Transcripts For CNNW CNN Special Report 20200816

There are some issues, for better or worse i tried a hail mary. I decided maybe someone should take a stand. We were the Bad News Bears of the political world. Going rogue meant taking risks. Did you think you were committing a crime . No. No. We were fined 1,000. And the backlash was brutal. A desperate political play to try to keep one man from becoming president. No ones used the Electoral College this way. You thought you had the power to change history . I thought we had the power to prevent a demagogue from taking office. On the path to defeating donald trump. America should not take lectures on Racial Justice from joe biden. Were going to be in unchartered territory. This is a pandoras box. Tonight a cnn special report, count on controversy inside the Electoral College. Please welcome the next president of the United States. Election year 2016. Lyin crooked, hillary. An unqualified loose cannon. It was a very divisive election. You had two candidates that many people considered to be toxic. The only thing she has going is the womans card. Heres the sad truth, there is no other donald trump. This is it. But behind the headlines, something was happening, america was in for a historic surprise. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and around the world. It is election day in america. What are you hearing about early returns so far . Very good. Everything is very good. I was a little stressed out i the morning. Michael was more stressed than most. His vote in his election was still a month away. I think most people in this country didnt think that donald trump was going to wing. I fully expected Hillary Clinton to win the presidency and cast the ballot for Hillary Clinton. He was one of 538 electors chosen months before election day. Each elector must vote separately for the president and Vice President. They would make up the Electoral College to cast the official votes for president and Vice President in december, a month after the general election. As a democratic elector from colorado, everyone assumed he would cast his vote for the candidate who won the popular vote in colorado, Hillary Clinton. Cnn can now project the state of colorado will go to Hillary Clinton with its nine electoral votes. As america watched the map on election night, some states, more unexpected states turned red. Lets take a look at the map right now, you see donald trump has taken the lead. The magic of the election you start seeing whats happening in pennsylvania. Thats also happening in michigan. Lock her up, loch her up. Its also happening in wisconsin. Vote, baby, vote. Very similar places where people do the same things, they work the same jobs, have the same median income. The community is overwhelmingly white, middle class. Trump winning ohio, florida and north carolina. I was at the watch parties it became clear donald trump was going to win the Electoral College. He won. And he reset the map. He blew it up. Its one thing to win a map, but another to win the most votes. Trump had a clear win in the Electoral College. But a significant deficit in actual ballots. Trailing Hillary Clinton by nearly 3 million votes, making it only the fifth time in u. S. History a president has lost the popular vote and still won the presidency. The very system he derided just four years earlier as a disaster for a democracy, a total sham and a travesty. That system paves his way to the white house. Not my president. Not my president. A recipe for rankor and confusion. Some people are still furious with the result of the election. Clearly theres chaos sometimes. People are angry. Its a huge problem that americans dont understand the president ial election system. Mostly because theres controversy. Your first instinct is to blame the Electoral College. This wasnt the first time count my vote. It appeared bush sealed the deal in florida. But now with only hundreds of votes separated the candidates, a recount is expected. In 2000, in one of the closest president ial contests weve ever had, george w. Bush had 271 Electoral College votes. Al gore won the popular vote in that election, by 500,000 votes. 2. 9 million voters in florida voted for al gore. 2. 9 million voters voted for the democratic candidate. What did those votes end up mattering in the president ial election . Zero. He got zero electoral votes in florida. Thats because of the Electoral College and his winner take all system. George walker bush has won floridas 25 electoral votes. Theres this Great American notion of one person, one vote. How does the Electoral College align with that . Given winner take all, its a grotesque disorganization of one person one vote. If you win a state by one vote you get all the Electoral College votes in that state, which could lead to pretty strong disproportionate outcomes. Revote, revote. Our system is a winner take all. It can be frustrating. Gore must concede. It was a close election in florida. And i think the wonderful thing about the Electoral College, we were able to isolate our problems to florida that year. We argued over hanging chads in a few counties in florida. Imagine if we had been forced to conduct a recount of the entire election. That would be a nightmare. In 