Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom With Victor Blackwell And Christi Paul 20150516

Morning. Lets bring in pentagon correspondent Barbara Starr, Senior International correspondent Nick Paton Walsh and National Correspondent Sunlen Serfaty and cnn military analysts retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling and retired Major General james spider marks. Lets start with Barbara Starr, who broke the news this morning, tell us what we know. Good morning, well it was a commando raid overnight, deep into syrian isisheld territory. U. S. Army special Operations Forces and that means delta force, went in by helicopter under orders to try to capture this man. But apparently a firefight broke out, handtohand combat. He resisted. He was killed in the firefight. Along with other isis fighters there. His wife captured and taken back to iraq. The big question why this guy . Why was it worth risking so many u. S. Military lives to go after him . What were being told is he was an isis leader if you will in their oil and gas operations. So thats very key because of the financial impact. The financial benefit to isis. But perhaps more serious, even there had been a sense by the u. S. That he was increasingly involved in isis command and control. And isis operations. And u. S. Officials are beginning to indicate there may have been a reason to believe he might have been in contact at some point, with Abu Bakr Albaghdadi, the very reclusive leader of isis. The guy the u. S. Of course wants to get. He put that whole picture together what were beginning to understand including from our sources on the ground this man had been very heavily involved in isis communications. So if they could have captured him, they hoped to interrogate him and learn a good deal about the communications of isis leading to potentially be able to track down other leaders. But they did capture Communications Equipment at the site and other intelligence that they will now go through. They can interrogate his wife. So they do believe they got a good intelligence haul if you will. From this raid. All u. S. Forces returning safely. Not to put a light note on it. But were told one u. S. Commando killing back with bloody knuckles from the handtohand combat. Nick paton walsh, i want to get you in the conversation here. Youve been bringing up a question all morning about who is this man. Ha was killed and what really was his worth. A little bit about what barbara was saying there. Youre live in beirut tell us what youre hearing there. Not just about what youre hearing about abu sayaff but about his wife and her significance. Very little frankly and its entirely feasible that given the black box sealed nature of isis leadership that this man had a substantial role in the eyes of u. S. Intelligence that they were willing to put this amount of risk down to try to prevent. Were hearing from one longterm observer of isis the real name of abu sayaff which means the father of sayyaf a title. His real name is abu zalik al jaburi. That may not be the case. Not featured in the top four or five wanted individuals. Perhaps according to experts weve spoken to in regular contact. Isis spokesperson hamid al anani. Thats one reason why he may have been a higher profile. But as barbara was alluding to maybe in regular contact with Abu Bakr Albaghdadi. You have to ask yourself as barbara was saying such a huge amount of risk placed on the table here. This is one of the most fortified places that isis has. Its a Huge Oil Field infrastructure. Heavily fortified. Said toe a three to fivekilometer perimeter around it into which people cant go. Airstrikes softened up the border and then in went special forces he they must have been aware of how dangerous and complex that particular operation was. Theres lots of particular reasons they may have chosen to do it that werent to do with finding abu sayaff there. And you have to question whether or not the capture mission was really viable. Isis at the core of their creed seem to worship selfextinguishing instead of capture. So you have to ask if there was another target that they didnt get with abu sayaff actually has a much higher place in the isis firmament than people seem to be willing to discuss and bear in mind this is said to be trying to inter ing toing to interdict their ability to make money out of oil smuggling. Most admissions are theyve significantly reduced their revenue inflow from oil. So a lot of questions really being asked now, i think after this white house explanation as to why this extraordinarily risky raid taken in the first place. Remember in the past u. S. Special forces have gone in to look for u. S. Hostages. Or in the interests of bin laden, try to bring back the body of a man whose identity they had to be 100 sure of to make the huge stark claim. You have to imagine within Barack Obamas administration a lot of debate was made before taking this risk. They must have thought the u. S. Public would have understood why they were willing to stomach the potential for this going wrong. Thankfully it didnt no u. S. Troops injured and one yazidi woman saved as well. But a confusing operation for many observers here. Nick let me ask you about umm sayyaf shes been captured now in iraq being interrogated. Weve talked a lot about the effort to recruit women into