This is 10monthold derina among the youngest victims. Her mother took this photo before the family took off for that trip to egypt. The little girl, her mother and her father were all killed. I want to bring in matthew chance. He is in st. Petersburg for us this evening. You know, when you look i mean, wow looking behind you, just seeing how much that makeshift memorial has grown there, what are people saying on the ground . Reporter yeah, well, its obviously deeply, deeply sad, the atmosphere here. And even now, what is it, 2 00 in the morning here local time in st. Petersburg, people are still coming out, and they are paying their respects and laying flowers. A gentleman over here doing exactly that, lighting candles, putting childrens toys at this memorial outside the arrivals gate at the airport where the plane was destined to come, was supposed to be coming. Obviously its become the focus of those sad commemorations, of that tragic loss of life. 224 People Killed as a result of the crash. At the investigation, though, still very much in its early sames, poppy. Theres been one Russian Aviation official who has given us some sign of clarity. He said that the aircraft broke into pieces at altitude in the skies over the Sinai Peninsula and then spread debris over an area some 7 1 2 square miles. And so that gives us an indication, a first glimmer of an indication of what really took place in the skies over the Sinai Peninsula. The good news, i suppose, if there is any good news is that the black boxes are in the hands of the authorities now. And the data from those flight recorders will most likely give us a good indication of what took place with that metrojet airliner, poppy. Matthew, were there any concerns over safety connected to this airline, metrojet . Reporter thats a good question. I mean, there were a couple of strands of the investigation under way at the moment. One of them is certainly that some kind of, you know, maintenance issue, some kind of problem with the pilots could have been a factor. In fact, metrojet, have been in the past, castigated, criticized by the russian government for their maintenance issues, in a different kind of aircraft, fff154 which is an old russiantype aircraft. Back in 2010 2011, that whole fleet of Airlines Airplanes was grounded because of a problem with fires breaking out in them. And that was focused around the metrojet company as well. This was an airbus a321, a very different type of airliner. But again, it casts, you know, some doubt on the maintenance issues with this airline. But again, maintenance is just one of the strands. The fact that a Russian Aviation official has suggested that the plane broke up at altitude provides another sort of strand as well. I mean, the authorities here in russia and in egypt are trying to rule out the idea that this was terrorism related. But, of course, we wont really know until the investigation is more progressed. Matthew chance live for us this evening in st. Petersburg thank you very much, matthew. As he said, so many questions still remain about why this happened, especially when the plane was cruising at above 30,000 feet. Why did it suddenly disappear from radar . The pilot apparently never called for help. No signal of trouble. No s. O. S. Call, and now this is what remains in egypts Sinai Peninsula. Aviation analyst mary schiavo joins me now. Mary, when you look at this just hours after the crash, the Egyptian Government declared there says no sign of trucerror here, nothing nefarious. How would they know that so far . Well, usually they know because no one has taken credit or they havent seen any obvious signs. In this case, it would have to be a bomb or a missile if it was a terrorist attack. The two threat factors typically introduced onto an aircraft. And they just dont have any information that occurred. I think they cannot rule it out at this point. They certainly cant rule out an onboard bomb at this point. Theyre saying it doesnt appear likely. This is a plane that had 56,000 hours of flight logged, and you look at what the Russian Aviation officials are saying today, and that is that they are saying definitively they dont know what caused it, but what they do know is that it broke apart in midair. How would you determine that, mary . Well, because of the flight track you know, whenever i look at a plane crash, i always start a plane crash investigation, i look back to previously crashes and what caused those, and there are two things that jump out here. As this plane was climbing the altitude track is what changed dramatically. The air speed remained constant. So the engines were still working, and they were Still Producing power. But in a one minute had just one minute, something very, very dramatic happened. The plane pitched up and dramatically climbed and then fell from the sky. In previous crashes that has meant the loss of a structural member. For example, in alaska air, it lost the horizontal stabilizer, the part of the tail that controls the nose up or nose down. In American Airlines 587 in 2001, prior damage to an airbus was significant because it lost part of the tail as well. So with this kind of a flight track other than an explosion or bomb, like tw800 or pan am 103 which also part of the plane pitched up, other than that, it looks like a loss of the control structure. Now we know air france, lufthansa, emirates all saying they will not fly for now over that part of the Sinai Peninsula. Mary schiavo, thank you very much for your analysis. Thank you. Coming up next, to politics. Imagine if the president ial debates were mostly just the candidates giving speeches. A lot less back and forth, more talking points. Well, that