Ruin the rest of their lives. Were going have a debate on that and more. We want to know what you think on all of this. Use the don. Im really happy right now. Not because we lost, but because of this. Americans coming together and actually socializing with each other in person, not on some electronic device, like my colleagues today here at cnn watching the game on giant Office Monitors along with some of our bosses. And like my friend shawn and his coworker christina, who dressed up in soccer gear at their office and then texted the picture to me. And like lawmakers in washington, watching with the president. It shows that we arent as divided as we might think, republicans on one side, democrats on the other. It proves that we are all americans, just as ethnically diverse as team usa, coming together behind a singular cause for good. Can we plai please have more of that every day and not just every four years during the world cup . Think about that, will you . Lets get to the game. The score was 00 after 90 minutes. But the u. S. World cup run is over. And despite goalie tim howards heroics, belgium took us down, 21. Joining me now is cnns shasta darlington. She is live in brazil, and a man who i guess was going to be happy no matter how tonights game went down. Cnns own Paul Vercammen whose family is belgian. The party is over, but for team usa, at least they went out with a bang and not a whimper. Exactly. I think there are a lot of mixed emotions here. There is some disappointment and some sadness. But thats really mixed in with a sense of achievement. Not only did team usa go as far as it did, but tens of thousands of american fans flew all the way to brazil, followed them around the country, many of them had to delay their tickets home when they passed on to the round of 16. So people are really proud of their team and proud of the soccer spirit that is growing in the United States. And another interesting thing, don. I think other countries, especially brazilians, are taking notice. Theyre saying team usa may one day be a wellknown soccer team. Well see. Perfect. So listen, the american outlaws have been very popular there as you said in brazil whom. Are they going to root for now, the usa fans . Who are they going to root for mao in the world cup . Well, don, you know how much Vacation Time we have every year. So you can imagine two or three weeks into this, most of the fans who came here already used up their Vacation Time. They actually already had to go into overtime, fighting with their bosses to stay here for this last game. So most of them really are headed home. No doubt this little love affair they started with brazil will continue. A lot of people felt they were supported and so well received by brazilians will go on to show their support for team brazil, i am certain. But again, most of them are headed home. This was already a little extra time, a little extra fun. And keep in mind that after brazilians, americans were the fans that bought more tickets. Over 100,000 to go to the games here. 10 they feel like theyve had their fun. Now its time to sit back and see who goes next, don. All right. Now to paul, my belgian american friend. It must have been a roller coaster for you. But at least you came out smiling in the end. I was going to smile no matter what. As i said, don, i had a guarantee to be in the quarterfinals. It was great. I want to start a campaign on the don lemon show. Lets erect a statue of tim howard. Do you know he said a record today for most saves in a world cup . Just phenomenal, don. Not since 1966, i believe. I understand that your mom, though, paul, is one of 14 children. So the legion of vercammens, how are they reacting . Theyre out of their mind. Theyve been texting all day. My mom had played soccer with the boys back in belgium as farm girl. And i gave her a call today in solvang, california. And i thought it would be fun for you to take a listen. Lets take a listen. Oh, my gosh, unbelievable unbelievable. Yeah, im still havent slept for the whole day. I havent had my nap either. But beautiful. Beautiful. That was really cute. Everybody in here in the studio likes it. Like a lot of europeans, she takes that power nap. And one other note. My sister, the benevolent nurse who never denies anybody their meds, she is bringing chocolate for coworkers and there are people all over the hemisphere who are going to bring their friends belgian streets. Thank you, Paul Vercammen. Team usa wouldnt have made it to the round if not for clint dempsey. So joining me now, lance and ashley dempsey, whose lances brother and sisterinlaw. Guys, it was a great run. Lance, an instant classic despite the loss. You must still be proud, right . Oh, yeah. Were happy. And congrats to belgium. Better luck next time for the u. S. You know, the American Team had to travel the most of any team. 8900 miles compared to belgiums one 45minute flight covering just 1100 miles you. Think that impacted their performance . Were looking for excuses here today, i think. Oh, yeah, definitely. No, i dont think that that was a factor. I think that we didnt roll over and die and just give it away. So i felt like we were in it to win it the whole time. And it came down to the wire like every game did for the u. S. It was very exciting to watch. I really enjoyed it. Ashley and lance, it must have been tough watching it in the end. We have a picture