Give them to keep moving toward a Nuclear Weapon . We would argue none in fact especially when theyre Holding Americans hostage. Congressman randy weber, thank you so much for taking the time today. Were thinking about those families here at home. I know they want their loved ones back. Thank you. Our prayers are with them. Thank you, brooke. Yes, sir. Top of the hour. Youre watching cnn. Breaking news im brooke baldwin. Major developments in a story that brings together really two of the biggest story lines thus far this year. Terrorism and police shootings. This dragnet now widens this a terror case thats left one suspect dead in boston. Now a second suspect has been arrested. David wright is supposed to be in federal court right now. We may also learn at this upcoming hearing how wrooigight who was arrested tuesday, knew the man who was killed at this scene here earlier that month. His brother says is police shot 26yearold usaama rahim in the back but today leaders of both the black and the muslim communities are in boston and seem to support much of the version of events as told to us by police and fbi. The Police Commissioner boston says rahim came at officers with a large knife. A boston officer and fbi agent fired, killing rahim. In a show of transparency 24 hours later basically, authorities showed this video of this confrontation from this sort of distant Surveillance Video to these leaders in boston. One of those boston area leaders spoke with me just last hour. I think today was a terrific step. Heres what we saw. Number one, it was not at a bus stop. Number two, the mr. Rahim was advancing at one point towards the officer. Number three, he was not shot in the back. The video is from a distance so Everything Else is fairly inconclusive. Could you see the weapon . Could you see him holding this as authorities describe this large militarystyle knife, approaching Law Enforcement . You know myself unfortunately, because the video is from quite a distance i could not see it. Most of the leaders in the room could not see that. Lets go to cnn justice correspondent pamela brown. Shes in boston outside of where this hearing will be taking place with this second suspect. Do we know pam, how this suspect knew the man who was killed knew usaama rahim . Were hoping to learn more brooke when he appears in court. We know from the u. S. Attorneys office that the documents havent been filed yet. Theres still a lot of questions about what his relationship was to the suspect who was killed yesterday. But im being told from Law Enforcement sources that this relationship between the two was more than just an online relationship. There was more to it. Of course there is a third person Law Enforcement is looking at whos not been arrested. Authorities raided his home last night. Were learning a little bit more about the concern among Law Enforcement. We know that the suspect who was killed he had been under 24 7 surveillance by Law Enforcement. They were very concerned about him and were being told he had discussed several plots. One, according to my colleague, included beheadings. The other they talked about attacking Police Officers. My colleagues say that it didnt appear that there was any viable plot that they were about to do or anything operational. I will tell you from talking to Law Enforcement officials, they were concerned about the suspect that was killed yesterday and the fact he was under 24 7 surveillance really tells you something. They didnt know what would trigger him at any moment. Thats what were being told. Again, hoping to learn more about who david wright is and what his relationship specifically was with the suspect who was killed. Brooke . Hold on. Quickly, pamela, because im listening to you and jotting down notes. So potentially plotting to attack police no operational plot. You mentioned the beheading. Beheading of whom . We dont know. What were being told and what my colleagues are being told that it doesnt appear that there was a specific viable plot to behead Police Officers but they had talked about beheadings. Separately it talked about another plot to attack Police Officers. I think thats key. At this point, were being told from Law Enforcement officials that there wasnt anything operational but that they were very concerned about the suspect that was killed and about his associate, david wright. So we are hoping to learn more about what exactly was in the works, brooke. Got it. Pamela brown, thank you so much. Well keep in close contact with you as this hearing is about to get under way. Lets broaden out the discussion. Lets bring in cnn political commentator buck sexton. Also with me retired Lieutenant Colonel scott mann whos with the army special forces. Welcome to both of you. Buck let me begin with you here. Listening to pamela really the headline that jumped out at me we knew there were interests, a plot to target Police Officers perhaps government officials. Also reports that he the man who was killed and the other two associates were radicalized by isis or other extremist elements. Listening to these different threats, how do you read that . Based upon similar cases weve seen in the past i think the assumption here would be there was some radicalization that occurred online. We know that isis has put out a call. This was earlier in the year to attack officers. Specifically. So isis is saying pick