is what some of the candidates want. We will talk about their big meeting tonight in washington and about some of these proposals that frankly some are calling out as unrealistic next. Looks like some folks have had it with their Airline Credit card miles. Sometimes those seats cost a ridiculous number of miles. Or theres a fee to use them. I know. Its so frustrating. Theyd be a lot happier with the capital one venture card. And you would, too why . Its so easy with venture. You earn unlimited double miles on every purchase, every day. Just book any flight you want then use your miles to cover the cost. Now, thats more like it. Whats in your wallet . More and more people with type 2 diabetes are learning about longacting levemir®. As my diabetes changed, it got harder to control my blood sugar. Today, im asking about levemir®. Vo levemir® is an injectable insulin that can give you blood sugar control for up to 24 hours. 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Get medical help right away if you have trouble breathing, sweating, extreme drowsiness, swelling of your face, tongue, or throat, dizziness, or confusion. Todays the day to ask about levemir® flextouch. Covered by most Health Insurance and medicare plans. To politics and some of the republican president ial candidates not happy with their own party and how theyre running the debate process. They want changes and not just a few tweaks. Some of them want to change the format entirely. Tonight, the campaigns are meeting in washington to try to coordinate their demands that they will then send to the Republican National committee. Part of the fallout from wednesday nights debate on cnbc. The meeting was organized by ben carson who offered this criticism on abcs this week. We should have moderators who are interested in disseminating the information about the candidates as opposed to, you know, gotcha. You did this. Well, you defend yourself on that. You know. Well, here are just some of the other changes carson wants to see. Twohour debates where each candidate gets five minutes for opening and five minutes for closing statements. And with 14 candidates on the stage, that mean s more than haf of the debate would go to individual statements. That would leave just about three to four minutes for each candidate to actually debate, and thats if you dont have any commercials. I want to bring in our commentators, Marc Lamont Hill and ben ferguson. Also, guys, we just got this note in that shawn karencross, the chief operating officer of the rnc and former chief counsel will take the central role in the debate process as they try to hash all of this out and the demands that come to them from the candidates tonight. So you, ben, first. What do you make of carsons demands . Are they just unrealist uic . Well, i dont think hes going to get this. This is where you go in with an extreme idea and then you agree on something thats more realistic afterwards. And i think this is proof that all the campaigns are really looking to take back this process. They do not feel like the rnc has done a good job. In fact, most of the campaigns ive talked to over the last couple days have said that they think the rncs lost control of the debate process. I think when you set this bar high, no one thinks theres going to be fiveminute Closing Opening and have half the debate heres who i am and this is what i want. Voters would not really want to see that at all. It would be incredibly boring, you know, prerehearsed and just dull. I think this is more of a play of hey, youd better start listening to us and pay attention. Were set on one minute, were fine with that, but were not going to take a beating like this last debate. Its interesting, marc, because carson has also called for fewer debates. When you look back historically, just look at the last election, 2012, there were 20 republican debates in the primary. This year there are 11. You would think that maybe someone with less debate experience like carson would want more debates. What do you make of that . I think carson is trying to play to his strengths. He wants five minutes in and five minutes out in terms of statements because his statements are preprepared. Theyre settled. Theyre clear. And he doesnt have to engage the rest his interlocutors. For him, it plays to his strength. Ben carson has managed to be wildly successful without necessarily doing well in debates. So for him, it makes sense. Somebody like marco rubio, quite oppositely, would say, wait a minute. We should have more detates as publicly as possible. Fiorina would say lets have as many televised debates as possible because thats the only way i can stay on the national radar. So each candidate is asking for adjustments that make sense based on their weaknesses and based on their needs. Im not surprised that carson would ask for fewer debates and for them to be largely based on prepared statements rather than engaging the other candidates. It all makes sense. I think what has to happen, though, is that the rnc at some point has to wrest back control of these debates so that it doesnt look like a freeforall and they cannot allow what happened on cnbc to happen again where it essentially becomes a Battle Royale that even the party itself finds distasteful. We heard from john kasich this morning on state of the union, and he seemed fine with the questions, but he did have an issue with the response times. Listen. Its too short, but its what you deal with. I mean, sit around and, you know, criticize everybody. Its just not my style on this thing. I will criticize programs and plans that i think are goofy. Heres what i do know. I know that harry truman couldnt get elected