of clint curled up in a ball after the loss. Did you see that on television and what were you thinking . We didnt see that. I think we felt the same way. I think we were in probably in the same position in our living room. So thats why we didnt catch it. But we were feeling the pain. It was it was a hard loss, because we were fighting so hard. And i think everyone was just on the edge of their seat, holding their breath, just really hoping for one more goal. But i think right there at the end, they gave it all they could give it. We went out with a bang. We had cameras there, and we saw you guys watching it. Does clint realize all the support the team has here in the United States . And does he know, his twitter following has increased like 78 . And people just love him. Everyone is watching not only at your house, but everywhere. Does he know that . He doesnt feed into media too much. I think its just because of him wanting to stay, stay true to his passion. But it is a huge compliment for him. Yeah. The whole town here has supported him. And i think he knows that nacogdoches has been behind him. And i think he is proud of that and his family is proud of that. I think he everyone has represented him well, and he has represented the u. S. Amazing. The whole team has done such a good job. I love the way you say nacogdoches. Im from baton rouge, so im used to saying that name. Its cool to hear someone who can actually say it on television properly. Yes, yes. I know. No one can say it. You guys, you were great sports. I say congratulations anyway, because it was really quite an accomplishment. Thank you, ashley, thank you, lance. We appreciate it. Thank you. So the big question after our collection, our collective soccer fever is a beautiful game here to stay in the usa . Joining me now, cnns rachel nichols. Rachel, so put a button on it. What did this mean for us . It was a great step forward for u. S. Soccer. Yes, the American Soccer Team had reached this stage before, but never with the confidence and fervor that they had in this world cup. Never with the support that they had all over the United States. And never being able to emerge from the group of death, which really gave the americans that confidence that they needed to go on to the world stage. I think that before the tournament, we heard jurgen klinsmann, the coach, ruffle a few feathers when he said it was, quote, not realistic for the u. S. To win the world cup. There was debate about that and whether it was good or bad to lower expectations. But i guarantee you this, don. No american soccer coach is ever going to say significant anything like that again because the expectation in this country is absolutely we can compete for a world cup. And with this young team, its a reality. That. We can go all the way. Can we talk about tim howard . What an amazing game. It was possibly one of the best final cup performance ever, right . 35 years old. Did we witness an historic Performance Today . Absolutely. You guys were talking about the record. 16 saves, hadnt been done since 1966. Not having been done by an american, hadnt been done by anyone. And it really was a fantastic last performance in the world cup stage for tim howard, which lets be honest. He is 35 years old. This is probably the last time well see him on this platform. This is a kid who before he even graduated high school was playing professional soccer. That is not usual in the United States, certainly 20 years ago. He has paved the way in a lot of different directions. And i think there are a lot of kids out there who want to be tim howard when they grow up now. Thats a big deal. That hasnt happened with soccer players as much. Not a bad person to want to be, to emulate. Last here, rachel, who do you see going all the way now . The big picks are argentina versus brazil in the final. Ive got to go with one of your producer, conner. Hes picking argentina. A beautiful cross in the game today. Its a good bet, but its fun. And certainly i think a lot of soccer fans who loved watching the American Team these past couple of weeks are still going to be flipping the dial and watching some of the games for the next week or so, because it is entertaining. Its great to see all the colors and the pageantry and the players. Its a fun thing to get into. Are you sure thats what he said in he just sounds like this, you know. Your irish producer. I know. Hes in my ear. What did you say again . Rachel, thank you very much. Just kidding, conner. Dont get upset. More reaction to tonights big game when we come right back. Lsd, the texas teen that is making a name for herself as a big game hunter and getting a lot of people pretty angry in the process. Plus, the uninvited guest who just might rain on your parade this Holiday Weekend whether you like it or not. As always, let us know what you think. Tweet us using the askdon. From safety. To fuel economy. To quality. Todays chevrolet has it all. And its a great time to buy. During the chevy 72 hour sale, youll get 0 apr for 72 months. Plus no Monthly Payments for the rest of the summer. 0 apr for 72 months plus no Monthly Payments for the rest of the summer. 