your own target dont wait for us to tell you. If you want to take part in your own personal jihad here on american soil or anywhere in the world, you can do that. Attack cops Law Enforcement personnel, military personnel, government personnel. Thats already out there. On the issue of the surveillance and the operational nature of this or where it was on that scale, the fact they have them under 24 7 surveillance 24 7 surveillance. This is rare. This is unusual. This would only happen if it was an imminent threat a very serious threat if they were worried about a transition from just ideological jihadization into an operational phase. These officers may not have had a warning of exactly when it was going to happen beyond the date of tuesday, but were talking about somebody whos saying he wants to behead police. He has a large knife on him. If he wants to take that next step theres not a lot of plotting that has to go into this. If he decides to attack an officer with that knife, we could have a fatality. Let me play some sound. Police radio traffic shows they knew something could happen as they were approaching this man yesterday morning. This is a conversation between an officer and dispatch. Roll it. So buck, just staying with you, when theyre saying thinking about taking him, presumably meaning arresting. That would be the assumption. They also, of course, could just go up and speak to the individual. Law enforcement is allowed to do that. Look, we want to talk to you. This happens a lot in counterradicalization efforts, when they know somebody has said something concerning on social media. We dont know what the charges are yet. They could have performed an arrest then and there. 20 feet away if you dont have your weapon drawn and somebody has an edged weapon youre in the danger zone. He can get that knife and attack before a lot of people could draw their firearm. Colonel, as weve been reporting on a number of westerners most of them are quite young, inspired by the isis brand, for example. So you were saying there is a growing body of evidence showing westerners breaking with their home societies to wage jihad against perceived threats to their faith. What do you mean by that . Yeah i mean this is something, brooke its good to see ive talked a lot about in my book game changers, which is we dont pay a lot of attention to the strategic narrative that isis groups are telling people around the world particularly lyly lyly young folks who are struggling with honor and identity. Theyre able to tie this narrative to young folks and really mobilize them to do their bidding in ways that dont require a lot of training. Look at the reporter a few minutes ago talking about them being close to operational. With this kind of attack it doesnt take much to get operational. A welltold story that mobilizes folks online to strike out is becoming more and more common. I think were going to see more of it right here in the u. S. What about buck let me circle back to you on the notion that not even 24 hours later, police and fbi showed the Surveillance Video to members of the black and muslim communities in boston just for the sake of transparency. That was quick. I think that what we see here is Law Enforcement recognizing theres a messaging that needs to happen when theres a fatal incident involving anyone and police that they shouldnt allow false narratives to get out there and allow people to think this was an execution. The facts need to get out quickly because it can take a lot more time to dispel a false narrative. Colonel mann you said the bush and obama administrations have really failed to change the perceptions of america from what elsewhere in the world, specifically what middle east . Well i just watching this war and participating in it for the last 14 years, my sense has been that we really failed to acknowledge and deal with our enemy strategically. With the narrative and the strategic aim points they have out there. Weve tried to come out at top down. We havent worked bottom up in the tribal and clan societies. Weve really ignored this issue of narrative and how these extremist groups are able to tell a story around the world that mobilizes people to action. Now were starting to move on beyond these spectacular attacks, and youre starting to see folks with a little bit of inspiration selfselect to go after Police Officers after military members, and again all of this is designed to draw us deeper into the fight. So weve got to start paying attention to this and, no Neither Administration has paid enough attention to narrative and story. Buck bigger question and i know you dont have all the answers, but whats one way to counter that . Well a way to counter this is to obviously try to make sure that the voices within the islamic world who are decrying jihad and speaking about how this radicalization happens and the reasons why it is in fact outside of the faith, those are voices we need to hold up. Do the young people care . Do they get them . Radicalization has been going on for a long time. Lone wolf attacks are nothing new. Youre not going to have perfect security or counterradicalization efforts, but they need to continue on. Otherwise, well see more of these. The frequency of these attacks with the islamic state, with its call around the world, specifically to attack the west and america, well see more of these things. Its