Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom With Kate Bolduan 20210406

Chief, were jumping back in. Lets listen back in. Do you train both cadets, recruits as well as veteran officers . Yes, i do. Okay. And can you describe the difference between the training that a cadet would receive versus a veteran officer . Something like this is given to the recruits. Some officers go through the other training. We would get into the training. We will introduce all the topics. All the topics like offer them those and go through different crisis training. Its different from what the recruits and the regular officer will do it with veteran officers is it generally the same type broad categories of information . Its possible the same, yeah, similar. We want to be consistent. Similar, yes. Right. And so the information that a veteran officer would offer in training is inclusive of what to look for in terms of crisis, would it not . Yes. Right. You would train officers on the policy about crisis intervention. Correct . Yes. You would train them about what to look for when a person is in crisis, right . Yes. You are talking about recruit training or the veteran officer . Veteran officer. The veteran officers are you referring to the 40 hour training . Yes. 40 hour training, i dont that for the veteran officers. That is the officer association. Okay. So you dont know any information that the veteran Training Officer the veteran officers would receive . I do know some of it. But not the entire curriculum. Okay. Youve trained veteran officers yourself . I do. But not in the 40 hour week. Understood. But in the refresher type course . Refresher type course, yes. In the refresher type courses do you discuss with officers the policy of crisis intervention . Yes. Do you discuss with officers the signs to look for both in terms of suspects as well as individuals observing . Is it. Especially the suspects. Especially the suspects yes. But ultimately, you would agree that training also includes the critical Decision Making model, right . Yes. And the critical Decision Making model is not limited to or focused on simply the suspect, correct . Objection, leading. Hes back on to a topic where he can lead now. Correct . Im sorry . Objection is overruled so you cant answer. Okay. Will you repeat that, sir . I have to remember my question. The critical Decision Making policy that you train veteran officers on, would be inclusive of people other than just the suspect. Is that correct . There is no policy on the critical Decision Making model, only on the crisis policy. Okay. The critical Decision Making policy i keep saying policy, but its model. The critical Decision Making model is not limited to interpreting or responding to the suspect exclusively, is it . Thats correct. An officer is trained in the critical Decision Making model to go out and review the entirety of the situation, the totality of the circumstances, correct . Thats correct, sir. And the totality of the circumstances is more than just how you interact with the subject of whom youre arresting . Right . Thats correct. That would include citizen bystanders. Right . Thats correct. What do to do when a citizen you about stander steps in. If there is a threat or arrest . Right. How to consider your own interactions also with the suspect themselves, correct . Thats correct. And you describe this critical Decision Making model as being a very dynamic ever changing thing based upon information that comes to the officer in real time. Right . Thats correct. Yes, sir. And so an officer may consider who has used force may move backwards in the policy but may have to jump somewhere eliminatelse in the model because new information comes . Yes, sir. So it is a constantly evolving process whe is where a officer is entrusted to make decisions based on all information that he or she perceives, correct . Yes, sir. And that also they offered training, right . Yes, sir. And other things that may not be apparent to a citizen. Yes, sir. Right. Tactical Decision Making, for example. Yes, sir. Knowing that help wassen open the way, right . Is. Yes, sir. Making decisions about officers safety, right . Yes, sir. So all of these thing its not just one small thing that youre focusing on the subject, youre taking in a lot of information and processing it all kind of simultaneously through this critical Decision Making model . Agreed. Yes, sir. All right. But in terms of the information that you advise or talk to officers, veteran officers about, are how to recognize the signs of someone in crisis. Right . Yes, sir. This policy has a specific definition of what constitutes a crisis, right . Yes, sir. Its not limited to someone who may have a Mental Health problem, right . Yes, sir. It could include people who are using controlled substances . Yes, sir. It could include people that are simply experiencing some event that is overwhelming them, right . Yes, sir. En that may be losing a job or getting a divorce but it is what that person is observing at the time, zbagreed . Yes, sir. So the crisis intervention policy actually defines crisis as having a trajectory, correct . Yes, sir. And that trajectory can increase in the severity over time. Yes, sir. And thats why it becomes important for an officer to create time and distance, right . Yes, sir. And creating time and distance for an officer is an important part of the deescalation process, is it not . Yes, sir. And would you agree that you train Police Officers that as that intensity of crisis