Transcripts For CNNW CNN Tonight 20140603

The reaction to his release has an odd. Someone emailed and asked if the administration timed the release to draw attention away from the Veterans Administration and some question whether the white house broke the law. And on top of that they negotiated with terrorists. Some immediately began to question sergeant bergdahls patriotism calling him a traitor and turn coat who walked away from combat. That military mantra, no man left behind that we have heard so much we have not heard much in the last few days, from many who openly supported going to war in afghanistan and iraq and claim to support the troops. Why is that . Why are we so concerned with how Bowe Bergdahl went missing than how he was saved. I dont think he was a deserter and i dont think anyone knows for sure except him. He is an american, a war veteran and sergeant who does not deserve to be left behind. As an american im happy he is safe and happy for his family. Im going to refrain from blaming the victim. In america, its innocent until proven guilty. But i want to begin with damage control. Everybody from Donald Sterling to Justin Bieber. In a wired world where everyone is listening. Who gets a pass and who pays a price for what they say . And i warn you some of the language is very offensive. Why are black people afraid of chain saws . Dont say it. The joke is racist. The joke teller, a then 15yearold pop star laughing at himself. Now five years older, Justin Bieber is on damage control, putting out a statement apologizing saying in part, quote, as a young man i didnt understand the power of certain words and how they can hurt. Boxer Floyd Mayweather says that we all make mistakes when we are young. Lee steinberg is a sports lane entertainment agent. Someone who is young and inexperienced and naive and treated in a different way than someone who is older and should know better. Reporter take the case of Donald Sterling. Who particularly cares what Justin Biebers opinion is on anything besides music. But to have an nba owner whos in a position of control in a league thats 75, 80, 85 africanamerican, is a completely different issue. Reporter the embattled own over the los angeles clippers, losing the nba team hes owned for more than 30 years because of his racist rant. Yeah, it bothers me a lot that you want to broadcast it that you are associating with black people. Reporter but some five weeks after his rant went viral, sterling is trying to rehabilitate his legacy showing up at a black church in south los angeles. The pastor who says he asked for not so much as a dime from sterling is reportedly, quote, helping sterling through this. People say dont do this. If im a christian, i have to love everybody. The time for sterling to go to that church is on the sunday following the saturday revelation of the conversation in the first place. Too little, too late. Reporter Donald Sterling and Justin Bieber proving that race is a lightning rod even in private. The most electric issue in american society. And that probably doesnt change in time soon. Reporter stephanie elam, cnn, los angeles. Were going to get to this dialogue right away on this subject right now. Joining me is Marc Lamont Hill and sunny hostin and frank bruni. This is a dream team tonight. Thank you all for joining me. Frank, im going to begin with you. Justin bieber, Donald Sterling both caught on tape with private remarks that later went public. Do these tapes reveal anything about what they really think . You raise a good point which is if things were said in private were made public we would think that our least true self were put out there. We say things off the cuff who dont reflect who we are. We can only divine so much about these individuals from what they said. And the interest that these are very, very different people in different circumstances. In Justin Bieber we dont know there is a long history of this. In Donald Sterlings case this came after discrimination lawsuits and a long history that suggests more than one comment. And sunny, he had these tapes for four years. How big of a difference does age make in this case . I dont think it makes a difference at all. I dont think you get a pass because of your age. I dont think that Donald Sterling got a pass. People are saying, well this is the age he grew up in. Thats why he said those things. Justin bieber, so what . He said it when he was 15. I think is it remarkable he said it while filming a video. He knew these words would be videotaped. I take him at his word he didnt realize how offensive they were. He said it openly and i think when you look at it in that sense and Marc Lamont Hill doing this. But when you look at it hike that, i think that we cant give people a pass for this kind of word. Im not saying you should get a total pass but i want to Say Something about the video camera. If you are Justin Bieber there are cameras all time and you dont assume every time it is rolling it is broadcast to the world. This is in 2006. His video came to light in 2007. This is before he was very popular. Listen, in his apology he says as a young man he didnt get the full power of the n word. Does a 15yearold get a pass on that . Sunny says no. I dont like the word pass because we pretend it didnt happen. But you cant hold someone prisoner to something they did when they were 15 years old. A few years ago a tape leaked of eminem using the n word in a rap. I dont believe he is a