very corrosive if you have even a small attack that doesnt have any casualties or fatality fatalities associated with it. Theres a distrust a corrosive effect in society we want to counter. Its a constant messages effort. Buck sexton thank you. Scott mann thank you. Appreciate it. Still ahead, rescue crews racing all ourshours of the day, now cutting a whole in this capsized crew ship desperately trying to rescue anyone that could still be alive. Will it work . Well talk to a rescue diver next. Also after decades of falling crime rates in new york city a look at whats behind the sudden spike in shootings that has some calling for a return of stop and frisk. Woulds that be the solution . And chilling words inside this courtroom from james holmes. The suspected gunman in the Aurora Movie Theater shooting has taped sessions with a psychiatrist played out here in court. Also who he called moments before walking into that Movie Theater. Do not miss this. Youre watching cnn. We got the new tempurflex and its got the spring and bounce of a traditional mattress. You sink into it but you can still move around. Now that i have a tempurflex, i can finally get a good nights sleep. vo change your sleep. Change your life. Change to tempurpedic. For the millions of americans suffering from ringing in their ears, theres no such thing as quiet time. But you can quiet the ringing with lipoflavonoid, the numberone doctorrecommended brand. Relieve the ringing with lipoflavonoid. You total your brand new car. Nobodys hurt,but there will still be pain. It comes when your Insurance Company says theyll only pay threequarters of what it takes to replace it. What are you supposed to do, drive threequarters of a car . Now if you had a Liberty Mutual new car replacement, youd get your whole car back. I guess they dont want you driving around on three wheels. Smart. New car replacement is just one of the features that come standard with a base Liberty Mutual policy. And for drivers with accident forgivness,rates wont go up due to your first accident. Learn more by calling switch to Liberty Mutual and you can save up to 423. For a free quote today,call Liberty Mutual insurance at see Car Insurance in a whole new light. Liberty mutual insurance. Trapped in air pockets beneath the hull of a capsized ship, another survivor pulled from this chinese ferry, giving hope to families of other passengers that some may still be alive. Translator i have gone beyond the sadness. I am preparing for the worst while Still Holding on to hope. Translator one thing i want to do the most is to see my mom. The clock ticking. Right now desperate rescue crews cutting a hole in the upturned hull. Joining me now, jack garcia senior rescue diver with miamidades fire rescue operations. Welcome to you. You did this for 33 years. The idea of cutting this hole in the ship k can you tell me how theyll do that and why and what theyre thinking theyll find . First of all, thank you for having me on brooke. Basically what theyre trying to do is gain access to areas of the hull that are inaccessible from any other way. Weve done it on a smaller scale here on vessels that were on fire and affected rescues. But this is what we call in the rescue business a mass casualty incident which is difficult at best because of the number of people and the fact its under water or in a capsized situation makes it just that more difficult to do. I cant think of anything more dangerous for those rescuers to be doing. You know when you think about the timeline of all of this and the fact that they found a survivor overnight if someone is alive right now, how is that possible . Because even if you find an air pocket, right, and you cling to that how long can you possibly survive . Well thats just it. It depends on the size of the air pocket and how many people are breathing up the air in that air pocket and whether the air pocket is being replenished with other air from other areas of the hull that might be finding its way up in there. There definitely is a window but that window is closing rapidly. You have to if that were to happen here in the states we would be racing towards that window and making sure that our efforts continued until we were sure there was no one else alive in the hull. I was talking to someone yesterday before we knew theyd be cutting a hole in the hull. She was saying that they could raise the ship pump a bunch of air into the ship raise it perhaps help anyone in those air pockets. Do you think that would be something that could be viable now, and why would that be helpful . It would be extremely difficult to do. I dont see why . Its a huge ship. Because of the number of air bags and stuff you would need. I could see that maybe happening with barges and cranes and heavy equipment, but the window is closing very quickly. The best chance those people have is to be pulled out by divers and searching the hull. I dont know how many how effective the rescue thats going on how many divers are involved and any of those details, but in my mind, the quickest way to get those people out there is to go in and get them. So tragic because its mostly elderly on board this cruise. This was along the river. This was supposed to be this incredible trip of a lifetime for so many of them. Jack garcia senior rescue diver with miamidade fire rescue marine operations. Thank you so much sir. I appreciate it. Youre welcome. Thank you. When we come back we have some breaking news now out of cleveland involving the investigation into the shooting death of tamir rice. You remember this video. 