increases, the risk or threat to the officer grows greater . I dont believe i trained specifically like that. Because as the intensity, my training is the intensity increases and you have the distant like you said, the time you try to bring it down. Not increase intensity of it. What im talking about is not the officer trying to increase the intensity of it. My question is this. As a person is in crisis, and the intensity of their own personal crisis grows, you train officers that as they kind of get more intense, the risk to the officer or others is greater. Yes, sir. And, in fact, officers are trained to respond to in a a variety of ways, right . Yes, sir. Some of the technique thats the Minneapolis Police department trains both veterans and recruits would be to have a confidence about them, right . Confidence about them . Right. Yes, sir. An officer should try to appear confident in his or her actions. Yes, sir. They should also try to stay calm, right . Yes, sir. They should try to maintain space, right . Yes. They should speak slowly and softly. Yes, sir. They should avoid staring or eye contact . Yes, sir. And ultimately, when a Police Officer is dealing with any situation, they could be dealing with any number of people who are in crisis, right . Yes, sir. Right. The subject, the arrestee may be in crisis. Right . Yes, sir. People who are watching may be in crisis. Yes, sir. Another officer could be in crisis . Yes, sir. They have to take this in and make a determination what his or her next steps would be, right . Yes, sir. And the observations of the officer in that situation, i think you described on directexamination, you described that an officer will also take into and apply to the critical Decision Making model his own sensory, his or her own Sensory Perception . Yes, sir. So the touch, having a feeling a suspecting tense, right . Yes, sir. Or loose, right . Yes, sir. What they may hear comes into play. Yes, sir. So if they hear people threatening them or potentially threatening violence, that goes into that critical Decision Making model as well . Yes, sir. And often times the scene of an arrested individual is very tense, right . Yes, sir. I have no further pictures. Any redirect . Yes , sir. Can we publish exhibit 276 again, please . Thank you. So im explaining the critical Decision Making model that you been testifying about. And the thrust of your direct testimony was using this in terms of assessing a person in crisis with a purpose of determining whether or not they needed medical intervention, is that right . Yes, sir. Now in discussing this, again, all of these must be taken into account when deciding the next step, is that right . Yes, sir. And the officer always has to keep in mind their support to act. Thats one of the parts of the model. Is that right . Yes, sir. Now defense counsel asked you if the officer should just focus on one small thing. And i would like you to make some sort of comment on differentiating between a small thing and a big thing. You would agree that something is a big thing would be more important than a small thing. It depends on what a big thing is and what a small thing is. For example, if were looking at assessing somebodys medical condition, for the purpose of rendering emergency aid, would that be a big thing or a small thing . That would be a big thing. If then that is contrasted with, say, a 17yearold filming you with a camera. Is that a big thing, the filming, or a small thing . The filming is a small thing. And so then if youre taking all of the situations, all the circumstances into account, you have a big thing and you have a small thing. Youre looking at your authority to act. And that is policy, right . Yes, sir. And policy would include the policy governing the use of force and that it must be reasonable, correct . Yes, sir. And it would also include for authorities to act, a duty to render medical aid, is that right . Yes, sir. As the policy is written, correct . Yes, sir. Which includes not only contacting the ambulance but performing emergency aid like chest compressions or cpr . Yes, sir. Nothing further. Anything further . Please proceed. Sergeant yang, in terms of the critical Decision Making model, again, youre analyzing all of the things medical, aid, threats from citizens or observers, whether people are recording, what youre seeing, what youre feeling. It all is premised on whether it is safe and feasible to do something, correct . Yes, sir. Nothing further. Thank you, your honor. You may step down. All right. Theyre done with this witness. Sergeant ker yang. Let me bring in laura coates and Charles Ramsey. Im going to say in laymans terms this seemed a little bit meticulous for some of us. Ill include myself in this. As if they were kind of beating around the bush on something with this witness. Can you walk us through what we were watching . So heres the strategy of prosecutors. While many people watching it, they think to them sefldz, okay, we get the point. Youre belaboring something here. They have to be very meticulous and not leave any stone unturned. They have to make sure that theyre accounting for even the most obscure reference that may be taking a note by a juror that says they really get to the meat of the matter . They have to be exhausted even if it for the viewing audience it feels like theyre belaboring a point. However, this particular witness was there to talk about this crisis intervention. Im going to interrupt. We have to jump back to minneapolis right now. Lets