president with explaining United States of Americas Health care plan in 30 seconds. Its a good point. I mean, ben, we in the media get criticized a lot for asking people to, you know, tell me everything you know in 30 seconds. How much time should they have . Every campaign that ive talked to since the last debate seems to have one agreement amongst all of them. They want more time to hash out and discuss ideas. Not only for remarks but also for responses. And i think this last debate really, the way that cnbc did it, there was no structure to ideas. No structure to foreign policy, domestic policy. It was more of im going to table you know, have a question, go directly to this person and kind of this i gotcha way. And so all the candidates, regardless of where they are in the polls, have said they do want a grand conversation. Not so much of a debate on what you did or didnt do but more of a conversation on ideas. And i think that will come out of this meeting. I want to get marc in here one last time because i keep struggling with this because as i said last hour, when i or anyone goes through a Job Interview, you dont lay the ground rules. How much power should they have . I think they have to have some control over this because if the candidates dont play ball, then we all lose. They could all essentially although it wouldnt likely happen they could all walk away from this and just go on the campaign trail. I agree with you. It is a Job Interview but its not the only phase of the interview. Candidates can lay out their full debate in their town hll meeting when they hit the ground running in iowa and new hampshire. I think theyre testing. Thats the best part. I agree but what im saying you shouldnt be able to lay out your whole health care plan. You should be defending your plan. You should be on the campaign trail. I think these candidates are depending on these debates too much and using them almost as a crutch. Thank you. Well see what happens. Theyre meeting right now in washington. Well see what the demands are. Thank you, gentlemen. Thank you. Ahead, we head to the front lines in the fight against isis. Our very own Clarissa Ward visiting towns and villages under the rule of isis. People scared about what could happen. What is their future even after isis is driven out . Reporter dozens of villages like this one that were liberated from isis months ago are now still completely deserted. Now, thats partly because the isis militants, before they retreated, planted land mines and booby traps all across this area. But its also because many people arent convinced that isis wont be coming back. They think that its sad. I think its important for everyone to know that there is so much more to memory support than the stigmas you hearabout. That these residents still have lives and their lives still matter and that they are still living their lives. That theyre not locked away and that they still have a lot to live for, you know, that they have people that care about them and they have people that love them and i love them, so their lives still matter. That is what i do this for. The most advanced iphone yet. Get the new iphone 6s at tmobile. The network thats doubled its lte coverage in the past year. Our new extended range lte signal now reaches twice as far as before. And is four times better in buildings. Get our lowest price on iphone 6s with tradein. Zero upfront and just 5 bucks a month with jump on demand. Get it now at tmobile. Glad i could help you plan for your retirement. Alright, kelly and promise me that youll try that taco place on south street. And we have portfolio planning tools to help you manage your ira. Yeah, youre old 401k give me your phone. The rollover consultants give you stepbystep help. No setup fees. Use your potion. Sorry, not you. My pleasure. Goodnight, tim. For all the confidence you need. Whos tim . Td ameritrade. You got this. Now to the latest in the war against isis. The new u. S. Backed alliance in syria announcing it is in the midst of an offensive targeting the terror groups strongholds near the border with iraq. Coalition forces say parts of up with syrian province have been liberated, but there is men tu of evidence that isis is not far away. Our very own Clarissa Ward traveled through the region and found a landscape scarred by battle and haunted by fear. Reporter well, poppy, we spent time in areas that were recently liberated from isis control, but you wont find anybody celebrating there, and thats because the extent of the devastation that has been left behind by the fighting is enormous. And the future for many people is still so uncertain. Weeks ago, these dusty planes were held by isis. This is whats left of its presence now. The charred remains of a Training Camp hidden in a pine forest. Its where isis trained an elite unit of suicide bombers that attacked kurdish positions with devastating effect. Kurdish fighters known as the ypg took this entire area from isis in august. But holding it along a front line more than 400 miles long is a huge challenge. In the shadow of mount abdulaziz, the commander told us that he had lost 30 of his fighters in a recent battle when isis came down from the mountain. Translator the enemy attacked us with a large number of fighters using heavy weapons. They took control of three villages, and after that, the clashes lasted for hours until we were in control again. Reporter zenar is a battalion commander, but this is the size of his battalion. A handful of poorly equipped men. The nearest Friendly Forces are miles away. The cost of pushing isis out has been enormous. Streets here are draped with the flags of fighters killed in battle along desolate roads