12 years of age. He was shot and killed by police while holding a fake gun. Major developments after this quick break. The pursuit of healthier. It begins from the second were born. After all, healthier doesnt happen all by itself. It needs to be earned. Every day. Using wellness to keep away illness. And believing that a single life can be made better by millions of others. Healthier takes somebody who can power modern health care. By connecting every single part of it. For as the world keeps on searching for healthier. Were here to make healthier happen. Optum. Healthier is here. Its so shiny. I know, mommy, but its time to let the new kitchen get some sleep. If you want beautiful results, you know where to go angies list. Now everyone can get highly rated service even without a membership. You can shop special offers or just tell us what you need and well help you find a local company to take care of it. Angies list is there for all your projects, big and small. Pretty. Come see what the new angies list can do for you. dad i wear a dozen different hats doing small gigs, side gigs. Gig gigs. Quickbooks selfemployed helps me get ready for tax time. To separate expenses, i just swipe. Its the one hat i dont mind wearing. passenger thank you i work for me. And so does quickbooks. It estimates my taxes, so i know how much stays in my pocket. And thats how i own it. vo stay in the flow with quickbooks selfemployed. Start your free, thirtyday trial today at joinselfemployeddotcom. More breaking news on boston. We have Court Documents now on the second suspect in this boston terror case. Hes having his Court Hearing at this very moment. Dub ra deborah is all over this. More on david wright. Yes, this is the affidavit theyre presenting in court right now during this first appearance. David wright is being charged essentially with Material Support and advising the suspect, now dead usaama rahim, to destroy his smartphone and wipe his computer. Heres what were learning from these Court Documents. Usaama rahim purchased three knives from amazon. Com over the last week that he met with this man, david wright and another individual in rhode island at which time they discussed a plot to kill somebody outside of massachusetts, specifically beheading this unnamed person. They joked about, quote, thinking with your head on a chest, which the document says suggested the kind of isis beheading that weve come to see. Now, on may 27th, federal authorities investigated a package from amazon. Com and actually xrayed that package. They found there was a large knife inside the box. On sunday is when the two men went to rhode island. Thats when usaama rahim had said he changed his mind that he was no longer going to behead this unnamed individual. Instead, he was going to go after Police Officers. He was going to kill quote, the boys in blue. That was scheduled, brooke to take place either today or tomorrow. And thats when david wright very early yesterday morning, told rahim, wipe your smartphone, dont bring it to the scene where youre going to go and also destroy the computer. So thats where we are right now. David wright expected to be in court to face these allegations against him. He did waive his miranda rights. Thats how Law Enforcement was able to get this information. But he was not going to behead Police Officers. He have he was going to go after Police Officers. That he had gotten these nooifs in the last week perhaps shed a little light on why they wanted to talk to him. Deborah, thank you. Now breaking news in ohio. The investigation into the shooting death of 12yearold tamir rice is complete. He was shot and killed by officers while he was holding this pellet gun last november in a snowy park near his home. Ive got ryan young following the breaking developments for me right now. So ryan what do we know now . Well brooke, a lot of people are holding their breath on this one, especially in cleveland. We were just there a week ago. Talking to the folks in the neighborhoods, they wanted to watch this case closely. This investigation was turned over to the Sheriffs Office in february so they could do this independent investigation. We know sheriff investigators have been going through all the evidence, watching that videotape that so many people have seen that reaction when the police car rolls up and then the officer opens fire on the 12yearold tamir rice who had that pellet gun. So many people in cleveland wondering what would happen with this investigation. So an independent investigation has been conducted by the Sheriffs Office. Now theyve turned that over to the prosecutor. We believe the prosecutor now will take it to the grand jury. Then those people will decide what will happen next. So many people in that community are holding their breath. In fact theyve talked about if this ever happens in terms of whether or not there will be charges or no charges against the officers theyll try to give Community Members a heads up before it happens so those Community Leaders can go out and meet with the community beforehand because obviously theyre concerned that if it goes one way or another, there could be unrest in the area. Talking to Community Leaders just