jump in it. Thank you, your honor. Sir, how you are ploipd . With the city of Minneapolis Police department. What do you do for the city of minneapolis . Im currently on medical leave but im a lieutenant with the police department. How long you have been with mpd . Since 1996. Id like you to tell the jury a little bit about yourself. Could you share your educational background . Yes, sir. I got a four year degree from the university of north dakota in criminal justice studies. What year . I graduated 1995. Okay. And after you graduated from the university, did you get a job in Law Enforcement right away or did you go elsewhere . No, sir, i got hired from the Minneapolis Police department in 1996 and joined the Minneapolis Police academy. Describe your academy experience. I was a cadet. We did Police Academy and College Courses to qualify for the minnesota test. Did you take and pass the post test . Yes, sir. License peace officer . Wait a little bit so we dont talk over each other. Yes, sir. After you completed your course work, did you go into a Field Training program . Yes, sir. How long were you in that program . I believe it was about four months at that time. Then ghot your first assignment . Yes, sir. What did do you . I was signed to the third precinct, southeast minneapolis. Duties were patrolling the streets, answering 911 calls. Okay. How long did you serve as a Patrol Officer in the third precinct . Initially for a couple years and then to the Community Response team, a plain clothed unit. The Community Response team, i heard it called the crt . Yes. What does that do . They respond to the local communitys concerns about crime. Prostitution, drug dealing, gang activity. How long were you with the crt team . I did that for about three years. And then what was your assignment after . I went to the patrol unit, technically downtown unit at the time. What is a mounted patrol unit do . We patrol on horse back, mainly crowd control for busy times in minneapolis. We focus on downtown minneapolis. How long did you do that . Full time for about a year and a half. And then i went to patrol in downtown middle watch. Okay. And how long were you in the downtown middle watch . I was on downtown middle watch until 2006 and then promoted to sergeant. In order to be promoted for sergeant, did you take an exam and pass it . Yes, sir. Its a Civil Service exam along with an assessment center. After you were selected ads sergeant, you received your first assignment. What was it . I went to the robber unit in downtown at city hall. And that from there i went to the juvenile unit. And then i eventually ended up back downtown on patrol as a supervisor. Okay. And how long did that take . What year are we up to now . I think were at about 2007, 2008. Okay. And after that . I was there full time and then went back as a sergeant in charge of the unit. I went back to the street for a year and a half and then i went to the Minneapolis Police departments Gang Enforcement team as a sergeant. And then we from there, i investigated gang crimes, gun crimes. Then after that assignment, north side on patrol for about a year. Year and a half. Then i went back downtown as a sergeant on the Community Response team, the crt team downtown. And then in 2017, i took the exam for the lieutenant and passed and was a lieutenant in 2017. And where were you assigned that as a lieutenant . After i got promoted, i was transferred to the Training Division in charge of use of force. Okay. Id like you to talk to the jury a little bit about your own background in the use of force. Are you familiar with the Minneapolis Police Department Policy regarding the use of force . Yes, sir. I trained for several years with that. The. That was part of your Academy Training . Partially. You know, you get to be familiar with the use of force in the academy. And then after you lift the academy, did you have to take refresher courses which would have included use of force training every year . Yes, sir. In order to maun intain your license . Yes, sir. You have had training beyond that, beyond what was presented at the academy and your yearly certification . Yes, sir. You could please describe it. I was a part time use of force instructor in 2010. I maintained that part time status use of force instructor up until i was promoted to lieutenant where i went to the Training Unit full time. What did you have so to do to be qualified to be a use of force instructor . I went through different courses. Designed to train us up on use of force. I also started training brazilian jiujitsu for the department. As part of our Ground Defense initial ti. Id like to qualify a few terms if we may. We talk about use of force and use of force training. We also hear the term defensive tactics. Can you differentiate between the two . I think theyre interchangeable. I think use of force is the more appropriate term. But i think defensive tactics is more of a term used longer so people tend to refer to use of force instructors as instructors. Would it cli more hands on type instruction . You mentioned brazilian jiujitsu, for example . Yes, sir. Were you interested in brazilian jiujitsu before becoming a Police Officer . How did that develop . No, sir. I was in martial arts through college and then i got interested in it from some of the other use of force instructors kind of recruited me to do that and really fell in love with the art form and really what the implications and uses are for Law Enforcement specifically. Would you please just