racist. I think he used a bad choice of words but i dont want to reduce him to that moment. The difference between Donald Sterling and Justin Bieber is two things. One is their age but two, Donald Sterling doesnt just call people the n word and treats people like the n word. I think its worse that Justin Bieber at 15 growing up in this day and age when we know that language is offensive he is my son is 11 years old and knows that but you are an n word fundamentalist. You like to use the n word. You think its okay for black people but not white people to use it. I dont use it in public. I dont use it on tv. Thats how i keep a job. But in my house i use it and you shouldnt. Its offensive. And im cool with. That its a different set of rules for Justin Bieber and at 15 you night not know those rules. But he needs to be challenged and critiqued. And Donald Sterling had discriminatory housing and workplace policies. That is worse than a 15yearold kid telling a stupid joke. Is he treated more leniently because he made a quick apology and took responsibility for his comments. Is that the difference here. We dont know how leniently he will be treated over the long run. I think that people do take his age into account, whether or not they should. I think they should. And i think that people look to see was this part of a long pattern . We dont have a bunch of other stuff like this. And as was just said, Donald Sterling we had allegations of actions that were as bad as the words. The words were a window into the way the man behaved. I think you were right and i was wrong, it happened before he was famous. But he was famous here. It was four years ago. Why are we willing to forgive some people and not others. Some are quick to forgive Justin Bieber and sterling is getting skewered. I think . Some cases it depends on what we think of and what we expect from the person. So Donald Sterling owned a business, he employed a lot of africanamerican people, for him to be acting this way, it has a weight and consequence that is difference from a pop star who has a history of silly things and all that. We dont expect the same rectitude from a 15yearold teeny bopper star than from someone who is a responsible businessman. When you talk about Justin Bieber you are talk about people that of that generation, they idolize him and model on him. What do they look to him for . They look to him as a model as a role model. They adore him. When you look at it in that sense what he says and his views are dangerous for this new generation what is acceptable and what isnt. Whether they are dangerous is different from the question of whether he will be for given and why. Paula deen doubled down at first. If your First Response is im not racist, i have four black friends or you explain how you misunderstood what you heard or saw. Thats when people find it problematic. Donald sterling did not apologize and say i was a jealous old crazy man and my girl was in he doubled down and came on television with anderson and doubled down again. Thats the problem. And Justin Bieber i doubt that he wrote the apology but someone who is very good wrote it for him. Thank you very much marc and sunny. Frank, stay with me. When we come back, truth and consequences, do we know the whole stories . And would we change our minds if we did know the whole stories . And Bowe Bergdahl. Should we negotiate with terrorists . Make sure you tweet us using the askdon. Were moving our company to new york state. The numbers are impressive. Over 400,000 new private sector jobs. Making new york state number two in the nation in new private sector job creation. With 10 Regional Development strategies to fit your business needs. And now its even better because theyve introduced startup new york. With the state creating dozens of taxfree zones where businesses pay no taxes for ten years. Become the next business to discover the new new york. [ male announcer ] see if your business qualifies. Ugh. Heartburn. Did someone say burn . Try alka seltzer reliefchews. They work just as fast and are proven to taste better than tums smoothies assorted fruit. Mmm. Amazing. Yeah, i get that a lot. Alka seltzer heartburn reliefchews. Enjoy the relief. Ben well, that was close you aint lying let quicken loans help you save your money. Free hot breakfast options. Hampton, enjoy our you did a great job. It looks good . Then fuel up with Double Points or double miles on your next getaway. Make every stay more rewarding and feel the hamptonality welcome back. We all have our opinions about the news of the day. And conversation debate, and argument, thats our stock and trade in cable news. But are we letting our opinions get ahead of the fact . In his New York Times column, frank bruni says that morals are deduced and lessons drawn. And frank bruni is back with me. I like the column. I thought it was interesting. You were talking about cable news a lot. I was talking about myself as well, too. Its my stock and trade. I plead guilty. You said. That and im a center here. I its close enough. I at a center in too many ways to get into tonight. So you are seeing a Common Thread in the way that recent stories are being coughed from v. Stiviano to cliven bundy. How are they related . Because of the marketplace of media and the metabolism of media is before the news story is out of the gate, the commentary and the opinions about it, the morals that are deduced and the lessons that are drawn, they travel