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But you couldnt know the name until after you book . Did i say never . I didnt mean it. Well be here at lifelock doing our thing you do your share spontaneous moments thing, alerting you in ways your bank alone cant. Get lifelock protection and live life free. Welcome back, everyone. A lot to discuss here. A picture worth a thousand words. Take a look at this one. Texas teenager Kendall Jones celebrating her kill, an adult lion, which she shot on safari in africa. Lots of heated debate about this and about the other big story of the day, team usas world cup heartbreaker. So joining me now to discuss all of it, mel robbins, a cnn commentator and legal analyst. Marc lamont hill, cnn commenter, comedian and activist. Mr. Hal sparks and mandy stottmiller, editor at large for xo jane. Are you a soccer fanatic now . Im so happy america finally came around to knowing what every 10yearold in the country has known for a very long time, that soccer can be really fun. But make no mistake about it. We are going to stop caring in about five minutes. Were too new to the sport. Yeah. Mel, you may be right. You have a point there, right . Yes. Look, in many suburbs around the country, there are children that are born wearing a pair of soccer shorts. But once they go on into high school and parents realize theyre not going get recruited for college sports, their love affair with soccer ends abruptly. We dont care. Were out. Youre going to watch the tunein rates plummet, plummet, plummet, plummet. Soccer as soccer ends up being more beneficial for kids in that way in that there is no end game, no pun intended, and kids grow up to be things like scientists and lawyers after playing it and using it to develop physical. Its helpful that way. There is no illusion of, you know, a National Soccer situation in your future. Go ahead, mandy. I was just going say im definitely going to keep watching along with a lot of other women just for the guys. So i dont think there is going to be a whole lot of dropoff as long as the guys keep being really hot and sweaty. Its the high kicking. Yeah. So speaking of hot guys, marc lamont hill, im talk about tim howard. Im joking. What was your favorite moment . Tim howard on fire today. He was on fire that was the most exciting part of the whole thing. Watching him set records and watch him be awesome. I sort of watched it through twitter. I know you love watching soccer because it brings everybody together in real life. But i still watch tonight internet. And everybody was tweeting about tim howard. Everyone was saying he is the real mvp, how awesome he was. It was great to watch him rise to the occasion. Like hal said, five minutes from now, its all over. I think mel is right. We werent communicating with each other on this. People were sitting around, socializing, eating in the newsroom. I was wow. This is great. This is like 1985 all over again. So lets move on now. I want to talk about 19yearold Kendall Jones starting some outrage. She is a cheerleader from cleburne, texas, under fire with Animal Rights activists over her controversial Facebook Page where she has posted photos of herself with a rifle posing over bodies of recently killed animals. Mel, what is your take on this . Well, you know, im from the midwest, don. Grew up with a dad who is a duck hunter. So if you want to sit in a deer stand with a bow and arrow and wait eight hours, or you want to stay in a duck blind and sit in the freezing cold for seven hours with a rifle that is one thing. If your daddy flies you over to africa in a jet so that you can post photos on your Facebook Page which youve labeled public figure as a 19yearold and youre using an assault weapon to kill what are otherwise endangered animals, i hardly call that hunting and find it quite offensive. I was so scared you were going to agree with this. We actually agree on something tonight. This is awful. And she is doing this to push her own agenda. She is trying to get a tv show hunting. And she says she is trying to help conserve the animals. She says these are areas where the animals would die and starve. Its bs. Its not true. Its propaganda that animal hunters say it and its not true. Hal, why the strange face . As someone who is originally from the south, i know that when it comes to animal conservation, our one solution always seems to be to shoot some of them. I dont know why. We cant come up with a better plan than maybe we should just blow a couple of them away. That would solve it. Its all perfectly legal, though. Its legal. There. Are a lot of things that are legal that are no good. Her smile that she makes i think just adds to the outrage. Because she looks just like she is, you know and she is a cheerleader, i think. The biggest crime here, the biggest crime here in many ways i think is that she is doing a behavior that is usually reserved for pudgy, balding, viagraseeking man. And suddenly the fact that a blond cheerleader is doing is the offensive part. The reality sits offensive when any of these idiot. You dont need to cull a herd of endangered species. Its silly. What do you have against pudgy balding men on viagra . Whats wrong . Why are you discriminating . Well, the Supreme Court didnt victim nate against them today, only women. I just want to make my point. I think she is doing these pictures the same way that a lot of other teenagers are taking selfies with, you know, the latest jewelry and makeup. And she is doing with these endangered animals. And she has the same understanding that they do. Theyre beyond endangered. Theyre dead. Her says she has been hunting