provide a very high level overview of what brazilian juice jiiujitsu . Its a form of marshal art that focuses on leverage and body control, deemphasizes strikes and true brazilian jiujitsu, there is no strikes. It is using body weight. Kind of like wrestling and joint lock manipulation. Neck restraints. Things that, you know, pain compliance as well as physical body control to get people to comply. So you use that phrase pain compliance, what is that . Pain compliance is using a technique that causes the person using it against to have pain so they comply to your whatever it is youre asking them to do. So if we were using an example maybe from childhood, you familiar with the game mercy . Yes, sir. All right. Where you lock fingers and twist down and somebody has to submit. Similar to that . Yes, sir. All right. Although brazilian jiujitsu is not the only defensive tactic that officers at mpd are trained on, is it . No, sir. Its just one of a variety of different tools that can be employed to deploy force . Is that right . Thats correct. For the purpose of enforcing the law . Correct . Thats correct. As a use of force instructor, you became certified, did you have to become knowledgeable in all the relevant departmental policies and procedures regarding the use of force, the 5300 series . Yes, sir. As well state law governing the use of force which is largely integrated into minneapolis departmental policy, is that right . Yes, sir. And you indicated that you were the lieutenant, lieutenant over in the training center, is that right . Training division, sir. Training division. Please zrdescribe your role the do you think lute in the Training Division. I was in charge of use of force. I was also in charge of the patrol operation of training and the police range. And i was in charge of all of our continuing education to make sure that our officers are fulfilling the mandates to become a Police Officer. And as part of that, make sure that youre properly reporting to the post and you keep records, sign in sheets and what not of particular officers having completed training, is that right . Thats correct. And those training hours are collected and reported into the workforce Director Program . Yes, sir. So you have an accurate record of who has been trained in what . Is that right . Yes, sir. And is it when youre the lieutenant of the Training Division in use of force, are you coordinating preservice and in Service Training . Yes, sir. The preservice side is use of force. The range and patrol operation. The in service side is the post that we have to keep up with. That is the post service side in sfgs. And as lieutenant, obviously, youre in charge of youre in a position of rank over sergeants, is that right . Thats correct. And those are usually the level, the trainers that largely are sergeant level, is that right . Mainly officers with sergeants overseeing. You are familiar with the curriculum that is imparted upon both preservice and in Service Training . Yes, sir. You help develop the curriculum . Yes, sir. And do you approve the contra curriculum . Yes, sir. The curriculum does include just a general booklet that is put together by the defensive tactics instructors, is that right . Yes, sir. And that booklet contains the general concepts for use of force that are imparted on preService Trainings and in Service Trainings . Thats correct. If i can show exhibit 126 just to the witness. Showing what you is marked for identification as exhibit 126, Minneapolis Police department use of force manual academics and techniques produced by the mpd defensive tactics team. Are you familiar with this document and the predecessor documents . Yes, sir. Does this document contain sort of the general curriculum and knowledge that is imparted upon mpd preservice and in Service Trainings . Yes, sir. Offer exhibit 126. No objection. 126 is received. And we wont public that at this point. And do you also participate in and approve various classroom power point training sessions that are imparted upon both preservice and in Service Trainings . Yes, sir. And at this time, just to the witness, i would like to show what is marked for identification as exhibit 119. Exhibit 119 is a slide deck that is labelled 2018 defensive tactics in service. Is that right . Yes, sir. If you could show the witness the second page. Do you see your name on the slide deck listed at the top of the instructors . Yes, sir. You are familiar with the contents of this particular power point presentation or slide deck . Yes, sir. Did you help create it . Yes, sir. And you improved its use during the training, is that right . Thats correct. And its listed as a fall of 2018. So this is what would have been provided for in Service Training. Experienced performing officers during this 2018 session, correct . Thats correct. And is the training that is provided and the minneapolis Police Officers that have to go through the training, right . Yes, sir. So theyre not all taking it at the same time . Thats correct. But if someone is has completed the fall 2018 in Service Defensive Tactics training, does that mean that they saw the slide deck . Yes, sir. Ill offer exhibit 119. No objection. 