isis. But at that level, at the top, maybe middle management of the hierarchy, is it credible to believe that she has a lot of organizational knowledge about isis and would know all of the intricacies of that level . In the shortest answer is no really. We do know that isis notion of where womans place in society is not particularly 21st century. We know some women are attracted to that ideology. We know women who promote them on social media we know women have a role in their organization but its not in the leadership. I think the notion that she was a fully functioning deputy with operational knowledge of everything that abu sayaff would have known, given the secretive nature of isis as a whole bears further scrutiny. We dont know her real name. Umm sayyaf means the mother of sayyaf. It means little else at this stage. It is important to notice how the one captured person they have from this,isemale. Is now being interrogated. If i remember rightly, not a lot was gained at the interrogation of bin laden wives. It wasnt like he brought them into the Family Business to give the phrase so to speak. Soy think yes a lot of scrutiny will be upon umm sayyaf at this stage. I think its also reasonably sensible to limit your expectations of what intelligence she may be able to yield. It may be more of a case of the cell phones perhaps they found on abu sayaff computers, other things around him. That may be part of that kind of hourbyhour frantic search you often get after a hit like this for further intelligence they can act upon. It does appear that a lot of local witnesses began tweeting about this syrian state tv put out a statement about an hour before this suggesting that impact was their forces who had killed the isis oil minister there. So it seems like this operation was beginning to go public. Maybe thats why the pentagon had to speak rather than continuing to pursue any intelligence they may have got from executing this raid. Nick paton walsh joining us there from beirut we have Barbara Starr as well. Well get to Sunlen Serfaty and our generals retired general are with us in a moment. I know there are people waking up and seeing the breaking news and even those who closely follow the reporting on isis and know the leaders, they hear the name abu sayaff and are not familiar with that name. But the fact that the u. S. Had him under close watch indicates that he was a valuable target. So lets bring in cnn military analyst and retired lieutenantgeneral Mark Hertling for more. I think its true a lot of people are looking at this and wondering how significant this man was, especially knowing, as we know a Senior Administration official told cnn today, the mission was to capture him. But because he fought back he was then killed. Im wondering if we look at whether, how successful this was, it was successful because no u. S. Troops were killed. But now that hes dead will they really be able to extrapolate the intel they were hoping for . Absolutely. Christi, ive conducted many operations like this. And first if i can go back to your question about the wellknown nickname of abu sayaff we seem to publicize the operational commanders across the boards the one that actually conduct the fight. But ill tell you at the operational and strategic level of conflict you really have to target not just the operational commanders but the chief financiers. The ones that provide legal advice the ones that provide religious advice. The informational operators. Because all of those contribute to the defeat and the destruction of the eventual operation. The operational leaders are important to be sure. But truthfully with this organization with the amount of money they spend in offering funds to foreign fighters to come to their promising a good life. Promising a home promising wives, to the foreign jihadists that are coming there. Running communities, paying for people to haul in trash. The budget aspect of isis is crucial. If you get the guy who is running that. The equivalent of our u. S. Department of treasury or and commerce combined and say weve now taken that guy and killed him and we now have access to his books you have a a treasure trove of information of how the Organization Works not only from a financial standpoint but perhaps recruiting information and even operational and the question that abu sayaff meet baghdadi . Of course he did, youre going to have a ceo of a Corporation Meeting with the cfo to see how the organization is running. Thats how fit all of those things together. Its a critically important raid. An important individual and its going to have an effect on isis as an organization. The reporting from Barbara Starr is that this was in some ways handtohand combat on troops really there on the ground. Attempting to capture abu sayaff. Weve seen in other instances where air strikes, drones were used a report from the Iraqi Military that al affri, the number tw from albaghdadi was killed. Now this is going on the ground to get these leaders, do you see this as a turning of the tide or change in strategy . And well see more of this . I think its a different approach victor and this happens all the time there are some leaders that you kill or capture and oh by the way, the al affri reported killing has not been confirmed yet. You know that weve reported that over the last several days thats