this afternoon, they say they knew this process was winding down. Now its in the hands of the prosecutors there, trying to figure out and anticipate what will happen next. Got it. Ryan young, thank you so much. Were going to stay on this. Were going to sneak in a quick commercial break. Were going to continue on what could happen now that this investigation is handed over to the prosecutors office. What this could mean. Again, this is one of the biggest stories as far as police shoot in additionings in this last year. Well explore it. Stay here. This is my body of proof. Proof of less joint pain. And clearer skin. This is my body of proof that i can fight Psoriatic Arthritis from the inside out. With humira. Humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage and clear skin in many adults. Doctors have been prescribing humira for nearly 10 years. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. Before treatment, get tested for tb. Tell your doctor if youve been to areas where certain fungal infections are common, and if youve had tb, hepatitis b, are prone to infections, or have flulike symptoms or sores. Dont start humira if you have an infection. Visit humira. Com and talk to your rheumatologist. Humira. This is a body of proof why should over two hundred years of citi history matter to you . Well, because it tells us something powerful about progress that whether times are good or bad, people and their ideas will continue to move the world forward. As long as they have someone to believe in them. Citi financed the transatlantic cable that connected continents. And the panama canal, that made our world a smaller place. We backed the Marshall Plan that helped europe regain its strength. And pioneered the atm, for cash, anytime. For over two centuries weve supported dreams like these, and the people and companies behind them. So why should that matter to you . Because, today, we are still helping progress makers turn their ideas into reality. And the next great idea could be yours. Kentucky we have just learned here that the Cuyahoga CountySheriffs Office in cleveland has now officially handed over the shooting investigation of 12yearold tamir rice. It now sits with the prosecutor. Its up to the prosecutor to determine how to proceed, if he wants to bring charges to these Police Officers. Tamir rice was shot and killed by Police Officers while holding a fake gun at a park near his house. Let me bring in harry hill. Gentlemen, just first on tamir rice before we pivot to something else. Thoughts on whats happening. Im encouraged to see that this had been taken to the prosecutors office. This has been something that people have talked about even a week ago or two weeks ago when the other cleveland case is happening. People say that one is a lot fuzzier. But when we talk about tamir rice this is a kid, 12 years old, officer shows up starts shooting very quickly, calls it in as not a 12yearold but a 20yearold, which makes people think again, do Law Enforcement agents have difficulty reading the situation when black people are involved . So its a hotbutton issue. I dont think were going to have an indictment here at all. The officer did act properly although the fact is their tactics were a little strange. I didnt agree with their tactics here and how they pulled up to that kid and jumped out and started firing right away. I think they should have stopped maybe about 50 feet away and tried to find out if he was going to take a shot at them or whatever. Either way, the officer himself perceived the threat when he got out of the car, fired the shot. This is one of those thing that when a terrible incident like this happens. I had the same type of incident happen with me and a 15yearold kid but i didnt shoot him. He dropped the weapon and it was a toy also. I dont think were going to see an indictment here at all pip dont see any civil Rights Violations against this officer. Well wait to see. We dont know. But thats happening. So well watch for that. Meantime i want to talk about something weve discussed before. Crime is up. Decades of falling crime rates. Suddenly the number of shootings are spiking, murders up almost 20 . Heres the mayor of new york. There has been obviously, an uptick in homicides and shootings. It is something we take very very seriously. Its something were addressing right now. We know for sure that the increase in both murders and shootings has occurred in a small number of precincts and has been primarily because of gang and crewrelated activities. Its not just new york. This is happening around the country. Police chief in st. Louis, we talked about this calling this the ferguson effect. Others in new york are blaming the mayor for stopping the Police Practice of stop and frisk. Thats where i want to begin, harry, with you. Do you think doing away with stop and frisk is the precise reason why crime is up in the city . No but the first thing is stop and frisk has not ended at all. The officers were retrained on how to be able to articulate reasonable suspicion to make a stop. So its still going on. I think the mayors talking about hes going to give the Police Commissioner what he needs, but hes not giving them the 1,000 Police Officers that hes asking for here. What were doing is were putting a temporary patch into some of these precincts where theres a lot of killings going on. Police officers are