Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom With Brooke Baldwin 20150330

Uniform burnt. It tells a story by looking at it what he went through in those three minutes. Very traumatic time for the fire service and fire department. We are family brothers and sisters and, as you can see here we rally around each other. Just really admire firefighters. We salute them. This firefighter in particular. A 25yearveteran is in Critical Condition with burns covering 55 to 75 of his body. We continue at the top of the hour im brooke baldwin. Youre watching special live coverage of the downing of flight 9525. I have new information, new revelations to share with you about this copilot Andreas Lubitz Mental Illness, suicidal tendency and injections of Antipsychotic Medication and the toll of his mental state. Revealing he was suicidal long before he got his pilots license, so a couple years, at least, and long before he steered the airbus 320 into the french alps. We dont have any documentation that says regarding his sight, any problems that he might have had or might have assumed to have there isnt any documentation that says that this is caused by an organic illness. You heard the prosecutor say it. Any vision problems were not caused by some kind of physical condition but weve just heard from sources close to this investigation there in europe that these vision problems were psychosomatic. In other words, caused by mental stress. On top of that were getting information about the chilling minutes before the plane went down. The cockpit transcription was leaked by a german newspaper. For ten minutes the captain is heard yelling, for gods sake open the door. Loud metallic bangs on the cockpit door. 90 seconds later, another cockpit alarm goes off. The pilot is heard screaming open the damn door and then sounds that are being interpreted as the planes right wing scrapes a mountaintop. More screams from passengers and then silence. I want to go to karl penhaul here the crash site. I know youve spoke with some of the family members. More traumatic revelations about what their relatives went through on this flight. Can you tell me whats the latest on getting these their loved ones remains off the mountainside . Reporter well i think on that front, brooke theres been a deal of progress here. First, as you know this is treacherous, rugged terrain. And until now, all recovery teams had to go in by helicopter. Theres been high winds and too windy for the helicopters to fly. But now the local mayor, he sent in a backhoe yesterday to carve a track through the mountainside so allterrain vehicles can get through the crash site and take the teams with them. The good news is its 100 yards from completion and only one obstacle to go. By tomorrow morning, it could be that recovery teams are riding to the crash site on allterrain vehicles and that means they can bring the human remains and vital fragments of that plane back much more quickly. Now, in those terms as well, investigators now say that theyve identified 78 remains and some families may not get any remains back because of the speed of that crash. Some of the bodies may have been absolutely pulverized. There is still an amount of human remains lying on that hillside. Again, rescue teams have assured us dont worry about foxes or the wolves in those hills. They have three guards on that site around the clock to make sure none of the human remains are taken away by animals. Another good sign as well today an Israeli Rescue team arrived here on site. An eightman team. They are going to help the french with whatever they need and were expecting two german helicopters to come here in the course of tomorrow. So its an International Effort to try and ensure that this job can get done quickly brooke. Still, stories of these lives lost is so important in all of our coverage. You talked to some of the family members. We have that as i mentioned, later this hour. My thanks to you, karl penhaul, there in france. Back to this investigation where were learning more about the mental state of this 27yearold copilot. Why did he do it . What was the motive and could anything have stopped him . Joining me now is elizabeth cohen, a former ntsb board member and safety expert. Welcome to both of you. Again, it was a french newspaper that reports in 2010 this copilot received antipsychotic injections. Elizabeth, what are antipsychotic injections . Well, they are injections in and the same medicine can be used in a pill form that are meant to work on some one to help someone who has a psychosis. Its where you have delusions and youre hallucinating and you have manic episodes. These are folks who might have bipolar disorder and used on folks with depression and the depression has moved into a psychosis. I want to emphasize, these are very heavyduty drugs. This is not a prozac or antidepressant. Its used for people who have a serious Mental Illness. So what kinds of serious Mental Illnesses . What could fall under a category in which you have to get these sorts of injections . Right. So these kinds of injections are us used for people with manic depression and schizophrenia. Those are two of the big ones. And, again, what youre concerned about