one of the detments of dropping a bomb on someone, you really dont know if you hit them or not. You dont know if hes dead. The same thing with al dhuri. We know for a fact that these were special operators engaged with a couple of targets. Know they killed them. And more importantly, they have the intelligence thats associated with it. Thats critical. You always fight for intelligence. Its important to to kill the leaders, yes. But its also critical to fight for intelligence. So you can conduct more operations in the future. Retired lieutenantgeneral Mark Hertling thank you so much. So lets learn now what the president is saying about last nights raid on isis. Were headed live to the white house right after this. Stay close. At red lobsters create your own seafood trio. If it looks tasty you order it. Choose 3 of 9 dishes for just 15. 99. Like baked lobster alfredo. Brown butter shrimp scampi. And soyginger salmon. Hey, this is my plate. Get yours while you still can. Meet the worlds newest Energy Superpower. Surprised . In fact, america is now the worlds number one natural gas producer. And we could soon become number one in oil. Because Hydraulic Fracturing Technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. Supporting millions of new jobs. Billions in tax revenue. And a new century of American Energy security. The new Energy Superpower . Its red, white and blue. Log on to learn more. music plays throughout the pursuit of healthier. It begins from the second were born. After all, healthier doesnt happen all by itself. It needs to be earned. 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We do not expect him to speak on this. The National Security council has released a statement in which they characterize president obamas views on the mission. They say as commanderinchief the president is grateful to the brave u. S. Personnel who carried out this complex mission, as well as the iraqi authorities. For their support of the operation and for their use of facilities which they say contributed to the success. We know according to a Senior Administration official the president was regularly briefed by his National Security team on this mission overnight, as it was carried out. Christi, victor . And the decision to carry this out, we know was supported by the president s top military and National Security advisers. Thats right. The National Security council says it was unanimous recommendation by the National Security team to the president , to make this decision. But in the end it was the president s own discorrection, his call that actually makes this happen. We know from a Senior Administration official and you guys were having this conversation earlier. How high profile was abu sayaff . How connected was he within the isis leadership . We know from a Senior Administration official that he was a Senior Leader overseeing the oil and gas operations. But then they also add it would be likely that he would have interacted in some capacity with albaghdadi. So that is indicative of how they believe, how high up in the leadership he had contact with. What about his wife . I mean theyve been talking about how significant this that she is and the fact that obviously she is now in custody and they are interrogating her. But what do they really hope to garner from her . Thats a key question. She is being detained right now in iraq. According to the National Security council. And will likely be interrogated. But the question is how much intelligence does she have . Now a Senior Administration official tells us that they are working to determine whether she had any information about hostages including american citizens held by isis. So the question is is that actionable intelligence that the u. S. Can take . How big of a role did the wife have . And will they have any information that gleans new information as they take the fight against isis. All right. Sunlen serfaty, thank you so much. Appreciate it. I want to read a statement from defense secretary ash carter thats come in. Saying that the operation represents another significant blow to isil. And it is a reminder that the United States will never waver in denying safe haven to terrorists who threaten our sit separates and those of our friends and allies. The extraordinary men and women in uniform who executed this complex and challenging mission, along with all of those who supported it their professionalism, dedication and valor are a deep source of pride and inspiration to us all as someone was just referencing. Lets bring in cnn military analyst, retired majorgeneral james spider marks. Weve been talking this morning about not just the killing and the capture of abu and umm sayyaf. But the decision to use special Operations Forces. What do you think about that decision to do this in that way . But not with a drone strike. Or not by hair strike. Victor thats a great question. Clearly when the National Security team as its been reported has unanimity in terms of the decision to use special operators on the ground to go after the target that tells you something extremely important. That is the targetable intelligence the confirmed intelligence that says abu sayaff is at this location with this type of capability around him. And we can confirm right now that this is where he is. Thats a series of intelligence collection operations that