2016, 95 of candidate appearances and 99 of Campaign Spending happened in just 14 states. The swing states. But the rest of the country, the majority of the country. States like new york, texas, oklahoma, utah, montana, those states which are not swing states, they dont matter to the president ial candidate. And for some, thats a problem. Because those 14 states dont always represent 50. This is a system that systematically says to people, you dont matter if you dont come from a swing state. Even if you come from a swing state, like florida. If you dont happen to be in the majority, were going to count your votes for the purpose of just throwing them away. This comes back to a pretty important question of legitimacy. Its unsettling to many, confusing to many. Keep america great. Even more unsettling to some, it could happen again in an even bigger fashion. Donald trump trailed by almost 3 million votes in 2016. In 2020, he could conceivably trail by even more and still emerge victorious. I think most people dont think about the Electoral College until Something Like this happens. You got a ton more votes and the other guy gets to be president of the United States. The paper says thats the rules whether you like them or not. Michael baca was ready to rewrite the rule book. When it became clear she lost the Electoral College vote, there was one more opportunity to keep donald trump from being president. You thought you had the power to change history . D mines unli. Try boost® high protein. With 20 grams of protein for Muscle Health versus only 16 grams in ensure® high protein. And now enjoy boost® high protein in new cafe mocha flavor. Im your daydream, come what a day for a daydream wah wah wah what a day for a daydreaming girl youre never too far from the life artois. Youre on it. Exercising often and eating healthy . Yup, on it there too. You may think youre doing all you can to manage type 2 diabetes and heart disease. But could your medication do more to lower your heart risk . Jardiance can reduce the risk of cardiovascular death for adults who also have known heart disease. So, it could help save your life from a heart attack or stroke. And it lowers a1c. 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So in case we elect the wrong person they can fix that. Who are these people . No one knows for sure, but whoever it,theyre the folks that do the real voting after we do our pretend vote. Keeganmichael key and jordan peele were joking, sort of. This november we should dunk the vote. It may not have been exactly what the framers of the constitution had in mind, but its not far off. The founders understood human nature. They understood that everybodys falible. The states are falible. The National Government is falible. Everyone can be corrupted and they knew that they needed a system of checks and balances to protect liberty against the imperfections of human nature. So how would they address all these concerns . How would we elect our president s. So help me god. Congratulations, sir. They bounced around a bunch of ideas. Maybe one house of congress selecting. Or both houses sitting together selecting. They thought about state legislatures or governors selecting the president. They thought about the idea of a direct popular vote. The small states are afraid of a National Popular group. They would not agree to it. It was a hard problem to solve. They settled on using the representation of the legislature. And then electors to select the president of the United States. And that ended up being the Electoral College. It was a frankensteins monster of sorts. Folks like Alexander Hamilton came up with a system that gives the choice to the states. This is where it gets tricky. When we cast our ballots on election day, were choosing a slate of electors to vote on our behalf. They make up the Electoral College. When they get together in december, their votes officially and technically choose the president. Of course, weve all mostly come to assume that theyll vote the way we tell them to. You getting all this down . I know its a lot. So we thought wed ask some friends of ours to help you understand. Who are the electors . Theyre the ones who elect. The ones that you vote for. Who will vote in your stead. You single your choice, you give them your trust. But its up to them, its not up to us. Were only the voters, they are the electors. In article ii of the u. S. Constitution the framers spelled out how the chief executive is chosen they laid out the rules for elections they wanted a system that would be free from corruption the winner would be chosen by an unaligned delegation without partisan affiliation their called the electors, because they elect theyre like our protectors adding one extra step you single your choice you give them your trust but its up to them and not up to us were only the voters they are the electors every state gets a number of electors thats exactly the same as the number of senators and representatives they claim plus three added on for d. C. They are the electors all 538 they are the electors giving smaller states extra weight you give them your choice, you give them your trust its up to them not up to us were only the voters they are the electors when you set it to music, it