with a psychotic patient is to use a laymans word youve lost a grip on reality. You are hearing hallucinations and thinking that they are true you are having delusions and thinking that they are true that they are reality. So john if you have and again, we dont know. This is prior to at least according to this prosecutor this part was prior to him receiving his pilots license, being treated for this kind of depression and also with the antipsychotic injections should one be flying . Well of course someone should not be flying. We need to have a process that allows us to identify that those problems before we give them a pilots license, before we get preemployment the laws should uncover that. But the laws in this country prevent that from happening and what we need to do is develop a process where there is a reporting system for the authorities because the government or some entity to be able to take a look at each individual and say, this person shouldnt be having certain kinds of jobs and put a process in place that can notify employers after they query them and they should not be putting this person on operating equipment. Its been explained to me you know when you fill out this paperwork, i think its online now and youre asked to become a pilot, have you ever been treated for x, y and z and its just checking these boxes and its sort of on your honor system. To your point, obviously there needs to be changes but how do you think pilots would feel about those changes in terms of privacy and their own rights . Well they are going to be having some concerns in terms of how intrusive it becomes. We need to make sure we have pilots sitting at the table and representatives from organizations and work our way through it. I dont know of one pilot that is flying today that would like to see a repeat of this event. So they are reasonable people normally and i think if we put reasonable rules in place, that they will go along with it. But we need to make sure that they have input into it along with the medical professions and the companies and the government to sit down and develop a set of procedures. Right. And elizabeth, this story also got me thinking when you think of pilots and captains and copilots. These are jobs in which youre carrying peoples lives with you. Peoples lives are on the line. What other professions would one have to report a diagnosis like apparently this 27yearold copilot years prior had . You know brooke i dont know that there is a profession where a doctor is required to report to the employer or to authorities. For example, if a bus driver comes to see a psychiatrist and it clearly psychotic, i dont think that that doctor has any legal duty to report that to the employer or to authorities. And, you know as you were just talking about with john you sort of wonder is that the way that it should work . For example, if a child shows up at a pediatricians office not only can they report it they have to report it. If you use that as a model, if a pilot or bus driver or someone in a place of authority who has a job where people could get hurt if they are clearly having problems that would interfere with their ability to execute their job, maybe there should be a system where that doctor has to report. Elizabeth, john, thank you. Next what the pilot saw as he tried to break into this cockpit. Youll see how indestructible these cockpit doors really are. Plus as we learn more about the copilots mental state, do not blame this on depression. A new law in indiana would not protect religion but instead allow discrimination against gays and lesbians. Youre watching cnn. Hat you buy. Thats why your unused talk, text and data never expires with active service. Some major carriers say you can keep your data. But when you read the fine print, your data does expire. Makes you wonder what else youre losing. 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Act now and get this document shredder free a 29 value when you use promo code go. Or go to lifelock. Com go. Try lifelock riskfree for 60 days and get this document shredder free a 29 value when you use promo code go. Thats promo code go. Call now youre watching cnn. Im brooke baldwin. Most of this investigation surrounding Germanwings Flight 5925 has honed in around the copilot and his wish to slam the plane into the french alps. When captain sonderheimer yelled for gods sake open the door, let me bring in justice correspondent pamela brown who is in dusseldorf germany. Lets focus to the captain. Tell me more about him. Reporter yeah. Hes really the unsung hero here. He tried to regain control of the aircraft. Hes 34 years old and his name is Patrick Sonderheimer and has two Young Children in fact, one child in kindergarten. My colleague spoke to his grandmother who was very emotional on the phone, as you can imagine. And she said that he was a loving father and hero. Im devastated his death came so sudden and leaves my whole family in shock. He deserves the german medal of honor for his heroic attempt to break into this cockpit. Really just so sad and tragic brooke. There are no words, right . And you have this copilot which we have to talk about because were learning more and you learned about an issue with