Thank you. Happy holidays. Same to you. Good to see you. Well be right back. Dad, i know i havent said this often enough, but thank you. Thank you mom for protecting my future. Thank you for being my hero and my dad. Military families are uniquely thankful for many things, the legacy of usaa Auto Insurance could be one of them. 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Sow hea so you heard from the heroes of the bedfordstuyvesant ambulance corps tonight. For more on their work go to bsvac. Org. Thats it for us tonight. Thanks for joining us. Im don lemon. Ill see you back here tomorrow night. Night. Ac 360 starts right now. Captions by vitac www. Vitac. Com good evening. Im wolf blitzer sitting in for anderson. President obama said the United States would retaliate against north korea at a time of its own choosing for the sony cyberattack. Tonight north koreas internet is down. The question is did washington just pull the plug on kim jong un . Late new details coming in. Stand by for that. But lets begin with the breaking news and a call for unity in a deeply divided new york. New yorks mayor bill de blasio asking new yorkers to put aside their differences and put a lid on protests until after two fallen new york Police Officers are laid to rest. He reaffirmed