119 is received. And we talked about Training Records as well and sign in sheets. Id like to show the witness exhibit 124. Exhibit 124 is labelled in service Training Program group b. Is that right . Yes, sir. And i see your name at the top as one of the instructors. Is that right . Thats correct. This is a sign in sheet that would show different officers who signed in having taken the training . Thats correct. Turn to page 2. Do you see the name Derek Chauvin on this training roster . Yes, sir. Are you familiar with that name, Derek Chauvin . It. Yes, sir. Chauvin, im sorry. Derek chauvin. Would you recognize mr. Chauvin if you saw huhim in the courtro today . Yes, sir. Do you see him . Yes, sir. Will you point to him and describe what he is wearing . A dark blue tie, light blue shirt and gray jacket. May the record reflect the witness identified the defendant. Go back to page one. And at this time i will offer exhibit 124. No objection. 124 is received. Permission to publish 124. If you can highlight the instructor block and title. All right. Again, you see that this is the 2018, this training was provided on october 1, 2018 . Is that right . Yes, sir. And you are listed as one of the trainers, correct . Thats correct. And if you can go to page 2. Highlight please. And there you can see the training was attended by the defendant. Is that correct . Yes, sir. How many times do you think you provided Training Like what we saw in the exhibit to various officers over the years . Hundreds of times, sir. And is this a slide deck that you identified adds being the 2018 version fairly consistent with prior versions of the use of force training you provided . The documentation sir . Yes. So when do you use of force training and two components, right, there is a classroom component and then there is more of the tactical component. Practical exercises. Thats correct. And what we saw in the exhibit was the classroom component. I believe so. Okay. What id like to do now is publish exhibit 119. And just like youve done 100 times before, im going to have you explain some of the selected slides to the jury. All right . Yes, sir. All right. Please turn to page two. 119. And again, you can see your name listed on this in Service Training as one of the instructors. Is that right . Yes, sir. And turn to page four. Page four of this slide deck contains a policy reference. Is that right . Yes, sir, it does. You testified that youre familiar with the policies, use of force policies. The one of objectives of training is to impart the policies. Teach those policies to the attending officers. Yes, sir. And so this is from the minneapolis policy man youll 5301. Can you describe to the jury what this slide is intended to convey . Yes, sir. Theres looks like there are three pull let points. First is life and protection of public. That is the corner stone of our use of force policy. And also clear and Consistent Force policies. We like the policies to be easily understood. And then use of force standards do fall under the reasonableness standard. Since were talking about use of force, id like to turn to page 7 of the exhibit. 119. We talk about use of force. Explain to the jury what is force. Its listed on this slide here. Intentional police contact. Involving any weapons, substance, vehicle, equipment tool device or animal that inflicts pain or injury to another, physical strikes to the body. Physical contact to the body that inflicts pain or injury or restraint or circumstance likely to produce injury. So you train officers that restraint is a form of force, is that right . Yes, sir. And when applying force or applying restraint, the restraint has to be reasonable, correct . Correct. And it has to be reasat the it starts and stops . Correct. You are familiar with the concept proportion alt . Yes, sir. If you can turn to the exhibit page 8. And discuss proportionality to trainees, you use this exhibit, is that right . Yes, sir. In general, without using the slide for a moment, just explain to the jury as you would a group of trainings. What is proportional force . You want to use the least amount of force necessary to meet your objectives, to control. And if those lower uses of force do not work, would not work or to unsafe to try, then you increase the level of force against that person. Do not work, would not work, or unsafe to try. Sounds like you used that phrase a time or two . Yes, sir. Is that a phrase you use in every training that youve given use of force . When theres a power point or talk about use of force, we discuss this regularly. Okay. You said that you want to use least amount of force as necessary . Yes, sir. Why is that . Because if you can use the least amount of lower level of force to meet your objectives, its safer and better for everybody involved. And when we talk about proportional to what . Id say the level of resistance youre getting. And the level of resistance would be dependent upon who . The subject that youre using force upon. The specific subject . Yes, sir. All right. Now at this time im going to ask to publish exhibit 110. And this is an item thats been received into evidence. Do you recognize exhibit 110 . Yes, sir. What is that . Its technically called defense and control response training guide. A lot think it is a use of force con continuum. We were discussing the concept of proportionality. You talked about subject behavior. Is that right . Yes. Subject behavior is over here on the left hand side, correct . Thats correct. And the subject behavior can vary from i guess nothing, passive resistance all wait to active aggression, correct . Yes, sir. And then in terms of proportionality, there are various tools that have available to a Law Enforcement officer based on the subject behavior, correct . Thats correct. And some of the tools if, we can take an example with active