his vision today. Reporter right. He had a lot of doctors visits recently and what i heard is that he was having trouble with his vision so he went to the eye doctor thinking there was something physically wrong with him. Turns out the doctor said it was all mental that it was all in his head that he had a psychosomatic disorder and we also were told that he was going to a neuropsychologist and he said he was overly burdened and work and stressed out. Authorities are still saying they dont know what a motive is. They havent found anything in his apartment or from talking to his family and friends and girlfriend and so forth that would indicate he had any other personal problems anything indicating why he would have done the unthinkable, deliberately skrashing this plane into the alps. Its clear he had a history of Mental Health issues as a history before he got his pilots license. Pamela brown in germany, thank you so much. The very safety precaution put in place to protect the flight crew contributed to the tragedy on this particular plane. Cnns Stephanie Elam talks about how strong these cockpit doors are and how its hard to gain access once youve been locked out. Reporter brooke we want to show you the pilots perspective of the door. Obviously heres the door its a slim door its got a peephole so they can look outside and see who is coming down the aisle but theres more to this door. I want to show you more about this door and introduce you to captain ross amer who is going to help us learn more about this door. First of all, how hard is it to destruct this door . Its pretty hard. Its been tested with grenade and it still didnt open. Reporter its a reinforced door. I can tell its heavy when touching it. Tell me about this lock. This is basically a dead bolt. Thats the final thing that you could turn on. Once you have this deadbolt on theres no way anyone can open this door from outside. No matter what . No matter what. How would they get in . This keypad was key to letting a pilot in but there are other parts to it. Yes, there are obviously codes that are issued. Periodically its changed. Theres a 30second delay that he could just get in and after that its locked. So even if you do know the code you still could be locked out, right . You could be locked out, right. So overall when you look at what happened with the germanwings disaster and look at the door do you think that the door operated the way it was supposed to . Exactly. It operated the way it was designed except this time it kept a good guy out. That is so scary. Brooke, back to you. Stephanie elam thank you. Just ahead, an expert says do not blame this plane crash on depression. Shes joining me live to explain that. And a law in indiana is causing much debate. Well debate both sides next on cnn. [clicking sounds] its so shiny. I know mommy. But its time to let the new kitchen get some sleep. If you want to choose wisely choose angies list. With indepth reviews, an exclusive scoring system and real people standing by to help, you can get a finished project that youll love. Pretty. Call, click or download the app for free today. Indiana. Lets talk about what is happening there. The states lawmaker is promising to amend the couldnt verse yell freedom law and you have the republican mayor of indianapolis speaking out in the last hour calling on the legislature to fix the law and make Sexual Orientation in another class. Indiana joined 19 other states to prevent the government from entrud intruding on religious liberty. Indianas new law has raised a new set of concerns that it would legalize discrimination against gays and lesbians. For starters it allows a person even a business to cite religious beliefs as a defense of private disputes even if no arm of the government is involved. Also keep in mind here indiana has no statewide law protecting gays and lesbians from discriminations. So i wanted to hear both sides. Ive got with me Professor Robert katz from the university of law school gentlemen, to both of you, thank you for joining me. Thank you for having me. Robert, let me begin with you just on the law. And i just hit this a moment ago. I want to hear you explain. What is difference about the law in indiana that makes it more objectionable that other religious freedom laws . No one apparently really complained too much then. Well this isnt about the text of the law. Its about the context. First of all, the law was passed a couple of months after the u. S. Court of appeals eliminated the indianas ban on samesex marriage and this law is redone redundant. This law was unnecessary. It was seen as politically valuable in consolation to the religious groups that oppose samesex marriage. So i would say, you know i dont want to quibble with the law itself because we didnt need it in the first place. You create new problems that you didnt anticipate and so here the two problems were the terrible reaction to the image of indiana across the country and also the unintented consequence and protection for gays and lesbians being strengthened in the state of indiana. These are two unintended consequences of the republicans pushing through a law we didnt need in the first place. Okay. Thats your opinion. Russell, i