through abandoned villages, we saw scene upon scene of devastation. The wreckage of months of fierce fighting and relentless coalition airstrikes. Dozens of villages like this one that were liberated from isis months ago are now still completely deserted. Now, thats partly because the isis militants, before they retreated, plants land mines and booby traps all across this area. But its also because many people here arent convinced that isis wont be coming back. In the tiny village, we met a woman whos lived here all her life. She told us she was too afraid to leave home when isis was in control, that they beat and killed people and brought misery upon the community. There were no airstrikes before they arrived, and then the strikes started. There was one next to me. We were scared of everything, not just isis. Are you still afraid, i ask . She says not but glances warily at the kurdish ypg fighters with us. The kurds question the loyal tu of many of these villages, claiming they harbor isis sympathizers. The killing may have stopped, but there is no peace here. The main problem you hae in syria right now is that those sectarian and ethnic divisions have been deepened by years and years of fighting. We drove past one village where a boy was chanting god bless isis and then poppy, the next moment wed talk to a kurdish fighter who would say, you know, were syrians, but we are kurds first. Clarissa ward, thank you very much. Coming up next, could an accident more than a decade ago be to blame for that deadly plane crash in egypts Sinai Peninsula . Aviation experts zeroing in on an incident 14 years ago that may be linked to this tragedy. Our expert weighs in next. Plaque psoriasis. Isnt it time to let the. Real you shine. Through . Introducing otezla, apremilast. Otezla is not an injection, or a cream. Its a pill that treats plaque psoriasis differently. Some people who took otezla saw 75 clearer skin after 4 months. And otezlas prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont take otezla if you are allergic to any of its ingredients. Otezla may increase. The risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression. Or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Side effects may include diarrhea, nausea, upper respiratory tract infection, and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take, and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Ask your doctor about otezla today. Otezla. Show more of you. The russian plane that crashed killing everyone on board, those 224 people returning from vacation in egypt, that same plane was involved in a previous incident weve now learned 14 years ago. According to the aviation safety network, it was operated by a Different Airline at the time, and it reported a tail strike incident in 2001 while it was landing in cairo. Lets bring in daily beast contributor clive irving, also an expert on aviation, author of jumbo the making of the 747. You wrote extensively about this in your piece today, and you talk about that tail strike, but its hard for me to get my head around how a 2001 event on a plane thats repaired and goes on to fly for 14 years, how could that be tied, you think, to what happened yesterday . Well, the first thing to realize is its highly unusual for a plane to break up in the air like this. Its very rare. Normally planes break up in the air only if they hit another plane or if theyre hit by a missile. And the nature of this plane fell, in such a sudden and dramatic way, i felt yesterday when i looked at the circumstances that it could have been only something so extreme and sudden that the pilot had no chance to report what had happened. And then i started thinking about what kind of technical structural failure could have occurred to create something as devastating as that. I looked at the planes record, as youve talked about. And found that it had this incident in i think it was 2001 in cairo where a tail strike is when the plane comes in to land toofarnosedup attitude and the tail strikes the tarmac first instead of the wheels. And this is not an unusual event, but apparently this one was very violent, and it caused severe structural damage. So i started to look at the rear end of the plane and what the consequences of that could be. Now, obviously, it was repaired and put back into service. And obviously, it would have had very rigorous safety checks, i assume, on a regular basis. And if there had been any recurring sign of damage at that end of the plane, it ought to have been detected. But theres a very critical piece of equipment at the back of the plane which is called the rear pressurization bulkhead. And the airplane cabin itself is a pressure vessel. Its like a submarine in reverse in that the air pressure inside the plane is higher than the pressure outside the plane. So theres always the pressure to break out. Obviously, airplanes are built with great care to satisfy all the very strict there must be for structure and integrity to make sure that something doesnt happen that ruptures the skin of the plane. This was such a sudden event that it must have been a very forceful explosion. And the wreckage on the ground is a clue to this because the tail apparently has been found three miles away thefrom the no. Now, it seems that the tail broke away from the rest of the plane. And therefore, i related that fact to the fact that this tail strike and it seemed to me that its quite possible that some kind of structural damage went or may have simply manifested itself very late after the last inspection and not been detected. Wow, its an incredibly troubling thought, considering how much so many of us fly all the time. Clive, thank you very