going to stand out there through the summer maybe, theyre going to say, okay watch the crime come down. All right. Then theyre going to pull them out again and its going to come back up. We need a constant presence in these precincts for crime to really lower, stay low in this city. What do you think, mark . A presence is fine but the presence cant become an occupying force. Thats one of the reasons why its important to have Strong Community relations. I agree with you. Its not just a stop and frisk problem. Stop and frisk is something that doesnt build Healthy Community relations. It doesnt make people want to talk to police or cooperate in helping to solve crimes. It doesnt do any of that. I dont think reinstating stop and frisk is appropriate, even if it were constitutional entirely. The other piece here i think, is figuring out how to get a context where people have access to jobs health care housing, healthy choices. If that happens, this crime also goes down. It is important because weve talked over and over all the numbers out over the weekend about how crime is up sort of in many parts of nationwide but we should be specific. Its not the reason why it is is not the same in each and every city. People are talking about baltimore specifically and how in the wake of the riots and demonstrations you had the cvs looted and people taking drugs. Because of the drugs what People Experts are saying is why the crime is spiking in baltimore. You cant blanket this whole problem. No you cant. Baltimores had a problem for a long time. Theres been a spike in the crime just like these 11 or 12 different cities were talking about. I personally believe its because Police Officers are being handcuffed more than being able to go out there and proactively work against the criminals in the inner city. Thats the whole ferguson Effect People are referring to. I dont think thats the whole reason why crime has spiked at all. But i think a lot of the rhetoric out there has empowered the bad guys. The cops arent going to stop me as much anymore, so maybe i can carry my gun more. I think thats whats happening. I wish cops were handcuffed more when there are unjust killings and shootings. I want to see that in places like ferguson. I want to see bad cops handcuffed. Bad cops, yeah. Exactly. First of all, very few Police Officers are actually tried, convicted, and sentenced for killing civilians. I dont scenario you cant say every time a Police Officer kills somebody a cop has got to go to jail. Thats what your inference is here. Thats not my implication. What im saying is that i dont buy into the narrative that so many cops are getting arrested now that theyre scared to do their job. Cops almost never get arrested and charged. Because they dont do anything wrong. When they do do something wrong, theyre arrested. Youre saying every cop who does something wrong is arrested . I believe so, yes. Youre telling me every cop in america whos done something wrong has been arrested. So youre telling me were just really lucky that the three cops who got caught on tape Police Departments are turning their back every time they think a Police Officer does something wrong. Remember no im not saying that. Im saying sometimes. We had dozens and dozens and dozens of cases every year. For something to get to that requires someone to report it. Police dont report each other. They do report. Not the Police Officers themselves. Right. The people will call us make an allegation. All right. Then internal affairs will investigate it. Thats absurd. It happens. I did it a million times. Im not saying that no one ever how could it be absurd . Im going to tell you. What im calling absurd is this idea that every cop has committed a crime or done something wrong has been punished or investigated for it. Youre making a great leap. Im not making a leap at all. That theres a lot of cops out there committing crimes not getting caught. I dont think hes saying there are a lot of cops out there there might be some. Heres the thing. This year three Police Officers have been charged arrested and charged for killing civilians. Three. To my knowledge, all three have been on videotape. To accept your logic would be to suggest that every cop whos committed a crime, weve just been lucky enough to have a tape of. And those who didnt just happened to be honest. So whenever an officer does something wrong out there, all right, its knot propnot properly investigated. Youre taking what im saying and moving it. Im saying sometimes. Not all the time. Youre going to have to give me those examples. I dont have them. Ill give you an example. In charleston before they found the videotape, they said the officer didnt do anything wrong. The Police Report said one thing. Then we saw the videotape. That was right off the top. Youre asking for an example. Im giving you an example. I agreed with that. You only agreed once you saw the videotape. Before the videotape, you said he didnt do anything wrong. I did not say that. What did to you say . Hang on hang on hang on. Does he have a point . This is something weve talk abouted in some of these cases. So many people take a Police Report as the gods honest truth. I think because of some of these examples its caused, you know americans to peel away the layers and think, wait a minute this may not all be factual. What i always say is we wait for the investigation