want your opinion. First, i want to get this answer from you. Under this law, would it be legal for an indiana bakery to refuse to bake a wedding cake for a samesex couple for a samesex wedding . This one does not speak to that at all. All it speaks to is that religious freedom is an issue that ought to be brought up in the courts so religious freedoms out to be considered for the law of the common good. Robert is right. This does not differ much from other states. It simply makes clear what the courts have already ruled in other cases. Isnt that something that could happen under the law . Pardon my interruption. Isnt that something that could happen here . Thats akin to saying because there are laws protecting the amish riding horses and buggies on the roads that we no longer have highway laws. All this law states is that the government has to show why it is overriding someones religious free exercises and beliefs and that the government has taken into account the least restrictive way to do that. I dont think i have ever seen a more ignorant response to a law in my life. Let me push you, though on that. And i hear you and there has been obviously a lot of frustration. But heres one key difference and, robert with your legal hat, you can chime in as well. This is to russell because what makes it different in indiana is that Sexual Orientation is not covered under indianas civil rights law and i know when governor pence touched on this, he would not be pursing that. The indiana mayor wants to pass a law to protect all those that live and work in indiana and do so immediately. So would you be willing to change that part of the law . Sexual orientation is not a protected class in many of the states that has but it is in others. It is in others and not at the federal level. This hysterical reaction of lets boycott indiana when were not boycotting other states and not boycotting the united States Government is ridiculous. This is the exact same law that barack obama voted for in illinois and president clinton signed into law at the federal level. But in illinois what i just mentioned, you know not being discredited against gays civil rights issue, that is what makes this so so different. This law does not empower discrimination against anyone. This law simply says the government and the courts need to take into account our religious freedom. That is an important principle of american pluralism. The situation right now with this overreaction its not just that jesus wouldnt recognize this jefferson wouldnt recognize this either. We need to have this open Public Square where were able to come into it with our religious consequences and convictions in tact. Robert back to you. Whether you want to calling it howling at the moon or overreaction this has enlisted an emotional response. This is a political issue. The rhetoric has gotten so totally heated and im wondering, do critics have a fair point when politics is truly and emotions have been injected into both sides of this. So i agree with russell. We have a state constitution with its free exercise clause that is Even Stronger than the federal first amendment. We have a state Supreme Court that interprets indianas exemptions from applicable laws when they are thought to dis discriminate. We asked the state legislature to state in the statute that this protection of religious freedom did not apply to antidiscrimination laws and they declined to make that amendment. We asked the legislature to protect hoosiers and declined to do that. A law that is protective of religious freedom in the first place, we didnt need it and i think its reasonable for lgbt people to feel that this law underprotects them especially because we specifically asked the state legislature to demonstrate their sensitivity to minorities and they said no. So i think its reasonable for gays and lesbians to be concerned, to feel less and fully welcomed. I appreciate those views. Quickly. I would say, moving forward, also its moved beyond the point where we can amendment the statute that we didnt need in the first place. Thats where i was going. There have been calls to amend, calls to fix. I dont know if that will be good enough for some people at this point. Thank you both very much. Next well what i was going to say is okay. Next the copilot accused of taking down flight 9525 suffered from suicidal tendencies and Mental Health problems. My next guest says dont blame depression. That is next. N that needs to be asked is what is it that we can do that is impactful . What the cloud enables is computing to empower cancer researchers. It used to take two weeks to sequence and analyze a genome; with the microsoft cloud we can analyze 100 per day. Whatever i can do to help compute a cure for cancer, thats what id like to do. Look this is the new asian inspired broth bowl from panera bread. Our hero is the soba noodle. mmmm which we pair with fresh spinach ahhh mushrooms yes and chicken raised without antibiotics. very nice then top with a soymiso broth. That noise panera broth bowls should be slurped with gusto yumm to explore further order online or visit your neighborhood panera bread. [ male announcer ] you wouldnt ignore signs of damage in your home. Are