big game in africa since she was 13 years old. And they think people are bothered by it because of her age. Oh, that makes it better. This is what i want to say this. Is the statement that lengthy statement today, kendall did. I guess it was through her representatives and she explains this whole trip to zimbabwe. She says all of kendalls hunts in zimbabwe and south africa were 100 legal with proper tags and licenses awarded on a preapproved quota by the countries officials and wildlife department. And she actually in the statement, have i the full statement here, she is saying, and her representatives that it actually helped the population in conservation because she was killing animals that killed other herds. Okay. Let me say one thing about that, because that is a lie that is often told by animal hunters. The problem is when you go out and kill particular animals for that purpose, you actually get the big ones, the big shiny ones, the strong ones, the one withes you kill are the ones that have the strongest survival codes and genetic codes. As a result, the ones that stay are the weaker species. When they reproduce, you actually help kill off the herd because they dont have the strongest genes. It actually doesnt work. Wow. In her defense a zooologist. I love it. Go, mandy. In her defense mandy, mandy, mandy, go ahead. One of her pictures, i think it was the rhino she clarified that the animal wasnt dead. The animal was actually being treated and was put under and wasnt dead like the other ones. And she said while you were sending me death threats, i was actually helping this animal. So i dont like to do black and white. She is completely evil. She terrifies me, but i dont think that if you go in a room and kill five people and treat a wound on the sixth person, that doesnt make you often. But she is also 19 years old. Yeah. Her family probably bears more responsibility on her if youre going to be outraged by it. Its more reflective of its more reflective of social lazy rich people behavior than it is of her in particular. 50,000 names on facebook calls for her to remove her page. Currently three online petitions. What should they do, mel . Keep it. I mean, there is still a market for this. Leave it up. Just because she is offending us and basically saying oh, im a hunter, yet its all financed by my daddy and i go over to africa to hunt with my assault rifle, and im only culling out the biggest and baddest animals, and im helping the conservationists. Which the reason why people are outraged is america hates liars. And this smacks of a lack of authenticity. If you want to pose with a bunch of dead big animals because its going to get you a reality show, say that. But dont send us this bs that its helping the conservation effort in africa, because thats offensive. But we also love hunting and we love guns as well. But stay with me, everybody. 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No matter how fast your Business Needs to adapt, if hp Big Data Solutions can keep wireless customers smiling, imagine what they can do for yours. Make it matter. Lots of strong opinions tonight about celebrities behaving badly. From Adam Richmond to robin thicke. Back with me now mel robbins, marc lamont hill, mark sparks and mandy stadtmiller. The new show man finds food shortly after he got into an instagram food over his use of the tash tag thinspiration. He recently lost 70 pounds and was showing off his thin body. Apparently the word thinsperafion is often used in annexia circles. Did you know anything about this . We ran a story on xojane who was written by the main woman who got in a fight with him, and he called her the c word and then he told another critic that they should take a razor blade and go to the bath and no one would miss them if they killed themselves. And thats when i think things started to go wrong is because people were saying darn it. Lets stick to the first part of the story that did go wrong. But lets stick to the first part. Did you guys know about honestly, there wouldnt be a story. He hasnt done that. Yeah, there wouldnt have been a story. He said listen, i dont know what thinspiration. I think the women on the panel did. We know about thigh gaps and all sorts of awful stuff related to body image. Still, this doesnt have to do with thinspiration. Go ahead. The suggestion i was making, it seemed to bridge out of him not knowing what that word meant either. And the initial confrontation with him about it was calling him a d list celebrity, was very derogatory. He got into a fight. Im not excusing his behavior into this at all. But both of these are very important issues, anorexia and bulimia and how you deal with this. If youre trying to make people aware, that doesnt help to immediately assume he knows and start criticizing a guy who just lost the weight. We have such an issue with food in this country. Interestingly enough, both of them seem to be like theyre trying to get healthier and make sure other people are healthy, whether its undereating or overeating is one thing. The ironic thing is this is over a show called man versus food. Thats what happened. Art is imitating life here. Here is the thing. As mandy was saying, so he ended up apologizing. Instead of apologizing, he replied to people on his Instagram Account who commented, grab a razor blade and draw a bath. I doubt anyone will miss you. And thats hardly the