all seems so simple. And maybe it was in 1787. I am your voice. But when you consider they never factored in political parties, they never really imagined actual campaigns, they never even required states to hold actual elections for president. Lets just say this is not your fathers Electoral College. Certainly not your Founding Fathers Electoral College. The Electoral College we look at today really is nothing like that of which the framers put together. The winner take all that most states use. The obedience of faithful electors really changed that body tremendously. What is a fateful elector you ask . Please bring forth the certificates of vote. Lets explain by telling you who it isnt. James madison said i think its a great thing these electors can vote in accordance with what their constituents want. But they have the ability to step in if theres an emergency and to ability with common sense. Theres a really big gap between election day and the meetings of the electors. Democratic elector Michael Bacca. Did you have a plan for what you would do if trump won . There wasnt a lot of wiggle room as a colorado elector. What does the state of colorado expect . The person who won the popular vote in colorado. It was merely a suggestion on what electors could do. In their mind its a sealed deal. But its an unconstitutional law. Under Colorado State law, electors are bound to support the candidate theyre identified with on the ballot. In colorado, we dont list electors on the ballot. We list the major parties and their candidates. Its understood and expected that electors follow the pledge and they vote for the person theyre identified with. There are some issues. Coming up, bacca wasnt alone. Other electors in other states shared the same dilemma. Its so often the elector position is ignored. And seen only as the plies at the end of a career. I decided maybe someone should take a stand and truly understand the Electoral College. To make. t have the largest 5g network. Awardwinning customer satisfaction. Or insanely great value. Now, with tmobile for business, theres no compromise. Network. Support. Value. Choose. Any. Three. Tmobile for business ready when you are. Our 12 step process provides 100 pure quality water. Earn box tops for your school with nestle pure life, available across these fun packs. These humans, those humans. Groovin, and golden. Its about getting more than Health Insurance and a partner who listens and acts. Humana calls it human care. Its talking to a doctor from your couch, or helping you find a cheaper prescription before you ask. Its helping you fix the rugs so you dont fall, and keeping you social, online or off. Its getting to know you, so you can be your healthiest. Thats our superpower. Thats human care. From humana. Book two separate qualifying stays and earn a free night. The open road is open again. And wherever youre headed, Choice Hotels is there. Book direct at choicehotels. Com. And Simon Pagenaud takesed, the lead at the indy 500 . Coming to the green flag, racing at daytona. Theyre off. In the kentucky derby. Rory mcllroy is a two time champion at east lake. He scores stanley cup champions touchdown only mahomes. The big events are back and xfinity is your home for the return of live sports. Go away. Racist, sexist, antigay. Hey hey, gogo, donald trump has got to go. When it turned into this decisive victory, i realized we had to do something in the Electoral College. Michael bacca was one of 538 electors that would cast the official vote for president one month after the general election. It was literally overnight. 3 43 in the morning, i realized we needed electors to not vote for donald trump. You thought you had the power to change history . Yes. If he was going to keep trump out of office, he would need help. Me and another elector out of washington began talking. That night . I had a phone call with an electoral in colorado. We discussed the situation with donald trump. They have the same last name, but they are not related. When michael approached me to help him. He said, i think we can do something about this. For me, i was so disturbed by the outcome of that election. She was also on board with michaels idea. We were trying to say hey, theres actual electors here. Alexander hamilton wrote one of the federalist papers, in there he states that electors shall stop any candidate who is unqualified who is a demagogue or is controlled by foreign powers. To brett, polly and michael started a campaign to convince fellow electors to change their votes. We decided the only choice to stop donald trump, vote for a different republican candidate. We called it the moral electors, we were trying to get electors to vote their conscience and say, hey, these state laws are not constitutional. Moral electors soon became the hamilton electors. What are they called hamilton electors. In the spirit of Alexander Hamilton who explicitly describes the Electoral College as comprised of a body of men who would exercise a body of discretion who fit the best judgment of the nation. You voted for Hillary Clinton in the election . Yes. After election night, who did you propose they vote for . Governor kasich. Did you want him to be president . No. Why not push more republicans to vote for