you sure youre not ignoring them in your body . Even if youre treating your Crohns Disease or Ulcerative Colitis an occasional flare may be a sign of damaging inflammation. And if you ignore the signs, the more debilitating your symptoms could become. Learn more about the role damaging inflammation may be playing in your symptoms with the expert advice tool at crohnsandcolitis. Com. And then speak with your gastroenterologist. Much attention has been focused on this germanwings copilot Andreas Lubitzs state of mind. Officials are saying he suffered from suicidal tendencies, underwent psychotherapy long before he received his pilots license several years ago. According to the french newspaper, which cnn cannot independently confirm, five years ago this young man received antipsychotic injections while suffering from anxiety and severe depression. But some Mental Health Officials Say this rarely leads someone to commit mass murder. Joining us is a doctor. Nice to have you here. Thank you. A lot to go through. And again, so were clear and on the same page we dont want to speculate. We only know bits and pieces of his health mosaic over the last few years. Let me begin with this. We learned from someone close to the investigation in europe that he had apparently gone to a doctor because he was having vision issues which obviously seeing is important to fly. Doctors told him it was psychosomatic. What does that mean . Well that refers to an interaction between the mind which we call the psyche and the body which we call soma. And a psychosomatic problem occurs between the mind and the body. So a good example would be Something Like blushing. Thats something everyone has experienced. Definitely. When youre embarrassed or uncomfortable, experiencing that kind of emotion, you have a physical response to that where your blood vessels dilate you feel warm blood rushes to your face and you blush. Thats a psychosomatic experience that every single normal person has had. So if he was apparently, according to this source really stressed out overwork somehow that intangible could turn could manifest into a physical into an eye issue . Its a possibility . Its a possibility, sure. Okay. Okay. This french newspaper, as we mentioned and to be clear, this is 2010 before he even became a pilot he had received injections of antipsychotic meds. Why would one have antipsychotic injections . Well as you said its important to remember that this is a speculation because just in general, if youre seeing a patient. If im seeing a patient and i see evidence of psychosis, i will sometimes prescribe an anti psychotic medication. They are also prescribed for other indications at times. For example, for bipolar mania. Rarely they are prescribed for severe anxiety and doctors are allowed to use them for all sorts of offlabel uses including nausea problems associated with chemotherapy and so on. So someone is receiving these injections separate from that we learn he had the suicidal tendencies years ago, if someone has suicidal tendencies but is getting treatment, could that eventually go away . Could suicidal tendencies resolve with treatment . Yes. Absolutely. Thats a major reason that people who are depressed should feel comfortable getting treatment. Which is so important to have you on because my final thought with you is listen a lot of people we all know people who are being treated for depression and just because someone had been through depression several years ago, there are many people with depression who would never in a million years go out and kill 149 other people. That is so true. Depression is very common. 20 to 30 of people will experience a depressive episode in their lifetime and at any given moment about 6 of all western people are currently experiencing a major depressive episode. As you said most of those people would never none of those people will never commit an act like that committed by this copilot. People who are depressed should seek treatment because treatment is available and is helpful and depression is wrongly stigmatized. Doctor thank you so much. Youre welcome. I appreciate you. Thank you. Next here on cnn, families of the plane Crash Victims pay tribute there at the site. One woman says her brother is now the king of the alps. Well share some of these stories with you. Youre watching cnn. This is my body of proof. Proof of less joint pain. And clearer skin. This is my body of proof that i can fight Psoriatic Arthritis from the inside out. With humira. Humira works by targeting and helping to block a specific source of inflammation that contributes to both joint and skin symptoms. Its proven to help relieve pain, stop further joint damage and clear skin in many adults. Doctors have been prescribing humira for nearly 10 years. Humira can lower your ability to fight infections, including tuberculosis. Serious, sometimes fatal infections and cancers including lymphoma have happened, as have blood, liver and nervous system problems, serious allergic reactions and new or worsening heart failure. 