so far and fast ahead of the known facts is they leave the known facts in the dust and we have more commentary than we do information. And people usually i always find people even if i write or Say Something, people wont read entirely or listen to what i say, they will read a headline what someone else determined that i said and that will carry the impact of the entire thing. And they will begin to react to it and people will react to their reacts and at some point, people cant tell you what the seed of it is was. This talks about it more. You said something happens and before the facts are settled the stories is absorbed into agendas and everyone has a preferred take on it and particular use for it and as one person after another position sits the truth knowable truth is left in the dust. We were just what troubles you most about this . What troubles me most about is it the proportion. I think commentary what we are doing and what i try to do in print, i think that is important. But it used to be the news economy used to be such that was in a different proportion with information gathering. A lot of things have happened to the economies of it and with social media where the commentary is eclipsing the information. I think we all need to pause and ask ourselves what that means and those of us who are doing commentary make sure when we are take a piece of taffy were not stretching it too far beyond recognition. You wouldnt argue that reporting is out the window, right . You look at the New York Times and cnn and what drew griffin did on the v. A. Scandal. Shinseki is out because people called for his resignation. Do opinions create accountability . But they have to be built on the reporting. What leads to an ouster and the changes you are referring to they wouldnt happen if it was all opinion. They are built on a foundation of facts. And facts were beyond dispute. Yeah, there is a lot of information gathering and news gathering out there. We do a lot of it. Cnn should be proud of itself but when you look at the way the media has grown you see venues that are all riffing. And i think that has got out of proportion and we all need to watch it and be careful about our own consumption. Make sure we what we are look to and what we believe is information from is information and isnt instant analysis that is far from the facts. For as much criticism we get, im proud of when something breaks out in some corner of the world and someone will say who is that guy . And i say thats where he is stationed every day. You dont see him because there is no news to cover there. Im proud of that with the times. But when you stray beyond our news organizations the number of correspondents posted in key places has diminished over time. You write, with just a few clicks of the mouse or taps on the remote they find something to confirm their prejudices and the gratification is almost instant. You are talking about social media. But you could be talking about people who watch a liberal network to have their liberal believes confirmed and a conservative network to do the same. Im talking about the irony where we have more Television Channels than before and an infinite number of directions to travel on the internet and they cure rate the options down to what they want to believe instead of using the technology of ours to open a broader universe to themselves they just find this rut and they stay in it because theres so many different venues that will just satisfy, vindicate, validate what they already believe. I understand your column tomorrow is about Hillary Clinton and andrew cuomo. And that is a tease. Frank bruni, thank you for coming in. Thank you for teasing me, don. When we come back, stranger than fiction. This story is all too real. The return of sergeant Bowe Bergdahl after five years. It is a dangerous precedent . [ male announcer ] great rates for great rides. Geico motorcycle, see how much you could save. [olive gardensr ] grelatest iyou ration . Rides. You told us your number one olive garden dishes. 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Thats what john perez faced when he became speaker of the california assembly. So he partnered with Governor Brown to pass three balanced budgets, on time. For the first time in thirty years. Today, the deficits are gone and weve invested an additional 2 billion dollars in education. Now john perez is running for controller, to keep fighting for balanced budgets. Democrat john perez for controller. Take the nestea plunge. Nothing refreshes like nestea. Sergeant Bowe Bergdahls release after five years of taliban captivity sounds like the plot of show times homeland where an american p. O. W. Returns home after years as a prisoner. Im an american. Turns out hes one of ours. Marine Sergeant Nicholas brodie. M. I. A. Since 2003 and presumed dead until now. Sergeant bergdahl is in stable condition at a u. S. Military hospital in germany. Once he is cleared for travel he will be transported to a military medical facility in texas. But questions are swirling about his capture and release. Even as sergeant Bowe Bergdahl recuperates in a hospital in germany for family and friends at home, celebration. It was a sense of relief and amazement. Reporter but in washington consternation. Some lawmakers are calling the swap for five members of the taliban held at Guantanamo Bay ill advised and dangerous even if they will be held in qatar for a year. There is no doubt we entered