much. For those of you who want to know, you can read clives article about exactly this today. Just go to the dailybeast. Com. Thank you, clive. Youre welcome. It is a phrase that we have all heard before, a house divided against itself cannot stand. That is exactly what new speaker of the house paul ryan has inherited in washington. He begins his full week as speaker tomorrow. Can he make a difference . Is this a new day in washington . Next. Its back tmobiles most popular family plan. Get 4 lines with up to 10 gigs of 4g lte data, each. No sharing just 30 bucks a line need new phones for the family . Get the Samsung Galaxy s6 for zero upfront, and just ten bucks a month. Plus, get a samsung 4g lte tablet on us when you get a new data plan only from tmobile. It takes a lot of work. But i really love it. S. Im on the move all day long. And sometimes, i just dont eat the way i should. So i drink boost® to get the nutrition that im missing. Boost complete nutritional drink has 26 essential vitamins and minerals, including calcium and vitamin d to support strong bones and 10 grams of protein to help maintain muscle. All with a great taste. I dont plan on slowing down any time soon. Stay strong. Stay active with boost®. This is cnn breaking news. I have some sad news to bring you this sunday evening. Former u. S. Senator and republican president ial candidate also actor Fred Thompson has passed away. You know that face. You know that smile very well. According to a statement from his family, he died today after a battle with lymphoma. His family said it is with a heavy heart and a deep sense of grief that we share the passing of our brother, husband, father and grandfather who died peacefully in nashville surrounded by his family. He enjoyed a hearty laugh, a strong handshake, a good cigar and a healthy dose of humility. While younger generations know thompson for his role on law order, as an attorney, he helped lead the watergate investigation and the resignation of richard nixon. He then served as senator from tennessee for eight years. Youll recall in 2008 he ran for president , coming in third in iowa. He eventually dropped out. In his book he said it was the First Time Ever he couldnt accomplish something that he set out to do. Fred thompson was 73 years old. Joining me on the phone, david gergen, cnn political analyst, and also a former adviser to four president s. David, it is a very sad loss. Only 73 years old. A long battle with lymphoma. He was diagnosed in 2004. What do you remember him most for . Oh, he was one of the most talented and personal people one can remember in public life. But i must say what made a lasting impression on me was his service to the country, really, and during the watergte hearings. Yeah. There was a special Committee Formed in the senate in which howard baker of tennessee was the minority leader as a republican. And it was Fred Thompson. He bought in as minority counsel to the republican side. And fred was the man who was thought to have come up with a question that he gave to howard baker, what did the president know and when did he know it . And that framed much of the hearings, famous hearings, and very importantly in the midst of the hearings, the republican side learne from Alex Butterfield as recounted by bob woodward in his new book on butterfield. They learned that nixon had a taping system. And three days later after they learned that, it was Fred Thompson on National Television who asked the question of butterfield in testimony, was there a taping system in the white house . And butterfield said yes, sir. That was the Pivotal Moment and brought the downfall of nixon because once the tapes came out, he was done for. Yeah. He is survived, of course, by his wife, geri. He is father to five children. When you look at his ability to resonate on screen in terms of as an actor, i mean, he was in hunt for red october. He was in law order a lot. Yes. How did he carry that into politics . Yeah, he was you know, it was in his he served for a term in the senate and in his last months when he was in the senate, in tennessee, he signed this contract with law order. And he became even more of a household name, of course. And he was a fine actor. He went on to do that. He also, you know, had been an attorney. Because he had been an assistant u. S. Attorney after graduating from vanderbilt, he by the way was the first person from his large family who went to college. So he came out from a hardscrabble background and made something for himself. You know, it was only a few months ago we were seeing him in advertisements for things like the super owl and things like that. So hes been a public figure, think of that, from the mid70s right through now. Thats a long, long span of time when hes been out there and seen as a principal as well as warm and gregarious man. Yeah. I think a lot of people will remember that smile of his, someone who had quite a full life at 73 years old. Fred thompson has died. David gergen, thanks very much. Also staying on politics, paul ryan getting ready to begin his first full week as speaker of the house. Thank you. Thank you very much. He officially took the gavel on thursday after easily winning the election. Succeeding retiring speaker john boehner, he promises to wipe the slate clean, saying this will be a new day in washington. But there are some enormous challenges. Even ryan admitted the house is broken. Cnn political commentator peter bynart is with me. Thank you for being with me. Before ryan, your thoughts on Fred Thompson. Its interesting, when he ran in 2008, there was a moment when it looked like might even be the frontrunner. People said he might be the next ronald