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Teams on the ground have now identified 78 bodies and the recovery could be complete by the end of this week. We have also just learned that a path is being cleared to the crash site and its close to being complete. Meanwhile, the families. These families continue to gather at the base of the mountain waiting and mourning. Cnns karl penhaul spoke with one family who says they are trying to find solace in the scenery. Reporter a father grieves. A mother and a sister wonder why. Milad was a sports journalist from iran. Tamashid, he was big brother. He said to one of his friends that if someone killed in the flight crash would be okay because you are in the sky, your soul will go. It has been eight minutes. Reporter eight minutes for the copilot to crash an airliner into the french alps. But milads uncle prefers to focus on his life, not death. He was a fantastic journalist. And hes still one of the best we have in iran. And because he worked not only as a journalist, he worked with his heart. Reporter milad had been in spain with friend and a fellow journalist. They had taken these photos together. They had been covering the soccer game barcelona versus real madrid. Milad was a lifelong barcelona fan. His hero absolutely. Reporter local village mayor francois is here at a memorial site to help console all the grieving families. And on sunday, he sent this digger to carve a tract of the crash site. Thats around four kilometers or 2 1 2 miles away as the crow flies, but till now accessible only by helicopter. I felt the families wanted this, and they asked me to get them as close as possible, as if every meter mattered to them, he says. Relatives asked him to describe the area closest to the crash. This was a corner of paradise, but now there is the before and after the accident, he says. I tell them about the alpine scenery up there where karl penhaul, cnn, france. Otos are great. 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This time the story is unfold unfolding. He says he thought he was going to die. After he leaves they pull him over when they say he runs a stop sign. He said he never stopped at the motel and was headed home after work and denies he did anything wrong. I didnt think they were stopping me. William melindez writes he believes he was fleeing when he failed to stop right away. Seen here on a dash cam video he approaches the car gun drawn as dent opens the car door and is dragged out. As im trying to get out of the car they yank me out of the car and throws me to the ground and starts beating me upside the head and choking me. Im begging for my life. Im telling the officer i cant breathe. Police say he didnt fully comply. According to the Police Report he saw dent turn towards the center of the car and feared he was reaching for a weapon. Next they say he threatens to kill the officers. He says he starts to punch dent when he bit down on his forearms. In fear of being bitten again he struck him several times with a closed right fist. I didnt have time. After the incident dent is shown here swollen, bloody battered. He spent two days in the hospital. Officer melindez is shown here on the right. In the Police Report officers say they were only protecting themselves during the january 28th incident but a judge who saw the video dismissed resisting arrest and Assault Charges after seeing the tape. Dent was charged with possession of crack cocaine after police found it under the passenger seat of the car. Hes pleaded not guilty. Dents Attorney Says video of officer melindez pulling out a plastic baggy from his pocket is proof that the police planted the drugs. We have on video this officer searching the car and testifying i found it under the passenger seat. Of course my clients fingerprints will not be on the bag, we know that. The drug charge still stands. We respect our Police Officers and hold them accountable for their actions as well. At a press Conference Last Week Community Leaders set an investigation into the conduct of the officers is underway but wont comment on any specifics. We started this investigation. Were not hiding from it. Well follow the facts and act accordingly. Dent has worked at the ford motor accompany for nearly 40 years. Hes never before been arrested. This is some type of cover up okay. Trying to cover up what they did. Melindez a veteran officer, has been put on paid administrative duties until the investigation is complete. Cnn attempted to reach officer melindez several times by phone and email and the police union with no response. On april 1st floyd dent is expected to appear in court on the drug charge. Its a charge he plans to fight. Lets follow up with you. Thank you so much. Great reporting. Im brook baldwin. Thank you so much for being here with me on a monday. A lot to cover today. A Prosecutor Says that copilot was suicidal several years ago. Im jake tapper. This is the lead. The world lead new details today on the copilot whom Authorities Say committed mass murder in the sky. Was his Mental Illness so severe he was actually experiencing physical pain and how did all those red flags get missed . The national lead, a bizarre and deadly shoot out. Why the two guys dressed as women tried to ram their way into the nsa. And the pop culture lead fresh air has only been on the daily show three times and thats all comedy central