the fight. Reporter the Prisoner Exchange is complicated in many ways. First, some of bergdahls fellow troops insist he fell into taliban hands after walking away from his post. He is not being charged with desertion but six americans died trying to find him. Hes at best a deserter and at worst a tray or, any of us would have died for him. And for him to just leave us like, that it was a very big betrayal. Reporter the second issue, the law, the white house must Tell Congress ahead of any such deal and some legal analysts say that never happened but the administration insists it has talked about this exchange for years. This should not have been a surprise to any of the members of congress. Reporter third president s have long insists that the United States does not negotiate with terrorists, never mind that nixon, carter, reagan, and clinton, among others, made deals that critics say violated that principle. This exchange has struck a nerve, the central concern that the message sent is that capturing americans can be a rewarding business. So what does that mean to other americans already being held elsewhere such as kenneth bae . No one knows. And no one knows what is ahead for bergdahl. Bowe has been gone so long it will be difficult to come back. Difficult and not just for him. Tom foreman, cnn, washington. Thank you, tom. A lot of questions in the wake of Bowe Bergdahls release. The most heated . Should we be in the business of negotiating with terrorists . Joining me is Alan Dershowitz. He is the author of taking the stand my life in the law lets talk about this. Obviously, a deeply controversial issue. Where do you stand here . What message does it send out . First of all it should not be a political or partisan issue. This is a national problem. I wish and i know many others wish we had never embarked on the process of negotiating with terrorists. It began many years ago when the germans who gave up prisoners and the british gave up prisoners and the french gave up prisoners. It encouraged terrorism. It made terrorism profitable. I wrote a book about terrorism and it works because the terrorists get their ways. The palestinians have more prominence than the kurds and tibetans because they have engaged in terrorism and brought themselves into international attention. I wish we hadnt gone down this line. But is it compelling when you have a particular prisoner, the families and his health is in danger. Right. Its so hard to resist. But if we had had a policy from day one and stuck to that policy i think wed have far less terrorism and far fewer captures of americans as bargaining chips to release other prisoners. You said it should not be a political event but it has become politicized, hadnt it . I think it would have been just as politicized if a republican had done it. This is not a time for name calling but to reassess american policy and is it a policy implemented by democrats and republicans alike. Well said, alan. I want to talk about the president. The president is being criticized about allegedly breaking the law about notifying congress. The g. O. P. Want hearings. But president obama did it on, you know, on his own but a few people knew. Did the president break the law . I dont think so. The president is the commanderinchief and has authority to implement American Foreign policy. If the statute were to be con trued to require the president to consult with congress that statute might be unconstitutional. So i think its a terrible mistake to make this into a partisan issue. Lets have a debate about whether Going Forward we should draw a line in the sand now and say no further negotiations with terrorists about captured prisoners. Dont make it an incentive for them to capture more prisoners and put bounties on the head of american soldiers. The mistake took place many years ago and the blame is broad enough to go around. Senator lindsay gram called the five prisoners a Taliban Dream Team and their release is a threat to National Security. The five terrorists released were the hardest of the hard core and have american blood on their hands and sure as night follows day, they will return to fight. Are they a threat to National Security . One has to assume they are a threat to National Security. We have been promised they will be watched carefully for a year. But when you make a deal like this you have to assume that prisoners with this kind of authority with blood on their hands are zealously committed to repeating their terrorism and they will go back and commit terrorism. I think that the assumption when you make the deal has to be that it may cost additional lives. So the question is, unknown lives in the future versus known life. And when you is a name and a face associated with a person, that person assumes more value than some abstract people who might die in the future. Thats why emotionally we are inclined to make the deal. Rationally, its a bad deal. Alan, stay with me there. Its easy to say never negotiate with terrorists unless its your child or spouses life at stake. Lets get personal with this debate, next. Our name your price tool helps jamie, youve got a Little Something on the back of your shoe, there. 