reagan. It turned out it didnt work for thomps thompson, but if you think about this moment now with donald trump, we are seeing this return of the idea that someone who has made a career of celebrity, you know, on screen that that can be transferable to politics. It seems to me Fred Thompson is an interesting moment in that evolution towards trump. Fa famous question during the watergate investigation that david gergen brought up, what did the president know, and when did he know it . No matter when you were born, you know that moment. Lets talk about paul ryan. I thought it was interesting because a lot has been said about the fact that paul ryan did not want this job. Right. At all as speaker. John boehner is the one who finally convinces paul ryan to take it. Lets play how he described that moment of convincing ryan to our dana bash. Well, first, i laid every ounce of catholic guilt i could on him. How does that go, lay some catholic guilt on me. I want to know what that feels like. You have no choice. This isnt about what you want to do. This is about what god wants you to do. And god told me he wants you to do this. You pulled eed the god card. Listen, paul is the right guy at the right time. I knew he didnt want to do it. He kept telling me he didnt want to do it. But it was obvious to me that he was the right person for the job. And i had to do everything i could to convince him. He didnt want to do it. Now hes doing it. What does paul ryan do with this power . It will be very interesting to see. Now, the speaker of the house is traditionally a wheeler dealer, a deal maker. Thats not paul ryans background. Paul ryan is a wonk. Hes someone whos known in the Republican Party for being very knowledgeable about the budget. I think he likes to deal with the budget. Hes also a good public face with the Republican Party. Better, frankly than john boehner was. I think the big question we dont know is how will he deal as an inside operator . Its a very tough job. And he doesnt have a lot of background in this. Right. And its one thing to say what youre going to do. Its another thing to actually do it in the confines and constraints of washington. Lets listen to what he said about dana bash about that this morning as well. How are you going to control the 40 or so members of that socalled Freedom Caucus in a way that john boehner couldnt . Well, i think members are pl frustrated that they didnt have the opportunity to express their views on the floo are. I think its too tightly controlled. I want members of congress leveraging their constituents, having the ability and the process to actually advance ideas. So i think that frustration is frustration that i shared, actually, as a House Republican before becoming speaker. Can he do it . Can he make this a new day in washington . Hes going to have make a fundamental decision. If he wants to get big things done, hes going to have to do it in partnership with democrats, things that president obama will sign, and that will upset the most rightwing members of his caucus. If he does that, the people same people who dont like they wont like him. Dom caucus, but if he gives into them, then he wont be able to make big change. So thats the fundamental decision. He cant make everyone happy. Its interesting, you know, a lot of people look at him as potential president ial candidate. He said i would have run if he wanted to this time around. I didnt want to. Only james polk, the 11th president , has gone from being speaker to president. Well see. Maybe paul ryan defies that next time around. Well watch. Right. Unlikely. You know, once you get the public image as a sausage maker, as someone whos in the weeds in washington, thats not generally the best route to run for president. This is true. Peter bynart, nice to see you, as always. Coming up next, companies scrimping and scraping, saving, rather, to make the most money possible. But what if they could increase profits by paying their employees more . Is this a crazy idea, or is this what Business Needs . American opportunity next. Actually be exactly what i am. I got to hang a picture. It may not seem like much, but to that resident it was the best thing in the world. Its amazing to me because it takes me seconds. But yet, when i go into the apartment, im there for half an hour. It is not just hanging a picture, it is conversing, it is being a friend. There arent old people there. There are actually young people with old clothing on. I tried depend last weekend. It really made the difference between a morning around the house and getting a little exercise. Only depend underwear has new confidence Core Technology for fast absorption and the smooth, comfortable fit of fitflex™ protection. Get a coupon at depend. Com well, you heard senator ted cruz say it in the gop debate this week that 1 of americans earn a higher share of income than any year since 1928. Also, if you look at the u. S. Census data, 46. 