to be conducted and completed. Thats what i always say when i come on and talk about when a Police Officer is involved in a situation. I did in that situation there. Also the fact that once we saw the video, and i said it straight out this officer should go to jail drn. What im saying is most people arent lucky enough to walk around with a video. But you conduct an investigation. I cant tell you how many cases i would love to have on video, but i never it. So i would conduct an investigation. But heres the thing. A whole burch of folks go to jail without being caught on tape. Police only seem to go to jail when they get caught on videotape. Thats not true. The three times that someone was caught on tape arent the only three times. I locked up plenty of Police Officers when i was in internal affairs when there was no video. But you can conceive more than three officers commit a crime. Why is that even a question . Because you just said. We got to go. We got to go. We went from crime going up to this but i appreciate putting it all out there, as always. Well do this again. Thanks fellas. Next on cnn, what weve learned about james holmes the phone call he made just before he walked into that Movie Theater in aurora colorado and opened fire. Who he called how long he stayed on that phone before he put the phone down. This is fascinating. This is coming up. My name is Jeff Richardson the Vice President of operations here at c. K. Mondavi. To make this fine wine it takes a lot of energy. Pg e is the energy expert. We reached out to pg e to become more efficient. My job is basically to help them achieve their goals around sustainability and really to keep their overhead low. Solar and Energy Efficiency are all core values of pg e. Theyve given us the tools that we need to become more efficient and bottom line save more money. Together, were building a better california. Accused theater shooter james holmes says he picked up the phone and actually called a Mental Health crisis hotline moments before he opened fire in that Movie Theater, killing a dozen people. Holmes says he called while he strapped on body armor and prepped his weapons. Watch this. At what point did you call the Behavioral Health hotline or a hotline of some kind . Like halfway through gearing up. From the car then . Yeah. What led you to make that call . Just one last chance to see if i should turn back or not. I just went to the very front and sat down in one of the chairs then pulled out my phone to make it look like i had a phone call. Im sorry . Pull the out my phone to make it look like i had a phone call. Then went out the exit. Joining me now, gail saltz. Just to hear that halfway through gearing up he has the presence of mind if thats even the accurate way of saying it to call this hotline. We know the rest of the story. Do you think that could have stopped him . You know i dont know if id call it presence of mind as much as i call it a reflection of ambivalence. There was still some doubt as to whether he should as to whether he should continue doing this or not. You dont know from what hes saying whether that has to do with guilt, regret or the knowledge that this is wrong and e is ill. Hes said that for a long time. He knows that hes ill. But it seems unclear as he goes into this in and out of this, how much this is fortified by delusional thought, in other words, why he on the one hand knows hes sick but hes going to do it anyway. And how much it is that he does understand that its wrong but he feels that he wants to anyway. On the will to stop. Apparently he also talked about how he had regrets when he was speaking with the psychologist who treated him before the shootings, he said i wish she had put me on lockdown or locked me up. Again, is that in retrospect . I wouldnt be sitting here responsible for all this facing all this i wish that she had locked me up because he is sick and he knows that hes ill versus an actual thought beforehand. I am really ill, i need to be hospitalized. I cant do it for myself. I wish someone would step in. This is not unusual for someone who has schizophrenia or serious psychiatric illness wanting someone to help them or intervene and on another level, not wanting to be hospitalized, not wanting to take medication. Im just so mindful as i read these details of the families in the courtroom, some of whom have had to leave. You are allowed to cry but not more than that. Hearing him say that he had the opportunity to shoot some of the Police Officers but he didnt want to shoot certain Police Officers who had their backs to him yet we know what he did. Right. Im perplexed. Theres this bizarre separation between empathy or certain situations like shooting someone in the back or shooting children that doesnt seem to fit with what he did overall, which seems to lack empathy, his idea that he also states it was the numbers of people that i could take out essentially because i felt that somehow they had worth and their worth became mine after i killed them. So that sounds delusional, that sounds to make no sense. I think what you have to look at for this is yes, he is ill, clearly he is ill. But he knew what he was doing was wrong. That is where the Legal Definition becomes separate. Most people that commit crimes like this are not mentally ill. But if you are and you know its wrong and you commit the crime anyway, its still