Transcripts For CNNW CNN Newsroom 20170304

Morning. Not in any way apparently running these tweets by any of his staffers. This morning he began the tweets at around 6 30 a. M. Now this official appointed to a story on the conservative website breitbart news, that has been circulating around the west wing. Which followed up on comments made by radio talk show host mark levin that claimed that president obama was trying to undermine trumps president ial campaign and his administration. Including through these various investigations on russia and possible ties between russians and trump associates. That story in particular very much angered the president according to the Senior Administration official. And just a couple of hours ago, the president s social media director and an adviser, dan scodino tweeted out a link to that very same breitbart story. Which lends creedance to the idea that this could be the basis for the tweets. But as you mentioned, president obama has strenuously denied this through a spokesperson. Lets read that statement from kevin lewis. A Cardinal Rule of the Obama Administration was that no white house official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the department of justice. As part of that practice, neither president obama nor any white house official ever ordered surveillance on any u. S. Citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false. Very vigorous denial there. And weve had other former senior officials in the Obama Administration point out that a president doesnt order wiretaps. Other officials have said this is nonsense and it didnt happen. Were hearing a lastminute addition to the president s public schedule today. What can you tell us about that in. Thats right. Couple of things, we knew he was planning to have dinner tonight with commerce secretary wilbur ross, but theyve added a meeting at 6 30 on this official schedule that was put out, a meeting the president will have with the attorney general, Jeff Sessions and with the secretary of the department of homeland security, john kelly. An hour later the president will sit down with sessions and kelly, and also with the commerce secretary, wilbur ross and his wife, along with aides, Steven Miller and steven bannon, and white House Counsel don mcgann. All of that taking place in the coming hours at maralago. All closedpress, but these are additions. This is interesting coming in light of the fact that were hearing that the new travel ban, the new revised travel ban will be coming next week, going to be signed next week. That of course has been, delayed, a delay process as they work to put out a revised ban that could better with stand legal scrutiny. Athena jones, thank you so much for that. I want to bring in my panel. Cnns justice producer, josh rogen. And cnn political analyst and Washington Post columnist. David barrenhold, and cnn contributor Washington Post and sarah westwood, White House Correspondent for the washington examiner. Your reporting is crucial, you spoke with a former u. S. Official about the wiretapping allegations. Tell us about that allegation. The former senior white house official who had direct knowledge of the investigation surrounding trump associates, meddling in the election, and other facts within the election, deny that there was any intentional tapping of Donald Trumps phones. Or anything intentional sort of at trump tower related to donald trump. Said this never happened. We never requested it. A warrant was never issued. They never went to a judge asking for this, for any sort of wiretapping of Donald Trumps phone. So basically, we have a former officials who are all denying that this, this occurred. Certainly under the Obama Administration. And this person would know all the way through probably mid january when this investigation was still ongoing. Up until some of the former officials left the white house. Important context, josh were hearing from former c. I. A. Analyst ned price who donated 5,000 to the Democratic Party and Hillary Clintons Campaign Last year. He quit the c. I. A. This month. This is what he says. This is his Statement Released today this is a calculated attempt to distract from this administrations multipronged yet unexplained russian ties, or a fundamental misunderstanding of how intelligence and Law Enforcement authorities operate. Either way, this outburst should frighten all americans. Strong words, josh, your reaction . I think what youre seeing here is the trump team, and president conflating two separate issues. One is what was going on during the a long investigation by the fbi into links between the Trump Campaign and russians. And two, the sort of rightwing media sort of meme that this was part of an Obama Administration fifth column deet state attack coup. Theres no evidence that the Obama White House was involved in pushing this investigation or setting up any of these investigative tactics. Theres no confirmation that there was an fbi fisa warrant so what the Obama Administration is saying very clearly here, the former Obama Administration officials is that we werent involved in this, okay . If there was some fbi monitoring of you know trump tower connections to russian banks as has been reported but not confirmed. Thats one thing. To take it to the next step as the president did this morning and say this is a directed part of an Obama Administration deep state plot to overthrow the Trump White House thats really, really inflammatory and that is taking this to a level of conspiracy that is really somewhat beyond the pale. Of course there are checks and balances in place to prohibit a president from ordering surveillance of a u. S. Citizen. And david it appears trump once again is relying on rightwing media reports to make these allegations. We dont know what other briefings or information hes been looking at. But as my colleague jeff zeleny reported, this breitbart report that has been circling around the white house and the radio show host mark levin talked about it. Last time as youll recall, it was sweden. When he was at that rally saying there was an attack in sweden because he saw a fox news report. So the question is, david, do you think this is reckless . The thing that surprises me is that President Trump is in a position to be the bestinformed person in the world. He not has all the news media. He has giant informationgathering, synthesizing apparatuses, if he wanted to know the answers to these things, he could. He seems to be relying on thirdhand misconstrued, and misunderstood reports and often rightwing media. Its hay mazing that hes not using the powers he has to inform himself, and instead wants to rely on what he sees on tv. And whats key here is he tweeted it early this morning. He said he just learned presumably he wasnt getting an engin intelligence briefing this morning. Sarah you say its not in the white houses interest to let a trump tweet stand for very long without an explanation. We have a senior white house official, with a do you make of team trumps reaction so far . Is that enough . Well clearly, they need to get on top of providing the back story to reporters as quickly as possible. The