Hillary Clinton. You werent going to find republican electors to not give control to a republican. You have to give control for a republican. You are looking for someone you may be able to convince Republican Voters to vote for . Who voted for who didnt really matter. Republicans could vote for a different person each and the plan still would have been the same. They were trying to find a consensus candidate that would work across the aisle. They wanted to deny donald trump a majority of Electoral College votes kick it to the house of representatives and have someone like john kasich or colin powell become president of the United States as this consensus choice in the house of representatives. They needed at least. Republican electors and they had six weeks until the Electoral College would meet on december 19th. Talk to me about the effort to get other electors on board . Messy. It was complicated. We were the Bad News Bears of the political world. Unfortunately, one of the things that happened immediately after the general election, people started flooding their phone numbers, email boxes, their actual boxes with cries to stop donald trump. And wed start calling republicans in states where we knew there were republican electors who were not pleased. It wasnt until i had a phone call with chris super in texas, he was the first republican to come on board. The Electoral College is doing what i think im doing, which is standing up and saying no. We got him to do an op ed in the new york times. We were hoping once the first republican came on board, others would follow. That created momentum. Groups opposed to donald trump have been trying to convince gop electors not to vote for the president elect. This campaign you were on started getting Media Attention . It was weird at first. Weird, but not alone. Republican members of the Electoral College this message is for you. A ground swell of support with one resounding message. The Electoral College was created specifically to prevent an unfit candidate from becoming president. Im not asking you to vote for Hillary Clinton. You and other brave republican electors can give the house of representatives the option to select a qualified candidate for the presidency. I stand with you. I stand with you. But sometimes standing with you still means looking behind you. You got a lot of hate too. There were some Death Threats. Whats that like . Unless you have a gun to my head or a knife to my throat. It was concerning enough i had to contact the fbi. Do you think it intimidated anyone else . 100 . I think people were definitely afraid. Emails, twitter messages, facebook messages, unfortunately, some of those messages that came through were Death Threats. Republican electors said the threats forced them to take notice. There are people who have said we need to hang him by a tree, we need to go to his house. People saying they would get me if i didnt do the right thing. Plenty of electors of all strives got Death Threats and hate. Its one of the things that made our jobs a lot harder. These are things none of these people signed up for. Robert alexander has been surveying electors for more than 20 years. Hes known what the rest of us are just finding out. I respondents writing back saying, i will never serve as an elector again. I received Death Threats, email viruses. People stopped me on the street. Despite the threats, they had faith in what they were doing. It scared people, because no ones used the Electoral College this way, can we even do this . Is this even right . But i think sometimes you just have to stand up and be willing to fight for your convictions. Coming up did you ever think it was going to work . I thought it was definitely going to work . An army family who is always at the ready. So when they got a little surprise. Two . They didnt panic. They got a bigger car for their soontobebigger family. After shopping around for insurance, they called usaa who helped find the right coverage for them and even some muchneeded savings. That was the easy part. Usaa insurance is made the way liz and mike need it easy. Usaa insurance is made the way liz and mike need it i cant wiat to share at ts big 5g news. shouting through the glass at t has nationwide 5g . Yup and thats faster . Faster, yea but is it reliable . Ah huh and secure you should consider making a big deal about it bigger . I said bigger oh, bigbigger deal bigger than what im doing . Its not complicated. A 5g Network Needs a 5g device. Now everyone including existing customers can get a free Samsung Galaxy note20 after tradein. Whether its bribes. Or an overdue makeover. Get all your pet essentials right when you need them, with Curbside Pickup at petsmart. Just order online, drive up, checkin, and pick up. December 19th, 2016. Theres a giant rally outside of the state capital in denver. In every state and washington, d. C. , electors like Michael Bacca in colorado, met to cast the official votes for president of the United States. I went and talked to the crowd, i gave them updates, this is whats going on in maine, this is whats going on as the east coast voted. I was waiting those results to know, is this movement going to work. That morning i made some calls. I called around the country to find out