way that you draw a line. Thats hard the way you respond. That. Never works. And thats the reason he got in trouble. I have to say listening to his apology today, it just so read like it was worked on by, you know, five of the top crisis pr experts. It just didnt seem authentic. Let me read it for you. Yeah. He says i have struggled with my body image and have worked hard to achieve a healthy weight. Im incredibly sorry to everyone i hate ive hurt. Im sorry. That too. Thank you. I think here is the thing. I think oftentimes this is what happens when youre on the internet and youre having these types of exchanges. I dont think the thinspiration was to promote. He just didnt know anybody. Some who called him on it were nice and gentle. Others were gentlemen, about it. He responded to everybodys as if they were a jerk. He went way over the top. Once youre defensive like that you keep doubling down on it and he just couldnt stop. He clearly lost his mind somewhere. I wonder who i just offered that advice to. Somebody, i think, maybe on the panel. Moving along moving on. 10 seriously, but sometimes you just leave them in the dark, right, instead of responding to it. Thats the best advice ever. Dont respond to the comments. Especially after you have had a few cocktails. At time of night . It doesnt excuse it. But i wouldnt be surprised. What does alcohol have to do with it . Maybe youre just a sober jerk. Thats true. I dont care how drunk you are, you dont call people the c word. Oh, yeah you do. Booze brings that out many you . You have bigger fish to fry. Yes, it does. Yes, it does. Ask mel gibson. Its real simple. If youre famous and youre a celebrity and you have a tv show, you should be arguing with people in the comments section. If a Million People are tweeting you, you dont respond to the tweets. Don, im sure youve done it before. But im saying its not good advice because you always end up in a bad place. It never works out well. You never win. And if youre a public figure, you have to accept the fact that you are going to be a punching bag and you just have to send nasty emails pitching people out in your head. Dont read them. End up lying on television. For the record, nobody on this panel or anybody even watching is sorry about everyone they have ever hurt. Here we go. Lets move on. Lets talk about someone who is really sorry that he hurt someone, and that is robin thicke. And he is getting a lot of backlash on twitter as well today, because his Public Campaign to win back his estranged exwife paula patton, theyre not divorced. His estranged wife. He took part in a twitter q a today, the askthicke. And it was brutal, completely brutal. I feel bad for this guy. I really do. Oh i was and hey, paul, the whole audience groaned. Then he does the ask thick , which is always an invitation for bad things to happen. We saw this a month ago that said upload your favorite pictures of the nypd and people were showing police brutality. Its open season. Unless youre super famous and universally loved, which is very few people, you dont do an open air campaign to ask questions because everyone after that song blurred lines and theyre going to keep doing it for the next ten years. Because they say its promotes rape culture. Its a rapy song. You know you want it. Its a date rape song. Look, this is not an album. This is a reality show in audio form. Its arguably like if kim and kanye did a soundtrack instead of a series, this would be it. And these days, that kind of like drawing your audience in and creating this kind of false, you know, like drama, its a better way to drive album sales quite frankly because it makes you engaged, more so than just here is some songs in the abstract about somebody im in love with. Mao you have the reality show attachment. And i think thats what he is going for. It just seems that con trooifd. Mel . I dont think she is in on it, though. I dont think she is in on it. And im afraid that the next album is going to be called restraining order. Well, the next album is called paula. So does he win her back, mel . No. And in fact, the one story that nobody is talking about is that everyone in america can learn something from paula. Obviously robin thicke did something, whether its prancing around with naked people or gyrating behind miley cyrus or cheating on or whatever it is that pissed her off. And the bottom line, she is using what every man has ever used, which is called tease and denial. Clearly she pushed him away. She is avoiding him. Its driving him crazy. So ladies its driving a lot of americans crazy as well. All of us crazy. Now. Yes, yes. So if somebody ever tease, deny them attention. Tease and denial is my bands next album. Hall sparks, hallsparks. Com for upcoming projects. Thank you, marc, thank you, hal, and mandy as well. Coming up, why so many of americas preschoolers are being kicked out of school, and how it can ruin the rest of their lives. F provokes lust. It elicits pride. Incites envy. And unleashes wrath. Temptation comes in many heartpounding forms. But only one letter. F. The performance marque from lexus. Ugh. Heartburn. Did someone say burn . Try alka seltzer reliefchews. They work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. Mmm. Amazing. Yeah, i get that a lot. Alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. Where its biggest refinery has been attacked. More chaos over there