punishable. You can be very very ill and still be legally responsible for committing a crime. Even though you have illness. The question is if he was delusional about why he committed this and not understanding it was wrong, that would be due to his Mental Illness and then like say a John Hinckley he should spend his life in a psychiatric facility. Doctor thank you so much for your time. Next days after her big announcement Caitlyn Jenner has more news. Shes starring in a new reality series. My next guest knows exactly what its like to be a transgender woman in hollywood. Her take on all of this in 60 seconds. Caitlyn jenner is ready to live and fully document her life as a woman. And now a new promo clip from her muchanticipated reality series i am kate has been released. Here she is. You go through all the stuff and you start learning kind of the pressure that women are under all the time about their appearance. Put it this way, im the new normal. Joining me now, erica irvin who played the role of amazon eve in American Horror story freak show, the worlds tallest model who came out as transgender 11 years ago. Great having you on. Its erica irvin. Forgive me. Erica. I know exactly who you are. I want to get into your story in just a moment. But first, i want your reaction to the video of Caitlyn Jenner. This is the first time were hearing from her after reading this very lengthy vanity fair article. The first thought that came to my mind was the wheaties box. When i was a kid, i remember bruce jenner as this superman athlete that they promoted as this incredible sports star. And hes now or she is now an american icon. What the American Public is shocked about is the man is gone, the super is still there. The super is still there. Oh yes. Let me talk about you because i understand when you auditioned for this role when you auditioned for amazon eve and the series the show called for men to audition you bound your breast you dressed as a male but the show creator said no no no we want you to be the woman you are. But your family they werent quite as receptive. What was that like coming out to them . Are we talk about the show or my family . Your family please, maam. Okay. My family wasnt as accepting. It was difficult for them. And i have some tension with them right now. And i didnt receive a lot of acceptance from them at first. They told me do not write, do not call youre no longer welcome in our home. When i started coming out, when i started revealing who i was to them. And that created and all these years later . All these years later, i still keep in touch with my brother from time to time. We do communicate. And i have been blessed by having a lot of extended family and friends. Some people in this business and some people in europe. I do travel a lot. And i do have the opportunity and blessed to be a public figure as an actor and an entertainer and have this platform to speak to the publics listening about this comingout of Caitlyn Jenner. Shes a marvelous woman. Shes beautiful and what a comingout, my god. Look at the super there. Its just oozing in super. Its like, bam shes exhausting to look at. Lets talk about your super because i imagine you definitely turn heads in public for your height and who you are. Youre in the spotlight. Caitlyn jenner is in the spotlight. How hard or what are the challenges for Caitlyn Jenner when shes out and about . Well being misgendered, being called sir, people judge you based on how you look. And being passable and presenting the way caitlyn is right now. Shes going to receive less criticism, less violence. Theres this cultural war almost against transgender people. And theres no front line, theres no battlefield. Theres nobody to aim at. Its a rescue mission. And when you have someone of the car star caliber as bruce, now Caitlyn Jenner coming out, it moves the conversation forward, that we are part of you, we come from you. And it costs less to treat this condition than not to. And we have a large gap between where we are and where we need to be. Ive seen a lot of great progress in terms legislatively moving the conversation for the removal of the Health Insurance exclusion out of contracts in california the eeoc including us in the 1964 Civil Rights Act under sex discrimination. And having bruce jenner become Caitlyn Jenner the super is still there. And its obvious. Erika ervin, thank you so much. Thank you. I really appreciate your time. This is a conversation weve been having every day this week. And its an important one to have. Its part of the National Dialogue in the wake of Caitlyn Jenners story. Thank you so much. Thank you. Im brooke baldwin. Thank you so much for being with me. Well see you same time, same place tomorrow. In the meantime, to washington we go. The lead with jake tapper starts right now. A wouldbe terrorist in boston in his own words wanted quote, to go after them, those boys in blew, unquote. Im jake tapper. This is the lead. The national lead. The fbi says they have him on audiotape conspiring to kill cops and that he plan to do it either today or yesterday which is why police were watching him when they shot and killed them. That deadly encounter caught on camera. And the pentagon now admitting a big and potentially deadly blunder. Much worse than initially closed. Suspect shipments of anthrax fedexed to 17 states the District Of Columbia and three co