if there was a possibility of getting republicans to not vote for this man and vote for whomever else, to prevent him from becoming president. We actually believed we had upwards of 50 people who were seriously considering not voting for donald trump. And all we needed was. Would they keep trump out of the white house . It was clear there was a number of electors who were considering it. They were not going to act unless it was clear there were going to be more than. Were they afraid of partisan politics or were they afraid of the constitution . Some of them were afraid of partisan politics. Many of them were afraid of the law. In many of these jurisdictions, the law skplisly said they had to vote as they pledged. In colorado, the Attorney Generals Office knew something was happening. That day, the electors showed up, they were told by the secretary of state, youre not allowed to vote for someone else. I realized we didnt have the votes, we were shy maybe ten votes. Realizing their chances of stopping a Trump Presidency were slim. Holly decided to cast her vote for clinton. I love Hillary Clinton. Shes the person that i wanted to be president. While their campaign was coming to an end, a more important battle was just beginning. Now i will count ballots. We have received eight votes for Hillary Clinton for president. And one ballot which cannot be received. Who did you vote for . Governor kasich. What were you thinking at the moment you wrote the name john kasich . Spell it correctly. I was going to vote for edwin macmullan, but i didnt want to misspell his last name. Hes a former cia official who ran in the 2016 official. John kasich the former governor of ohio. If you wont cast a ballot as youre required to do under colorado law, im going to have to remove you. I was removed as an elector. We will ask the electors to nominate a replacement elector so that a ninth vote can be cast. We need an elector who will cast the vote for the person who received the most votes for president in the state of colorado. When you become an elector, you know the deal, your name is not on the ballot. You are there on assignment to vote for the candidate that gets the most votes in colorado. Thats your role. When people sign up for the role, they know what to expect. Did you think you were committing a crime . No, no. Thank you, michael. Thank you, michael. What does Colorado State law say about electors voting their conscience. Colorado state law requires an elector to pledge to vote for the candidate of their party. Further north a slightly different battle was being waged. Ladies and gentlemen. Welcome. By the time i was driving down to olympia washington our State Capitol in december, enough states had voted at that time. We knew our attempt to stop trump had failed. Its been an interesting cycle this year. In 2016 when we convened the electors here in the capitol, it was a big day, we had a lot of people here, a lot of media here, you could tell there was a little bit of tension, there was a rumor that some of them were not going to vote for Hillary Clinton. I am the elector from the fourth congressional district. Eli, john and myself stepped aside and said who are we going to vote for. He brought up colin powell. I want you to read this. For the office of president of the United States, colin powell received three votes. There was a level of disbelief turned into frustration that their candidate won the popular vote but wasnt going to be elected and they were trying any last minute move they could to have people change their votes to try to elect someone other than donald trump. Unlike in colorado, their votes did count, but there were consequences. About a week later, we are fined 1,000. It was the first time in u. S. History any elector had been fined for casting a different vote than their states popular vote winner. Theyre vote wasnt taken away, they were punished. In both cases, the question is, does the state have the power to control through legal means how someone votes . The Electoral College votes today, 32 states plus the district of columbia, have laws requiring electors to pledge their vote for the candidate who wins the popular vote in their state. If the electors go rogue, the punishment is a mixed bag. They can be replaced, fined or their vote simply cancelled. The constitution says nothing about how electors are supposed to vote. The 12th amendment only says the electors shall meet in their respective states and vote by ballot for president and Vice President and not much else. They stopped short of saying anything about requiring electors to vote a specific way. Polly says state laws requiring electors to pledge their vote are unconstitutional. After michael was removed, i was angry. That was just not right. That was illegal. So i talked to the other electors and three of us decided that we would sue the state. Polly, michael and robert filed a lawsuit against the state of colorado for removing michael as an elector. A federal court ruled against them, but they appealed and won. The Appeals Court agreed with us that our position was the correct constitutional position. It was at that point that the other side then appealed to the Supreme Court. The Supreme Court agreed to mar the colorado case, and