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I dont believe you can categorically say you should either never negotiate with an evil adversary or should always negotiate because thats the way you can make peace it very much depends on context and a careful assessment of the costs and benefits and what your alternatives are. The war in afghanistan for the United States is certainly winding down and i think its an appreciate time for us to make a deal with the taliban. Indeed, both the Afghan Government and our government in various ways has for several years been exploring whether it might not be possible to negotiate with the taliban. Ann, senators john mccain and Lindsay Graham have claimed that these are the hardest of the hard core prisoners and they will be hell bent on getting revenge on america. Should this deal have been done in your estimation . It doesnt seem like a very good deal me. Im basing it on what has been on the news on cnn, cbs, abc, daily beast, not only are these five of the worst terrorists to release, i do agree that obama just wanted to get rid of them and give them a trial. And either acquit them and let them go or shoot them or put them in prison for a long time. But i think he just wanted to get rid of them and i dont think the deal at the other end looks good to get out an american who was accused by the members of his unit of being a deserter and cost americans looking for him six american lives. I dont know if you saw the parents of one of the men killed looking for Bowe Bergdahl they said, im glad they got their kid back, but we will never get our son back. He was killed looking for your son and three days before deserting saying he was ashamed to be an american and america is a disgusting country. I dont think we know for sure. And no one knows for sure except for Bowe Bergdahl whether or not he was a deserter or not. The emails are the emails and no one is coming out saying he didnt send those emails. And this is why there is a law requiring the president to check with congress and to inform them 30 days before such a deal. Not such a deal but before releasing anyone from guantanamo and to ensure us that they are not dangerous. That wasnt done and now it looks like a bad deal. The taliban named these five men. What does it tell us about these men . This was the only deal on the table. This deal has been the subject of negotiations between the United States and representatives of the taliban going back now for almost three years. There was no other deal. It was this deal or nothing. You had two policies, one is dont leave anybody behind. The other one is dont talk to terrorists and the question these are both policies, theyre not laws. The question is which trumps the other . And in this case, leave no man behind trumped the other one. Alan, you heard ann said that most americans wanted these five to be at least tried. Do you think they should have been tried . I dont know what the evidence is against them. There were people held in guantanamo who are terrorists who are going to commit new acts of terrorism who cannot be tried because the evidence comes from sources we dont want to disclose. So were stuck with some people who we cant release and we cant try and we cant keep confining under the law but its i dont believe this was motivated by a desire to get rid of these five people but by a genuine desire to bring someone home. He is an american soldier who was left behind. We have that policy. I just wish i also agree with bob that in general, i dont see any problem with at the end of a war, trying to negotiate some kind of a peaceful resolution, even with the devil. What im concerned about is a general policy that says if you kidnap one of our soldiers we will go into negotiation with you and give you a multiple whether israel giving a thousand prisoners back or us giving back five prisoners. I think that general willingness sends a very, very dangerous message. I want you to hold that thought. I want to ask ann, what about the soldiers creed . No man left behind. Well, first of all, i dont think you can quite get out of this by saying we dont know now he is a deserter when his unit is saying he is a deserter. It relevant but dont you think he should be tried for it. In this country its innocent until proven guilty. If he is a deserter what im saying is what im saying is stop referring to him as left behind. He wanted to stay. He was ashamed we dont know he wanted to stay, ann. Okay. We dont know a lot of people are unhappy about the war. We dont know he was left behind. Its not an argument to say we left him behind. We dont know. That from the people who were there, he walked off after say he was ashamed and disgusted to be an american. But he definitely wanted to come back. We know that from the videotapes. There came a time whatever his statements were he desperately wanted to be returned. It is not left behind. It is if he wants to come back and we robert, go ahead. Well, i think that in fact, we should not be deciding whether or not an american soldier were going to try to rescue him or whether were trying to negotiate for his release by presuming some kind of guilt in determines of desertion or anything else. This man hadnt been tried. They tried to rescue him. Exactly. And americans died. Well let me finish. The reason they tried to rescue him is because they werent going to prejudge him. They were going to treat him sorry. We lost him there. Well get him back and get back after the break. When we come back, is this the case of the white house playing politics . 