have taken place, from all contributors. National Security Agency from the Defense Intelligence agency from human intelligence on the ground. There were folks that probably confirmed that this is where he was located. All of that has to come together. Then the decision is made are we willing to run the risk to go after this individual at this location. Or are we going to take some other option thats available . Its not just a drone there are other capabilities that we could use to go after him. Clearly this was worth the effort because of the value that he provides in terms of intelligence and all of the financial aspects of how isis gets its money, uses its money, sources of money, and how they then distribute those funds. Activities by isis would dry up if you could go after the source of their funding. Retired general james spider marks, thank you so much for joining us this morning. Thank you, victor. So the big question is what will the figures death do to the isis leadership here . Well talk to our next guest about the larger implications of the death of abu sayaff. [ screaming ] rate suckers [ bell dinging ] your Car Insurance goes up because of their bad driving. People try all sorts of ways to get rid of them. [ driver panting ] if youre sick of paying more than your fair share. [ screams ] get snapshot from progressive, and see just how much your good driving could save you. Im brian vickers, nascar® driver. Im kevin nealon comedian. And im arnold palmer, professional golfer. Know what we have in common . We talked to our doctors about treatment with xarelto®. Me, when i had a blood clot in my leg that could have traveled to my lungs. Thats why i took xarelto®, too. Xarelto® is proven to treat and help reduce the risk of dvt and pe blood clots. I took xarelto® for afib. 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Key isis figure abu sayaff was killed during a u. S. Special forces raid in syria. Now the operation took place at the president s direction. And sayyafs wife was capture and is currently in u. S. Detention in iraq. Mike the weiss is the coauthor of isis inside the army of terror. Good to have you with us. Wondering about abu sayaff whether thats his real name. Do you know his real name . And secondly do you believe that he was indeed the target of this raid . Well no abu sayaff is a nom de guerre the isis fighters adopt. His real name is al [ inaudible ] [ inaudible ] covering this conflict have not heard of him. His name has come across some radars twice, but the idea that hes a key figure or has command and control capability this is news to many people. Ive had at least one iraqi specialist on isis confirm that he wasnt the intended target. Allegedly the intended target was Abu Muhammed Al adnani. Hes the spokesman and is suggested to be one of the top contenders for caliph in the event that abu sayaff is killed. You know settled on the guy who was. Now to play this up as a major victory. The timing of the operation is interesting. Isnt it because isis is just all but taken ramadi. A city that months ago didnt look like it was on the verge of falling to them. Theyre strongly contesting sacked a major oil refinery in a province that just changed hands multiple times throughout the course of the war and theyve marched on palmyra in syria. These are three major operations isis has mounted concurrently all of which suggests that the strategy is not succeeding like gangbusters, so this could be very well designed to say, hey, look we can still you know kick butt and take names, its not the first time special Operations Forces have gone into syria and i dont just mean the abortive or unsuccessful unfortunately rescue attempt for james foley last year in 2008 jsox, joint special Operations Command launched an operation to kill abu gadiya a border amirror a runner of the socalled rat lines of jihadis coming in from syria to iraq. He was killed after numerous attempts of trying to convince the Assad Government to hand him over. They didnt and in a similar style or fashion as to this was in also in deir ezzor, in an area easily accessible to u. S. Forces given its mostly hinterland. So michael, you know its interesting that you say that the intended target at least according to one of your sources was Abu Muhammed Al gadani. Im not saying that 100 . To me something about this doesnt quite seem right. Thats where i was going to go with it. We note that isis leaders are no fools, either. Look at this with the momentum that they are building in ramadi. They see that the u. S. Government is come in they thought they were going to get someone, instead celebrated someone that the country maybe much of the world has never heard of. Does this reverberate through and embolden isis . What then is the symbolic and value as we talk about propaganda . Well look the u. S. Government has not confirmed that Abu Bakr Albaghdadi has been injured in an air strike that took place in late march, accidental. You know the u. S. Didnt know they had hit a convoy that he was a part of. Everyone i know who studies this including sources in the Iraqi Government sources inside isis say this is not even an open secret any more theres consensus, he has a spinal cord injury the use of his left leg has been immobilized, thats not to say hes completely incapacitated and cant control the organization