aggression, one response could be, what . Up to and including deadly force. But then for lower levels of subject activity such as passive resistance, right, that could include things like presence and verbalization . Thats correct. All right. And is this something that you use with Law Enforcement officers you train to graphically represent the concept of proportionatity. Im not sure if we use this specifically but we have used this in the past to describe as levels of resistance increase that officers response and also increases. Okay. And similarly, as levels of resistance decrease, what should the officer do . You should deescalate use of force as well. That is in this response and control guide, isnt it . Correct. If you would clear that, your honor. Even and youd indicated that you train officers that they should use the least amount of force that is available or that is reasonable under the circumstances. Is that right . To meet the objectives, yes. Explain that. So you want to use the least amount of force if youre trying to control somebody, might be a lower level force f youre trying to get them in handcuffs and theyre fighting. So you want to use the lowest level of force possible to meet the objectives. And lower levels of force, fair to say, when you use force, people can get hurt. Yes, sir. The subject can get hurt. The officer can get hurt . Yes, sir. Is that one of the reasons why its better to use lesser amount of force . Yes, sir. And another reason is that its required. Is that right . Yes, sir. If you can go back to exhibit 119 and publish page 12. And you train this to officers, is that right . Yes, sir. The minnesota statutes provide and this cynt greated into the mpd policy, the concept of minimum restraint. Is that right . Thats correct. And id ask you, if you can please highlight the first section. Im sorry. The second section. All right. What is the policy and statute provide regarding the amount of restraint that can be used on an arrested subject . The first line talks about the officer making the arrest and not subject the person arrested to any more restraint than is necessary for the arrest in detention. What does that mean . Means the minimum amount of force that you need to accomplish the objective of arresting a detaining somebody is what you should use. Now youre familiar with the circumstances that bring you here today. Is that right . Yes, sir. And i need to show you a photo thats been received into evidence. Its exhibit 17. Id like to publish that. You see exhibit 17 and you see the defendant on top of a subject that you know to be george floyd. Is that right . Yes, sir. Is this a use of force . Yes, sir. If you can take that down, please. I want you to discuss in terms of using force and using it safely. What you teach your trainees about sort of the frailty of the human body. Its important to be careful with people. Is that right . Oh, yes. Very important to be careful. And there is some parts of the body that are more prone to injury than others, correct . Thats correct. And you train on that. Is that right . Yes, sir. And if we could display exhibit 119, page 49. Now this is from strength training. Thats right. Is it generally helpful in describing the more sensitive parts of the human body are as you train minneapolis Police Officers . Related to strikes . Yes. Could it be related to other types of restraint as well . I think can you stretch that some. I dont exactly know how what is the question exactly again . Is it fair to say that the areas that are marked in red, the red zones, are more prone to injury than other parts of the body . That could be serious . Yes. So, for example, the neck . Yes. And the head . Correct. And the sternum of the chest. Is that right . Yes, sir. And this wouldnt just pertain to strikes. It could also pertain to pressure, couldnt it . Yes. Is that something you probably knew before you even did any use of force training . Yes, sir. Id like you to then discuss with the jury the concept of neck restraints. And if we can public page 52 of the exhibit. And looking at the time period that you were doing this training, neck restraints were authorized by mpd policy, correct . Yes, sir. Can you please describe the training that you provided to minneapolis Police Officers regarding the use of neck restraints . Yes, sir. We go over the techniques, definitions of neck restraints and we go through different reps of the neck retrstraint to get e officers comfortable in doing it. Can you give the jury an overview of what a neck restraint is . Yes. It is constricting the sides of a persons neck and they refer to it as a neck restraint. To youre slowing the blood flow to and from the brain with the intent to gain control of a subject. And there are two different types of neck restraints in the mpd policy, is that correct . Yes, sir. And those are what . The two levels are conscious neck restraint. So that means you wrapped somebody up and theyre still conscious. And can you gain compliance with many people with that. And then there is unconscious and thats applying pressure until the person when theyre not plig, you put enough pressure that they become unconscious and therefore compliant. How does one actually apply a neck restraint . We teach a couple different techniques. But the basic idea is you use your elbow as a landmark and place your arm across so your bicep, again, one side of the neck and arm is on the other side of the neck and then there is a couple different hand placements but then you