7 million americans right now are living in poverty. Some of them are working. Many of them are working but theyre not making enough to get by. So as this debate over minimum wage in this country persists what if paying employees more were actually good for a companys bottom line . I sat down with the m. I. T. Professor who says that is exactly the case. The book, the good job strategy, you say most companies see their employees as a cost they try to minimize. Yeah. That seems to make economic sense, but you argue that is a huge mistake. Why is it a mistake . Its a mistake because when companies see your labor as just a cost to be minimized people are not engaged with their work and they dont do a great job, and the result of that is lots of operational problems. I studied this in the context of Retail Stores and what i found is companies that treat their labor as just a cost, the outcome is, you know, the checkout lines are too long. Products are not where theyre supposed to be. The data are inaccurate. All of these problems end up reducing sales, reducing profits and put retailers in a vicious cycle. Let me push back on that and ask why has capitalism for the most part worked so well . Why is it arguably the best system out there if youre saying most companies do this, but its wrong . Most Companies Operate in mediocrity, it comes at the expense of their employees, it comes at the expense of their customers but its still a profitable strategy. Think about henry ford when he first thought about the assembly line, right . He had an idea. He said, why do i need to hire a whole person when all i node is a pair of hands . He treated people that way. He made money, but it came at the expense of productivity, it came at the expense of quality, but it was a profitable strategy. Then toyota came along and said, you know what, were going to use people as resources that improve our system every day, and they show that thats a much better approach, not just for the workers but the company overall. You studied, youre a professor at m. I. T. , what you looked at were these Retail Stores, supermarkets, quick trip, a chain of gas stations and convenience stores. Tell me what companies this works for which is raising salaries, giving them a better sort of work schedule. Who does that work for . Who doesnt it work for . I think if we think about higher wages and better schedules in the context of a broader strategy, an operating system that really maximizes peoples contribution and improvements it can work in any system. Really . Weve seen it from manufacturing. The origins come from manufacturing, to airlines, to steel mills. Youve seen the strategy at work in lots of different industries. Give me an example where it works. Where it worked . It worked. Many manufacturing, toyota is a great example, Southwest Airlines is a great example, Lowcost Airline that thrives in investing in its people and a good operating system. What do you think will force the change to happen . One example you give is quick trip, the chain of convenience stores. You know, youre talking about a lot of what people would think of as minimum wage jobs, so whats the catalyst to have change across the board, do you think . I think in the Retail Sector we are seeing some economic changes, economic contributors to this. So internet, ecommerce retail is taking a lot of share away from brick and mortar retailers, so the brick and mortar retailers need to give their, you know, customers a reason to shop there. You call them human centered operations strategies. Thats what you think companies should strive for. You also note in the book theyre not quick or easy, and its one thing for a Major Corporation to adopt this, and maybe take some losses on the front end as theyre getting comfortable with it. Its another thing for a Small Business, a mom and pop shop, to implement this when they are, frankly, trying to make payroll every pay cycle. Can they do it . They can absolutely do it, and in some ways its easier for a Small Business to do it, a Large Company to change, especially Large Public Companies to change because this strategy is a strategy to reduce cost, but labor is not a cost. You think about labor as an asset to be maximized, but this strategy reduces costs everywhere else in the system. Right now, the debate over minimum wage in this country is front and center certainly playing into this election. The fight for 15. Fast food workers fighting for 15 minimum wage here in new york city, elsewhere. Is 15 an hour as a floor the level . I mean, what makes economic sense because theres also a lot of economists will argue even some liberals who will argue, sounds great, youll lose millions of jobs. I think 7. 25 of minimum wage is way too low. How high it will go ill leave economists to debate that. Any idea . 10, 11 . Im not a macroeconomist, but we need to shift the discussion from higher minimum wages to better jobs because higher wages dont go so far for employees if they cant get enough hours. Higher wages dont go so far for employees if they still have very unpredictable schedules. Higher wages dont go so far for employees if they dont find meaning and dignity in their work. And if they are not set up for success and growth. What you want to see is, and what you argue is good for this country economically, is a sea change in the way that Companies Operate. Do you believe we will see what youre envisioning . Thats the only reason i go to work every single day. You know, im inspired by my students who are now thinking about creating companies that can operate this way. Im inspired by executives who have reached out to me since the book came out to figure out is there a way we can implement this in our organization . I think there will be changes. I think the capitalism will save itself and will work in a way that benefits companies. Capitalism will save itself. From itself. From itself. Thank you very much. Appreciate the conversation. Coming up next, tonights number. Plaque psoriasis. Isnt it time to let the. Real you shine. Through . 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Com and on our mobile app. Coming up next parts unknown starting with Anthony Bourdain in the bay area, then he heads to ethiopia at 8 00 and a brand new parts unknown in borneo at 9 00 p. M. Eastern. Im poppy harlow. Have a great week. I will never be young again. Or any younger than i am today. I will never be faster or more flexible