he can. In the wake of the injury that he sustained, he vowed total vengeance against the United States, they got him, now he wants to get us. Theres another component to this why then would the pentagon or centcom want to say they didnt get baghdadi . The official line from the pentagon is yes, we got the intended target we had hoped to capture him, but he fought back so we killed him and we got his wife instead it seems a little too tidy to me at this point. I think again as many of your correspondents and analysts have been pointing out, putting american lives, boots on the ground at great risk in a hostile country to go after a guy that most people who study this organization for a living had not really heard of or didnt consider to be a ranking or senior official in the terrorist army it seems odd. You know you could have gone got after an oil man with a drone strike or some other method. So im still waiting to hear more on this i think theres more to the story than meets the eye. All right. Michael weiss, so appreciate your insight. Thank you. Stay with us because we do have Nick Paton Walsh who is live for news beirut as well. Nick youve been asking a lot of the same questions this morning. Certainly yes it is deeply confusing that you would see this level risk for this minor figure i dont want to say minor figure. The problem about isis leadership its not something you can necessarily explain on a completely comprehensive flow chart. Abu bakr albaghdadi, the information were receiving is not laid out with a spinal cord injury. It is a very confused picture about his position and not one that u. S. Officials are willing to discuss or confirm in any way. And in fact those ive spoke ton say they believe theres the potential for that to make sense, but thats through their analysis of the situation rather than a smoking gun piece of paper they have in their hands. An actual piece of evidence. So a lot of about his position is to some degree speculation at this stage and i think the question you have to ask yourself is why would you put all of those individuals at risk. Those Delta Force Operators highly trained men. Imagine god forbid had this gone wrong, the mess that barack obama would have had to try to explain to the u. S. Public. Deep inside isisheld territory, flying into one of the most fortified things they have in deir ezzor, a massive oil complex, the military base for isis warks fivekilometerstrong perimeter of security around it very complicated indeed. So they must have been thinking that the person they were going to get at the end was potentially a more substantial figure than abu sayaff. I havent heard a convincing real name for that man at this stage. Would you normally expect were he high up on a target list that you would get abu sayaff yes, which is his nom de guerre but also his real name. Weve been told that his name is Nabil Al Saddiq al jabouri. The main reason for going for him was oil. So it is a confusing picture. The notion that he was sho somehow a gateway to baghdadi or adnani that may have been plausible. The other times weve seen u. S. Special forces deployed in this way is when theres an absolutely inviolable reason why they needed to be on the ground. There may be more information to emerge as to why this occurred. And perhaps abu sayaffs death and the capture of his wife are being trumpeted by the pentagon now, as a good reason they say in hindsight, that came out of it. Bear in mind too, we have this one yazidi woman who is effectively a slave there, who seems, has been rescued. Her life massively changed by being reunited with her family. Were hearing from the National Security council that umm sayyaf. The wife of abu sayaff these arent real names, theyre just nom de guerre father of sayyaf and mother of sayyaf. Shes currently being debriefed at this sthaj, believed to be in iraq. She may yield information, but theres a discrepancy here. Its not necessarily common for isis leaders to bring their wives into the business models. Wept dont play a key or coherent role in isis operational daytoday things. Theyre part of the social media, but they dont figure widely in the leadership like they do for example in their Syrian Kurdish opponents, who weve seen them fight against. So a lot of confusion about the white house story at this stage. From im soo what im seeing thon on this side of the atlantic. There could be this narrative thats built. We talk about albaghdadi. Who was enter a severe spinal cord injury or not. We did receive the audio message, theres the report from the Iraqi Military that al affri was killed and the pentagon says there was no confirmation of a highvalue target and now this going after what they call a key figure most people who study this dont recognized name. Is this attributed to the opaqueness of the leadership of isis . Is this poor intel from the u. S. That this is now possibly the third instance of a lack of clarity as it relates to these leaders . Well i think you have to human intelligence is extraordinarily complex thing. You need a human being to be available to talk to you about what theyve learned from inside the circle. Youre not supposed to be inside. So you have to forgive the u. S. Dealing with the organization. Frankly journeyed to fighting against the United States. So many of these guys were involved back