also the case in washington after a lower federal court upheld his 1,000 fine. Did you yelp, did you scream . I yelped when the Supreme Court decided to take the case. That was a, oh, my goodness. Its fun being able to share that moment with our kids, how many government teachers have been in the Supreme Court while theyre teaching . I hope it inspires them to be engaged citizens. Its clear in the constitution, the popular vote is not what elects president. Two states, two different results. History was on the doorstep of our nations highest court. Would their decision open the door for chaos come november . Coming up if the Supreme Court does rule and say no, electors do not have to be obedient, they are free agents and they can do what they wish, that should send a bit of a chill down the spines of many americans. This is a pandoras box, and we are going to be in unchartered territory. We have breaking news for you now. U. S. President donald trump suffered a great personal loss. His younger Brother Robert trump died saturday at a new york hospital. Were going to go to Kristen Holmes in bedminster, new jersey. A real blow for the president here. We know his brother had been in ill health for some time. What more can you tell us of robert and his passing . The white house hasnt given us an actual cause of death. But we knew he had been seriously ill, in and out of the hospital since last spring, he was 72 years old, this came a day after President Trump made an impromptu stop in new york city. We knew he was coming here to new jersey. The last minute they announced he was going to be visiting his Brother Robert in a hospital in new york. And told reporters at that time that hopefully he would be okay. But that he was having a really hard time. He did pass away earlier tonight. I want to read to you the statement that was released from the white house, because this is really the most emotional and touching thing weve heard from President Trump. He said, it is with a heavy heart i share that my wonderful Brother Robert peacefully passed away tonight. He was not just my brother, he was my best friend. He will be greatly missed, we will meet again. His memory will live on in my heart. Robert, i love you, rest in peace. A very emotional, very simple statement from President Trump, but it clearly goes to show you the relationship that the two of them have. We know that President Trump said his brother supported his candidacy for president 1,000 president. His brother had been a Top Executive at the trump organization, they had a very close relationship, and recently as we know, mary trump, who was related to President Trump, has written a book and robert trump was the one who put out the restraining order to try to block the book from being published. So clearly working on his brothers behalf. They had a strong relationship. And again were still waiting for some details here as to what exactly happened. What was this illness, he did pass earlier tonight, i want to say that he even talked about his brother the last three days, quite often. Last night at a police event with the new york police union, he said that his brother loved the police, he referred to him as how close they are. This is a man that doesnt have a lot of very close friends. And very close family. Hes very particular about who he keeps near him. Its clear his relationship with robert, it was something he valued deeply and something he cherished. Even though he supported his brother, he was loyal, very different from donald trump. Not flamboyant, didnt seek the limelight. What more can you tell us about his personality. He was very behind the scenes, had he a role as i said at the trump organization, but he was never one who tried to steal the limelight from donald trump. He always put his brother front and center. One of the iconic pictures of robert trump is him hugging his brother at the Republican National convention in 2016. Again, it wasnt somebody who was out there doing interviews the way we see so Many Associates of President Trump who really want that spotlight themselves, they crave that, we never heard from robert trump. I had a friend of mine who has been following the trump candidacy very closely who said, he didnt know that he was a brother of donald trump. Because he just wasnt out there. You know, its an interesting dynamic the two of them clearly had. Well, thank you very much for that. Once again robert trump, President Trumps brother dead at 72. We return now to our cnn special report, count on controversy inside the Electoral College. The silence. [ gunfire ] the rage. Election year 2020. A lot of unprecedented things have occurred. We have no idea yet how the pandemic will play itself out. And the issues weve seen with race over the summer will spill over into the fall. Were thinking about how to eliminate chaos, chaos will be baked into the 2020 election. So funny story, i was leaving colorado after i voted to spend time with my family. And i was driving through some small little town in new mexico. And i stopped to get gas. And i see on the newspaper it says, no hamilton electors here. Im like, im in this small little could you poke town in the middle of nowhere, and here they are talking about the Electoral