means higher prices here but we can take control with Renewable Fuels like ethanol. It means more jobs and more security. Less pollution and less pain at the pump. Because its time to stop letting chaos decide our. Energy future. Tell congress and the epa to stand up to big oil. Dont gut the renewable fuel standard. Imagine your 3yearold being kicked out of preschool. It happens a lot more often than you might think. Especially to black children. It could be the start of a downward spiral that ruins their lives. Cnns sara sidner looks at the preschool to prison pipeline. Cat in the hat. Reporter 4yearold jj and 3yearold brother noah is doing what children their age do. Running and playing one minute, pushing the next. When they act up at home, theyre disciplined. I think theyre typical 3 and 4yearolds. Reporter but at school . He has been suspended about five times. Reporter at three . At three. And i cant make this up. I wish i was. He hit one of the teachers on the arm and they sent him home. And they said that they considered that hitting to be a danger to the staff. Reporter the most recent report says 7500 children nationwide were suspended at least once from public preschool. Yes, preschool. The alarming numbers reported by the department of education also say black students are being suspended and expelled at a rate three times greater than white kids across all grades. We know there is a correlation between doing out of School Suspensions and expulsions and ultimately locking kids up. Far too many children in our communities the school to prison pipeline is real. And the fact that its starts as young as 4, again, simply isnt good enough. Reporter in los angeles, americas second Largest School district, superintendent john deasy finds the trend disturbing. Why are these numbers playing out this way . I think theyre the same biases that are in society. Thing is a reflection of the growth we have yet to do in this country around these issues. What shocked him, the reason. The majority of suspensions in his district were for something called willful defiance. It was things like failure to do homework, failure to bring your notebook to class. Thats not willful defiance. Thats adolescence. Reporter a year ago, the district became the first in the nation to remove willful defiance as a reason for suspensions, and the numbers have dropped ever since. Three years ago, there were 19,000 suspensions. This year, 8,000. The Teachers Union never took a stance on the issue, with some teachers saying willful defiance has been abused and others saying it takes an important disciplinary tool away from their classrooms. I teach my kids all the time. Education is your passport. Reporter Tunette Powell learned that the hard way. Long before her sons were born, she was labelled a troublemaker. As the daughter of a drug addicted father, she struggled in school and life. I was expelled from school when i was 3 years old in preschool. And when i first got the phone call about about jj, i immediately thought back to that. You know, at a young age, i was told that i was bad kid in school. Reporter tunette proved them wrong, eventually got her college degree, wrote a book, and became an accomplished public speaker, even giving a ted talk. The powells have worked hard to make a good life for their children. My biggest fear is that theyll be labeled and that theyll believe it. Reporter every day she fights to inspire her boys. More a preschool to premed mentality. Go reporter than preschool to prison. Sara sidner, cnn, omaha. Sara, thank you very much. What do we do about this preschool to prison timeline, and what will it take for us to do right by all of our kids . Joining me now is a man who has a lot to say about that. Education secretary arne duncan. Welcome. Thank you so much, don, for the opportunity. Lets talk about this report. Its finding a shocking number of preschoolers are being suspended, and that across the board, far more black students are being suspended or expelled than whites. What is going on . Im so proud of our civil rights for doing this massive data collection. And as a nation, weve had a lack of transparency, a lack of information on these critically important issues. And i have to say, i learned something every day that is new, don. I had no idea, none, that as a nation, we were suspending or expelling 7,500 3 and 4yearolds each year. It blew me away. The fact that 18 of our children preschool are black, but almost half, 48 of our black students are the ones being suspended or expelled. The racial dynamics of this are very, very tough. And we need to address this openly and honestly with the courage of leaders like john deasy in l. A. Who are looking at the brutal truth, looking at the facts and changing adult behavior to better support children. Lets talk a little bit more about the numbers. I have to tell you as well, i had no idea that so many kids were been suspended. Its stunning, stung. At preschool, lets put the numbers back up. 2011, 7500 preschoolers were suspended. Black students represent 18 of the total enrollment. They represent 48 of children suspended at least once. And then across the board, from kindergarten to 12th grade, 16 of black students are suspended or expelled versus 5 of white students. So why are so many preschoolers getting expelled, and why are we seeing again this Racial Disparity across the board here . Well, what i always say, don, when a child is acting out, thats always a symptom of a problem. Its never the root cause. And i think its incumbent upon us as adults to get to the root cause of what is going on that is causing that child to act out or to misbehave. Is it a challenge in school . Is it a challenge in community . Is it a challenge at home . And when we suspend and expel, we dont deal with the root cause. We avoid it and may be exacerbating the problems. The harder thing to do is the child needs more time with a social worker, with a counselor. Do we need to bring the parents in and Work Together on these very tough issues. And as you know, i spend a lot of time working in the inner city on the south side of chicago. Children came to us with lots of challenges. But when you listen to them, when you paid attention, work with a family, you can transform their behavior. But putting them out and perpetrator waiting the school to prison pipeline, when we do that, we in education are part of the problem. And the fact that it starts so early is sad. Secretary, let me jump in there. If you saw in saras story there, it seems to intimate there was a reflection on racism as a society. That true . Is it part of a racial problem in america as the story contends . So this is let me be very clear there are clear Racial Disparities in the use of outofschool suspension and expulsions that is a real challenge. It is racism . I cant honestly say that, and we again dont begin to know whether these teachers are white teachers or black teachers whatever. It doesnt matter frankly to me. What does matter is we better train, equip adults to deal with these issues and take step likes the l. A. School system has been courageous enough to do to better support students who are struggling. So ive been to high schools that historically were very violent, had all kinds of challenges where adults are actually relinquishing giving up some of their power, moving towards peer juries, moving towards peer mediation and empowering the teenagers themselves to take ownership, take control of the culture in the schools. And guess what . Incidents of discipline and violence are going down. Very significantly. And they got rid of this willful defiance rule. And now that changed the numbers drastically in the right direction. Don, again, these children, 99. 9 of them, these are good kids, don, really good kids who need a little extra support or love or attention or clear expectations, high expectations. This is never about perpetuating an unsafe environment. But when we meet children halfway, they will more than meet us halfway. We as adults have to be willing to take the step and have the courage to deal with these tough issues openly and honestly and transparently and holding ourselves accountable each year for improving outcomes for young people who need to be in school, who desperately need a quality education. Listen, i was a bad kid, let me tell you. I was precocious. I dont believe it. You turned out just fine. Thank you. I appreciate you coming on. Lets do something about all. This we really do appreciate you. 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Most americans can agree that educating our kids can be a top priority. But are black students at a disadvantage from the start . Joining me is jason riley, please stop helping us, how liberals make it harder for blacks to succeed. And donna brazile. Good to see both of you. Youve heard the secretarys interview. We just interviewed him. Why do you think there ask a Racial Disparity in terms of white students being expelled . Why would you be surprised at seeing a Racial Disparity . Schools . You see Racial Disparity outside of schools. A huge Racial Disparity. Look who is filling our prisons and jails disproportionately black, young men. So the idea that this just starts after they leave school seems a little imapplause to believe me. My problem is what the secretary said is where the sympathies of this administration lie. Why are they with the troublemakers and not with the kids who are in school to learn . How do you help a child who is in school to get an education by making it tougher or pressuring schools to go easier on the bullies . Were talking about preschoolers here, though. Theyre making preschoolers the face of this problem. But preschoolers are not the face of this problem. This is something going on through middle school and particularly in high school. And remember, these kids, these black kids that are already attending some of the lowest performing schools, with some of the lowest performing teachers. Now were going to relegate them to the most violent schools as well . Again, i just dont see how this is in the interests of closing the achievement gap and helping the black underclass. Donna, you want to respond to that . First of all, children should be in school. They should be in school to learn. And the fact is that there is a very large amount of black kids, African American kids who are being kicked out for socalled disruptive behavior, and white kids who commit the same offense, theyre not being expelled or suspended. We know that this has a disproportionate impact not just on the child, but also on the school and the community. If we want to really address some serious issues, this is one where i think we need to all start by saying you know what . We need to bring everybody together. We