with the Islamic State of iraq and al qaeda in iraq before it fighting the u. S. As an insurgency during the u. S. Military presence in iraq. They have a lot of experience at keeping their secrets. I think tough pursue it perhaps in a much more broad White House Communications strategy here. What if this had gone terribly wrong . How would you justify the decision to send these men in . I think would you really struggle at the level of barack obama to fashion a narrative where an oil man or not being in the industry which makes isis so much money. An oil man rising up the ranks needed to be captured from inside one of the key isis lines, then strongholds, deep inside syria by some of your best special operators. I think that would be a tough sell had god forbid this gone wrong. So i think there may be more information to emerge in the days and hours ahead and it may also perhaps show us quite how complex it is to penetrate isis key leadership. Because we know some public figures, they put themselves in social media videos they put themselves on display quite willingly. But theres individuals like kadoulhi. Just been named a 7 million reward for his whereabouts, otherwise known as al affri. Thought to be the number two of isis. Not a figure who you necessarily would have heard about a lot. He had been on u. N. Sanctions list in the past years as part of an al qaeda in iraq. He was out there certainly in the extremist firmament. But he wasnt somebody you would regularly see in social media videos. Not like the other two men recently announced with rewards on their head. Omar al shashani and al anani. A key spokesman. Nick paton walsh. Thank you so much. I want to go to Sunlen Serfaty who is outside the white house. Youve been listening to part of this conversation and some of the questions coming out about how significant sayyaf really was or perhaps was not. What is the white house saying . Well i think we can learn, christi, a few things from what the National Security council sent out in their lengthy statement. Just picking out a few key things. Really a defense of why president obama took his deliberate call to make this mission. They say in the statement that he was involved with the groups military operations. In reference to abu sayaff. And that he was overseeing the oil and gas operations. But we are also as we start asking these questions, was it worth the risk what more is there to this we are getting some pushback from a Senior Administration official who adds that it was likely that abu sayaff would have had interactions with albaghdadi they say in some capacity. Albaghdadi a key isis leader that the u. S. Has been chasing for a while. So starting to push back and provide a little bit more information on why president obama made this decision. Now we know that this decision was made with unanimous recommendation from his National Security council. And they say they had sufficient intelligence to make the call with confidence that this mission could be carried out successfully. We know that president obama according to a white house official was briefed regularly on this mission. Overnight. Back to you. All right. Sunlen serfaty, thank you so much. We appreciate it. And i want to just let you know about something here. Tomorrow this sunday cnn is taking a real unique look inside isis. Who are they . What do they really want. Fareed zakaria hosts blindsided how isis shook the world. Tomorrow night, sunday night, 7 00 p. M. Eastern on cnn. So if you have a flat tire dead battery need a tow or lock your keys in the car, geicos emergency roadside assistance is there 24 7. Oh dear, i got a flat tire. Hmmm. Uh. Yeah, can you find a take where its a bit more dramatic on that last line, yeah . Yeah i got it right here. Someone help me i have a flat tire well its good. Good for me. What do you think . Geico. Fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on Car Insurance. Big day . Ah, the usual. Moved some new cars. Hauled a bunch of steel. Kept the supermarket shelves stocked. Made sure everyone got their latest gadgets. Whats up for the next shift . Ah, nothing much. Just keeping the lights on. laugh nice. Doing the big things that move an economy. See you tomorrow, mac. See you tomorrow, sam. Just another day at norfolk southern. Well get more on the breaking news throughout the morning. Now turning to another major story. A new twist in the investigation in the derailment of amtrak train 188. The ntsb has now called in the fbi Forensics Team to help determine what happened here. You see in the red circle here that white impact mark . Well the head of the ntsb believes that that mark came from a projectile that hit the train before the derailment. And now look at this. It may be one of three trains that was struck on tuesday night. Erin mclaughlin is following the investigation live from philadelphia. What have you learned this morning, erin . Well in addition to the windshield you were just describing there, investigators are pointing to another piece of key evidence that suggests some sort of projectile may have hit amtrak 188 prior to the crash. They say that yesterday, they interviewed an assistant conductor who says moments before the crack she overheard a radio transmission that took place between the amtrak dispatcher and the engineer of a septa train, a separate train