apply pressure with head pressure on both sides of the neck to gain compliance. And you were demonstrating. Were you using your arms to do that . Thats correct. And it is also done with a leg . Kiit can be done with the le. Does mpd show how to do it with the leg . We show the younger officers but we dont train leg neck restraints from the officers in the service. As far as my knowledge, we never have. How would a trained neck restrain work . Sorry, how would a trained leg neck restraint work . People that watch mma, so professional fighters, they call it the triangle choke. And i use that term choke loosely. Thats when you place your leg over somebodys back, cross their side of their neck and trap their arm so the person ends up having one arm in and their arm causes pressure on one side and the leg causes pressure on the second and you can actually render somebody unconscious if you hold it long nufr. What part of the leg . Usually the inner thigh. Inner thigh. So in this scenario, using a leg to do a neck restraint with the knee sort of replace the elbow in terms of placement . How would you describe it sfwh. I would say that the knee doesnt really replace the elbow. Your thigh would be across the side of somebodys neck, leg across the back. You protect the airway really with the space that is created with the arm being pinned. If you could please display the next page, page 53. Use of neck restraints. Can you describe in using the concepts of proportionality when authorized to use a neck restraint of the two different varieties. Yes, sir. On subjects actively aggressive which means assaultive. Theyre actively resisting and other techniques have not worked. You can use it then. And then the bottom says you cant use it geagainst subjects that are passively resistant. Can you go to the next slide, page 54 . Okay. And after a neck restraint have to be followed, is that right . Thats correct. For the care of the individual upon whom the neck restraint was applied . Yes, sir. If we could publish exhibit 110 again, and bringing this specific topic back to the concept of proportionality. Could you enlarge this, please . Do you have a stylus up there . Yes, i do. You can touch the screen and make a mark here. Unconscious neck restraint. An unconscious neck restraint is when the person would actually be rendered unconscious. Correct . Thats correct. And intentionally so . Yes, sir. Could you please underline unconscious neck restraint as you see it in this response and control guide . Yes, sir. And what subject activity, what level of subject activity would be required to use an unconscious neck restraint . Well, according to this chart its in the red area so it would be active aggression. And do you agree with that . Yeah. I think i know the last slide we talked about active resistance if other techniques didnt work but definitely active aggression is where its placed. If we look, then, you can also find a conscious neck restraint. Thats the neck restraint thats used for the purpose of control. Correct . Correct. Could you underline where that is in this forced continuum, exhibit 110. And so the conscious neck restraint is authorized in circumstances where theres, in fact, active resistance. Is that right . Yes, sir. So then if there was Something Like passive resistance, the conscious near the conscious neck restraint nor the unconscious neck restraint would be authorized. Is that right . Would not be authorized . Would not be authorized. That is correct. And an unconscious neck restraint would not even be authorized for some forms of active resistance, would it . Thats correct. And if the subject is offering no resistance obviously then no neck restraint would be authorized . Thats correct. Or any restraint . Of any or any restraint if theres no generally, no. Okay. In addition to the classroom training you actually teach officer, show them physically how to do these sort of neck restraints . Yes, sir. At this time id like to republish exhibit 17. Sir, is this an mpd trained neck restraint . No, sir. Has it ever been . Not to my neck restraint, no, sir. Is this an mpd authorized restraint technique . Knee on the neck would be something that does happen in use of force. That isnt unauthorized . Under what circumstances would that be authorized . How long can you do that . I dont know if theres a t time frame. It would depend upon the circumstance at the time. Which would include what . The type of resistance youre getting. For example the subject was under control and handcuffed would this be authorized . I would say no. You can take that down, please. Continuing in this defensive tactics presentation, if you could go back to exhibit 119, page 56. You also teach officers the proper handcuffing and techniques. Is that right . Yes, sir. And according to the handcuffing techniques, the handcuff to be handcuffed behind the back and the handcuff is to be double locked. Your honor, could we have a side bar . Sure. Im john king in washington, youre watching a quick side bar conversation here during testimony in the Derek Chauvin trial. The prosecution is questioning lieutenant johnny mercel, a Training Officer at the academy. Very compelling testimony, they showed the photo of then officer chauvin kneeling on the neck of george floyd and the lieutenant said no, that was not authorized, especially in these cases right here. The lawyer having a side bar with the judge. Lets bring in our analysts who have been watching throughout. Laura coates, and Charles Ramsey also with