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He used some words of the language of the taliban. He made every effort as any father would to understand who had taken his son and to understand their world view. Robert, president obama made a Campaign Promise to close Guantanamo Bay. Is this just part of moving forward on that promise if he can get one man back in exchange, all the better . I dont think this decision was made on the basis of wanting to close guantanamo. He certainly remains of the view that it should be closed. I think this was done on the merits. I think there appeared to be an opportunity finally to make a deal with the taliban. Obviously, people could disagree about whether the price was too high or not. It involved some speculation about what these middleaged guys might do in the future. But my own view is that it was a perfectly plausible decision to make. And i i guess i cant unlike alan, i think a categorical notion that you will never negotiate with an evil adversary because the incentive effects may be too great, the empirical evidence doesnt bear it out. No one has been a worse offender than the israelis. They traded a thousand people. They traded 65 people in 1998 for the remains of one dead israeli. Robert we get the point. But i hear alan saying thats not my belief. I want you to clarify. My belief is not that we should never negotiate regardless of what the issue to negotiate is, my point is that we should not have a policy of being willing to Exchange Prisoners for people who have been captured. I think its been a serious mistake to do that with israel. What happened years ago. Women should be allowed to fly as air force pilots. The brass said no, because the fact if a woman were captured the stakes would be higher. The emotional need to bring back a woman makes the price even higher. And right now, i think we are going to see more bounties on the heads of american soldiers and more efforts to capture american soldiers. We have sent a message to the taliban, the more you capture, the more that will go free. Alan the taliban is always trying to capture american soldiers. Thats what they do. But ann, if we if we had never negotiated with them and never freed anybody im not sure they would be going after soldiers they knew point taken. Last week we were knee deep in the v. A. Scandal. And there is murmuring of the timing of this deal, knocking an embarrassing story off the front page. Is that fair . Um i dont think it works. I think this is this is in many ways worse and its really captivated peoples attention to have Bowe Bergdahls father standing in the rose garden speaking in arabic and thanking allah and he is thanking the government of qatar. The trade was not a good deal here. I dont know if i have a clear position one way or the other. I dont think we should negotiate with terrorists for hostages. Sometimes the heart strings will be pulled. And when it is done it should be done the way that reagan did it working with a cutout and going through various countries. Thank you everyone. We have to go. Appreciate all of you. When we come back, what just might be the nastiest primary battle this season so far anyway. Sea captain theres a narratorstorm cominhe storm narrator that whipped through the turbine which poured. Surplus energy into the plant which generously lowered its price and tipped off the house which used all that energy to stay warm through the storm. Chipmunk theres a bad storm comin narrator the internet of everything is changing how energy works. Is your Network Ready . Now theyre part of our 2 for 25 guest favorites r one olive garden dishes. Featuring your all Time Favorite creamy chicken alfredo and seductive shrimp mezzaluna. Its our most inspired 2 for 25 ever. At olive garden. You know that dream. On my count. The one where you step up and save the day . Make it happen. crowd oh no. Introducing verizon xlte. Hey guys, i got it right here weve doubled our 4g lte bandwidth in cities coast to coast. So take on more. With xlte. For best results, use verizon. Before we go we have breaking news out of california. The hunt for a San Francisco man accused of having explosives at his home is over. Ryan Kelly Chamberlain is in custody. Law enforcement tells cnn he was arrested near the golden gate bridge. Now the stories you will be talking about tomorrow. President obama has departed washington on a fourday trip to europe for the g7 meeting. Meanwhile here at home, voters in eight states head to the polls in primary elections tomorrow. In mississippi, its one of the nastiest races so far this election season. And also tomorrow im going to be talking to the Actor Morgan Freeman he is back with a new project and asking a question, is poverty genetic. Morrison freeman tomorrow on cnn tonight. Thats it for us tonight. Captions by vitac www. Vitac. Com good evening. Ordinarily the release of an American Service member after five years of captivity would cause celebration and joy but in the case of Army Sergeant Bowe Bergdahl, only americas prisoner of war in afghanistan that is not entirely so. Little thats ordinary and nothing simple or free of controversy about his story. How he vanished was captured by a taliban group. What he said before this disappearing in a letter home that was sharply critical of american policy. Then theres the trade of five Guantanamo Bay detainees. Whether the Obama Administration broke the law in making the deal. And is sending out mixed messages about the whole thing. Well talk about it all tonight. Youll hear from all sides including a soldier who served with Bowe Bergdahl who says he