that was nearby. That engineer according to the dispatcher that his windshield had been hit by some sort of projectile. She said following that she heard from brandon bostian, the amtrak 188 engineer and he said that his train had also been hit. Now Authorities Say they are following up. They plan on interviewing the septa engineer as well. Meanwhile, deepening the mystery, were hearing from passengers of a third train that was in the area around the same time. An amtrak acela train. We heard from one passenger who said he was sitting in one of the cars and he saw a projectile hit a window just in front of him. About 15 to 20 minutes prior to that amtrak 188 derailment he said he was terrified. Take a listen. I think all of us were a little bit definitely alarmed. We never heard that loud of a sound on the train. We take the train pretty often between d. C. And new york. It was definitely frightening and we didnt know what was going on. As soon as we stood up and we saw that there was this glass shatter, but it hadnt gone all the way through and the conductor made it sound like it wasnt too big of a deal. We really didnt think anything of it. Now authorities had initially discounted the reports of projectiles hitting other trains in the area. As unrelated to amtrak 188. But obviously investigators reevaluating that we have heard from septa, who confirms that a projectile did hit one of their trains that night. They also added that it is common for projectiles to strike trains in the area saying that it is that children actually frequently children or kids frequently throw projectiles at the trains. Erin mclaughlin following the investigation closely from philadelphia. Thanks. Lets bring in cnn transportation analyst and former inspector of the department of transportation mary sciavo. Whats your reaction to these reports that objects or projectiles are hitting trains . And can they really derail a train . This seems to be if all this is correct, it seems to be a piece of the puzzle we have been missing. We have an engineer that people reported as conscientious, wasnt on a cell phone, wasnt on drugs, no indication he was sleepy. Somehow we know he had to put the train into that speed. Trains dont run away like in the oldfashioned movies. He had to move the tloten intohrottle into that speed and he had to have his foot on the deadman switch. And then he threw the emergency brake. What we cant figure out is what distracted him. The good news about this is that the fbi and their forensics labs i have seen this kind of thing where we have bird strikes, bullet strikes, all sorts of things on transportation. And theyll be able to tell from the crazing marks. How the glass is crazed or chipped or broken. What hit it. And generally what hit it. Is it a bullet is it a rock is it a bird . I dont think its a bird. I think its probably a bullet. I dont know. You think its a bullet . Well i think so. Because of the third train. Now the first two trains were hit in the windshield. The third train was hit on the side. And with a force that alarmed the passengers. If it was someone throwing the rocks, thats very difficult. And as difficult, it would be difficult to move around in those areas to get close enough to the trains to do that. It doesnt have the classic bullet crazing pattern. Thats very distinct and theres a sharp, round hole and it crazes out from that area. You see tracks going out, you know in a radiation form. So it does look like a rock strike. But the third train is kind of significant. That it came in on the side and not from the front. This would be like kind of a thing would be like a rock off of an overpass. We talked with carl edler, the chairman of the Washington Branch of the brotherhood of locomotive engineers and trainmen earlier today. He talked about the fact that bostian had only an hour of rest in between train trips and most of which was probably taken up by switching trains filling out paperwork and doing equipment checks is that a real problem . Well ordinarily i would say yes, you need to get significant rest for any mode of transportation its hugely important. But here from we from the radio transmission he had his cell phone off. Its clear that he was awake and alert. He hadnt fallen asleep on the job. Which would be what you would assume. If somebody had put the train in this highspeed double the speed it should be. And then didnt brake until the very last minute. But with him on the radio talking about the train, the strike on the train, it doesnt seem to be the problem of being asleep. All right. Mary sciavo so appreciate your insight as always, thank you. Thank you. Well the day after the amtrak train crashed, a House Committee voted to cut hundreds of millions of dollars from amtraks funding. Well now a fight may be brewing on capitol hill. Well talk to a top democratic congresswoman next. Well track to south africas sowehto township where Classical Music is changing the lives of young people and a musical superstar introduces us to a talented 10yearold with a big future in his hands. I want to see possibilities to always bring new audiences and to see hey, look guys and ladies we actually doing something, think well fit in your lifestyle as well. Im caridee. Ive had moderate to Severe Plaque Psoriasis most of my life. But that hasnt stopped me from modeling. My doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. With only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. Stelara® helps me be in season. Stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. Some serious infections require hospitalization. 