College. Michael baca did more than just pull into a gas station. When he and fellow elector started the hamilton electors, they fueled an argument that had never been settled. With the opportunity to get a question answered that should have gotten answered in the last 200 years. How do we elect our president . What are electors and what purpose do they serve . Brett voted for republican colin powell. Michael baca voted for john kasich. Their idea to vote for a more moderate republican instead of the states popular vote winner to prevent donald trump from winning the white house. One vote counted, the other didnt. The plan didnt work. But their decision to vote faithlessly. That would linger amid controversy in Court Filings for four years. Where this gets wouldnt this be really interesting, frank, to be combustible if what happens if they were to shift the outcome. In 2011, two electors flipping would have flipped the results. I think we will see a series of elections, we will see close results Going Forward that makes this election much more important in the future. They are playing a dangerous game. The American People have absolutely come to expect when votes with cast on election day, the president ial election is decided. To undo that 220 years of history it would defy expectations and constitutional expectations. Thats why the Supreme Court added it to its docket. The Supreme Court will never rule on this. This the a pandoras box. Oh, ye, oh ye, oh, ye. We will here this case. Case 19465, chiafalo to hear Justice Ginsberg say my last name is surra el. What does that mean the guys write about me . They didnt write about me. They wrote about the court of electors. The question that needs answered is straight forward, do the states have the power to control, through law, how an elector may vote . They do not. Reporter larry lessi gi was one of four attorneys. Historic and unprecedented arguments about bribery and chaos heard by the Supreme Court by phone. Suppose an elector is bribed between the time of popular vote and the time when the electors vote, can the state remove that elector . Your honor, we believe that prior to the vote, the states power is to assure the person that shows up has not engaged in a criminal activity. A claim that someone has been bribed is a charge. It need to be proven. So we believe that will be a difficulty there with the bribery. Thank you, counsel, general. Im confused their position on this it seems theyre saying you cant remove someone unless you can somehow move through the criminal process before the electors meet. Thats absurd. Its a great argument to eliminate discretion. However, when asked pointblank, can you find a case where an elector has been bribed . The state could find none. So as a hypothetical, it was very pleasure. It was very sensational. But as something real, it didnt really hold water. It was rather interesting to hear the questions that the judges asked that they dont, a lot of the hypotheticals, whereas, i wish they dealt with the reality of the case. Reporter on the subject of reality, some of the questions including those from Justice Clarence thomas seemed a little out of the this world. The elector that promised to vote for the winning candidate can say suddenly you know im going to vote for Frodo Baggins. And you are saying under your system, you cant do anything about that. Your honor, i think there is something to be done. Because that would be the vote for a nonperson. You know, no matter how big a fan many people are of Frodo Baggins. So when Frodo Baggins entered court, you knew that was going to float an social media. The opposition argued mostly about the chaos it might cause and not on any constitutional or legal standing. Those who disagree with your argument say that it would lead to chaos where the popular vote is close, changing just a few votes would ald alter the outcome and there would be a long period of uncertainty about who the next president were going to be. Do you deny that that is a good possibility, if your argument prevails . They deny its a good possibility. We dont deny its a possibility. We believe there are risks on either side. We cant make decisions based on whether its going to cause chaos or not, or else wed be flipping parts of the constitution right and left. The this does not equal more chaos. There were great questions. Justice kavanaugh asked one of the important questions. What was the purpose of having electors . There was a bit of silence with that. If we are going to bind electors, if all they are are automotops casting a ballot, then what is their purpose . If its merely ceremonial, is something we want to have in the electoral process . Reporter they have been fighting for answers for four years. A fight they want to win, but thats not their ultimate goal. I hope we win. But ive always said through this entire process from day one, im against the Electoral College. It should not exist. It should be gone as soon as possible. I am simply trying to represent my duties as best i can. Its the Electoral College that takes away the individuals vote. Not the electors. This wasnt about me, my politics. It wasnt about my ideology. Im just a guy trying to do what was best for the country. On this shades of america,