need the school. We need the teachers, we need the administrators we need the elected officials. We need everybody to come together so that we can find a way to solve this problem. I have a niece who is a preschool teacher down in new orleans. She was in the ninth ward up until about two years ago. And what she tells me is that these kids, often when they come to school, they want to learn. But, you know, there is no one at home that says, you know, you got to sit down and learn. Often we give them ipads and some phone and they come to school, and they dont know how to sit and learn. She say by the end of the week, we got it down. But donna, that starts at home. Absolutely. Should that be a teachers problem . I read about this story when the problem first came out. Surprisingly, many teachers both black and white wrote me, don, you have no idea what were facing in the classroom. Some even at preschool. I wrote. I said surely a preschooler could not harm some adult. And they said oh, don, you dont know. Its a real problem. It happens, don. It happens. And jason, to your point, of course it happens. But we have to address it. Let jason respond as well. These kids are not coming from perfect homes, don. And so we have to. But what are we going to do than . Thats why i say we have to wrap our arms around the entire problem, not just expelling these kids. Okay. I got your point. Part of the problem, though, is this automatically ascribing racial animus when we dont see racial parity in outcomes. Whether were talking about school, discipline outcomes or other outcomes. Thats very troubling and very problematic. Why kids are suspended at higher rates than asian kids. S that also evidence of racial animus at work . Many of 25 of black of School Teachers in chicago are black. Around 20 in new york are black. Are they racially biased against black kids . I find it very troublesome to automatically jump to racial animus describing these outcomes. No one wants to talk about the behavior behind these disciplinary outcomes. Thats what were talk about. I see both of your points. What do we do . Donna, you should said we should Work Together, that students and parents and Everyone Needs to Work Together. What is the fix here . Well, clearly, we have to make sure that we give teachers the resources and the training they need. We have also make sure that the principals are involved and that we are working with social welfare aelgs agencies, the local law enforcement. But also parents. Everyone has to be brought into the room. Because we cannot solve this simply by is this a conservative problem as jason says . You know what . There are so many problems in the world that can be solved by partnership . This is an issue that needs to be solved from the heart. This is the future of our country. And thats where it should be solved. Jason . I would focus on giving these black parents more school choice. One of the Reasons School choice is so popular among blacks and the black poor in particular is because these alternatives to traditional Public Schools provide safer learning environments. There are Something Like 150,000 violent assaults on teacher. Okay, wrap it up, jason. A couple of years ago. This is an issue. This approach just simply reducing black suspension rates is not going to help the black kids in school to learn, and its not going to help teachers teach. Thats what were calling for. Our sympathy should be with the kids many school to learn. Last word. Thank you, jason riley, and thank you, donna brazile. We can go on forever. Don, don, i was a good kid in school, i was not. I was bad. I just told that to the education secretary. He said i was precocious, but i would say i was bad and i turned out okay. Thank you to both of you. Thank you. Coming up, why a guy named arthur might ruin your holiday vacation. Oom. Man oh hey, captain obvious. Captain obvious you should have used hotels. Com. Their genuine guest reviews are written by guests who have genuinely stayed there. Instead of people who lie on the internet. Captain heres a review, its worse in person. Cut [bell rings] this. Is jane. Her long day on set starts with shoulder pain. And a choice take 6 tylenol in a day which is 2 aleve for. All day relief. Hmm. [bell ring] roll sound action means keeping seven billion ctransactions flowing. G, and when weather hits, its data mayhem. But airlines running hp endtoend solutions are always calm during a storm. So if your business deals with the unexpected, hp big data and Cloud Solutions make sure you always know whats coming and are ready for it. Make it matter. Time now for cnn tonight. The stories you could be talking about tomorrow. It could be a wet one, a wet fourth of july along the east coast. The first Tropical Storm of the season named arthur has formed off eastern florida and could return in strength when it hits the outer banks in north carolina. Tomorrow the storm is expected to hit northeast, bringing showers as far as new york and boston. Sorry about that. Im don lemon. Thanks for watching. Ac 360 starts right now. Good evening, everyone. John berman here in for anderson, and breaking news tonight. Late word on Tropical Storm arthur, gaining strength for a run from florida to maine. Also tonight, what the folks here did to make it harder for you to find out about their first class junkets. Just when you thought congressional approval ratings