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Next month the house will take up the annual transportation bill. And thats of course more relevant now, because of the amtrak crash that happened on tuesday. The day after the derailment republicanled House Committee voted to slash amtrak funds by nearly 252 million. Democratic congresswoman marcie camper joins us now, she serves on the House Appropriations committee. Good to have you this morning. Thank you, its a pleasure to be with you today. Youve heard the arguments from opponents of increasing funding for amtrak. That the country shouldnt be in the business of a nationalized train system. Its throwing good money after bad. Maybe it should be privatized. Your response is what . Well to use the expression theyre dead wrong. And our hearts go out to the families who lost loved ones. To all the injured. Some of whom are still recovering from the terrible crash. And i would say im very proud to be a member of a party that believes in Passenger Rail modernized the best in the world. Moving toward that. And also a modernized freight rail. I come from a part of the country where its part ever our spine. We cant get along without it. But to do that the way youre describing and to i guess have the u. S. Train system the rail system meet what were seeing in europe and in asia is going to cost according to a 2012 estimate more than 100 billion. Where is that money going to come from . Well you know in our part of the country rail traffic has gone up by about 48 . You see double stacks of all our major carriers going through here with freight. My first answer is from the users. As well as from the public of the United States. Because this helps contribute to our National Strength economically on the passenger side weve had a real struggle here in ohio. I was part of a group that passed ledge slays to put 400 million into places Like Northern ohio. We have a governor who isnt from Northern Ohio who gave the money back to the federal government so sadly unlike the east coast where you have separated passenger and freight rail. Here our passenger and freight rail go into the same track. And that means that only 2. 7 of passenger trains reach their destination on time. They have to get off the track to let freight go through, fright frait freight has priority this has to be a partnership between the private carriers between the government of the United States and our states to help us embrace the future and not live in the 19th century. Congresswoman marci captor. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you. We want to thank you so much for spending part of your morning with us its been a busy one, weve ha lot of giveandtake here and a lot of developments and we are always happy to bring that to you. But always grateful for your company. Go make some great memories today, by the way. Well continue to move forward on the breaking news the announcement of the special operations the special forces going in and trying to get and killing abu sayaff who pass that off to fredricka witfield who is leaving the next hour of the cnn news room. But that hasnt stopped me from modeling. My doctor told me about stelara® it helps keep my skin clearer. With only 4 doses a year after 2 starter doses. Stelara® helps me be in season. Stelara® may lower your ability to fight infections and increase your risk of infections. Some serious infections require hospitalization. Before starting stelara® your doctor should test for tuberculosis. Stelara® may increase your risk of cancer. Always tell your doctor if you have any sign of infection have had cancer, or if you develop any new skin growths. Do not take stelara® if you are allergic to stelara® or any of its ingredients. Alert your doctor of new or worsening problems including headaches, seizures, confusion and vision problems. These may be signs of a rare potentially fatal brain condition. Serious allergic reactions can occur. Tell your doctor if you or anyone in your house needs or has recently received a vaccine. In a medical study most stelara® patients saw at least 75 clearer skin and the majority were rated as cleared or minimal at 12 weeks. Stelara® helps keep my skin clearer. Ask your doctor about stelara®. Meet the worlds newest Energy Superpower. Surprised . In fact, america is now the worlds number one natural gas producer. And we could soon become number one in oil. Because Hydraulic Fracturing Technology is safely recovering lots more oil and natural gas. Supporting millions of new jobs. Billions in tax revenue. And a new century of American Energy security. The new Energy Superpower . Its red, white and blue. Log on to learn more. Hello, it is 11 00 on the east coast, im fredricka witfield, newsroom starts right now. Our coverage of the breaking news in the battle against isis continues, u. S. Special operations conduct a raid deep in eastern syria. Killing a senior isis figure and capturing his wife. The story reported first on cnn from pentagon correspondent barbara star. U. S. Army special Operations Forces and that means delta forc