us. Laura, the testimony just moments ago from lieutenant mercel, when they showed the picture of officer chauvin kneeling there hold on, just theyre going to take a break in the court right now. The judge has Just Announced the morning break, and the court so laura coates, lieutenant mercel was the Training Officer, he went through the regimen, and right in the end, when they brought up the very disturbing photo seen around the world of officer chauvin kneeling on the neck of george floyd, the prosecutor asked quite simply, is that authorized in your view, under the circumstances, and the answer was no. And not quite the emphatic one. But the idea here was that it had the same gravitas. There is a continuum of force, hes trained on use of force and hes supposed to ease the least amount of force necessary to control your suspect, the least amount of force necessary. Its by policy, its by training, its by statute. We saw all of those things. Then we go to the idea of, well, how about neck restraints . Its kind of in the lingering question for jurors here and the audience worldwide about why would this officer go so rogue . You mean to tell me no ones ever trained about the process of using a neck restraint . Well, he goes through it, methodically, talking about this idea of what types of restraints you can use, when theyre appropriate, still looking to that notion of the least amount of force that needs to be used here. And as he brought us along this journey of how training operates we come to this conclusion that i think is a very, very strong one, and very, very compelling, that not only do you not use any neck restraints, theyre not authorized, he said, if the person is not resisting, is under control, and is in handcuffs. What have we seen through the video . That george floyd at the time, that the neck restraint was applied, was in control, handcuffed, not resisting. It counters that exact Defense Strategy there and then he concluded, as you said, john, the idea here that it has not even not only not authorized, it hasnt even been trained to do so. This is extraordinarily compelling testimony from somebody who actually is the person to train officers like and specifically Derek Chauvin, we saw that he actually signed a form there, he had not only heard about the training, he had attended the training. Chief, to that point, people who watch tv courtroom shows, they tend to be more dramatic but i think one of the ways the prosecutors here have been so effective is their very calm, methodical approach, and using the slide from the training that showed the red area, which is if your suspect, or your subject is actively resisting, then yes, officers then have to consider more aggressive use of force, including if youre if the suspect is fighting, resisting, trying to get away. Possibly using a neck restraint. But that what was compelling was to go through the training slides and then hear lieutenant mercel say when they showed the dramatic photograph that under those circumstances george floyd is prone, he is handcuffed. We do know as laura pointed out from the video, that was not in the moment, that he had been so for more than nine minutes and that then the testimony is that, sir, necessary, do you train that . Very powerfully saying no. No, listen, this is very damaging testimony for the defense. I mean, earlier we were talking about the critical decisionmaking model, which actually supplements the use of force continuum as its called. When you see the continuum, depending on the actions of the offender, the use of force changes, obviously. It can escalate all the way up to and including deadly force but theres also a part of it that deescalates, as the resistance and as the behavior of the individual changes, so should your use of force. And so you want to try to use the lowest level to begin with, only that force necessary to affect an arrest, if you do have to use a higher level of force as soon as you have a person under control, as soon as the resistance lessens, so should your force. And thats thats a hurdle that the defense is not going to be able to overcome. It is what it is as they say, and you here you have the trainer, the person who actually oversees it, and from his history in the department, the units hes worked in, this is a guy thats got a lot of experience, believe me. So hes very credible. And that laura, i think walk through as a prosecutor what youre looking to get out of a witness like this, at this very delicate moment in the sense that not only did lieutenant mercel testify hes not trained to do that he actually specifically said hes trained not to do that, hes actually trained, once you get the suspect under control, deescalate, back off. This is so important because think about the psychology of jurors, one of the reasons that you have the voir dire questions that talk about the amount of weight you would give to an officer testifying or the benefit of the doubt that we know that people extend to officers, nobody believes that a peace officer gets up in the morning, puts on his or her uniform and goes out with a badge with the intent to kill someone unjustifiably. That psychology is top of mind for prosecutors to help the jurors feel comfortable about whatever verdict they render. This is not a Police Officer that theyre trying to attack. This is somebody who was only a cop in name. Having the continuous testimony from different Law Enforcement perspectives to say this is not what we do, he is no longer one of our own. At the tim