longer they wait, the longer opponents have time to frame this as a conspiracy theory. The longer the Obama Administration has time to put their word in before the Trump Administration has a chance to talk about what President Trump was intending to say with his tweets. The thing that President Trump has done inadvertently, lets just say for a moment hypothetically, its true that Trumps Communications were wiretapped. Then trump is publicly confirming a criminal investigation he has spent so long trying to deny even existed. Attorney general Jeff Sessions went to Great Lengths this week not to confirm or deny the existence of this investigation. Now President Trump is coming out and essentially saying yes, this criminal investigation was going on during the campaign and transition. The Trump Administration has categorically denied as a group that that investigation ever existed. Thank you very much, panel. Stick around. Coming up, here on the newsroom, trump fires back, tweet pictures of Top Democrats meeting with russian officials. Calling one a hypocrite and another a liar. A look at the strategy of calling this a witchhunt. After the break. Hnk hi, im frank. I take movantik for oic, opioidinduced constipation. Had a bad back injury, my doctor prescribed opioids which helped with the chronic pain, but backed me up bigtime. Tried prunes, laxatives, still constipated. Had to talk to my doctor. She said, how long you been holding this in . laughs that was my movantik moment. My doctor told me that movantik is specifically designed for oic and can help you go more often. Dont take movantik if you have a bowel blockage or a history of them. Movantik may cause serious side effects, including symptoms of opioid withdrawal, severe stomach pain and or diarrhea, and tears in the stomach or intestine. Tell your doctor about any side effects and about medicines you take. Movantik may interact with them causing side effects. Why hold it in . Have your movantik moment. Talk to your doctor about opioidinduced constipation. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Wont replace the full value of your totaled new car. The guy says you picked the wrong insurance plan. 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This after sessions recused himself from any investigation into possible ties between russian officials and the Trump Campaign. President trump still calling the controversy over sessions testimony quote a witch hunt. My panel is back with me, josh rogen, david farrenhold and sarah westwood. Josh, a meeting tonight with sessions at maralago. Apparently he was a lastminute add, what do you make of that . It seems like a strong public show of support from the president to his attorney general. Lets remember that President Trump was resisting calls for Jeff Sessions to recuse himself only hours before he recused himself. This is simply the president wrapping his arms around Jeff Sessions and saying hes still a big part of the team. They happen to discuss the immigration executive order. Thats why dhs secretary john kelly is there. The white house i think knows that it sort of has to sort of take a stand against and stick to its positioning, which is now to defend the practice of meeting with the Russian Ambassador and to make this argument that just meeting with the Russian Ambassador is not in and of itself anything, any indication of wrong doing and i think thats one theyre going to stay and i think no matter how many meetings we find with the Russian Ambassador and Trump Administration officials, theyre going to have to sort of keep that ground pretty solid and then sort of take it from there. And david, sessions has already recused himself from investigating Russian Election meddling. On monday he will supplement his Senate Testimony about contacts with the Russian Ambassador. Do you think thats going to be enough to satisfy critics . No, and i think what were going to see is more reporting, some more questions raised by media and folks on both sides of the aisle, with sessions contact with kislyak, and questions about other contacts were learning about between other members of the trump team, the closein numbers and more distant Foreign Policy advisers, between them and the russians, i think theres a lot more questions out there about exactly what those conversations were and what they talked about. Enter twitter as is often the case when were talking about President Trump. He is responding to the growing criticism by tweeting this 2003 of Senate Minority leader Chuck Schumer with Russias Putin saying we should start an investigation into senator schumer and his ties to russia and putin. A total hypocrite. Senate minority leader Chuck Schumer responded to trumps twitter accusations, with this, happily retalk to my contact with mr. Putin took place in 2003 in full view of the press. And public under oath. Would you and your team . Russian gas company station. And a social media war, is it not, sarah . You know, if this was a classic trumpian way of highlighting the fact that there were some contradictory statements among democrats when they rushed to pile on Jeff Sessions right after these, the revelations about his contact with the Russian Ambassadors, the current senator Claire Mccaskill said shes never met with any russian official in her decade on the Armed Services committee. That turned out not to be true. But those tweets about schumer and paloschi miss the heart of the criticism against Jeff Sessions. Which is not the underlying meetings, but the fact he didnt disclose them to the Senate Judiciary committee. Thats the heart of the criticism against all of the Trump Campaign officials. A lot of them were businessmen or had existing lobbying businesses that took them to contact with russian officials, but the fact that they seem to have gone to certain lengths to cover up those contacts. Is what has raised questions among these trump critics. It certainly does. And david you touched on this in your last answer and i want to do a deeper dive, kind of going through these meetings between members of trumps inner circle and russian officials, so lets take a look at this list here. Attorney general Jeff Sessions we now know, the president s soninlaw, jared kushner, ousted National Security adviser, Michael Flynn. The campaigns National Security representative, jd gordon. Adviser david page, and adviser as well. Many of these people have previously denied any such contact with any russian during the campaign. So that denial make you wonder that theres something they dont want us to know . I mean meeting with the Russian Ambassador doesnt necessarily mean anything you know, nefarious is going on. But the fact that they wont sort of come out and say up front about it. What do you make of that, david . At this point its hard to know. And in every case theyve come up with some excuse or another and theyve changed their story several times. Particularly in the case of Michael Flynn. The interesting thing to me is the two biggest cases, Jeff Sessions and mike flynn, trump himself well trump himself said he didnt know until it was in the media the news was out there. And remember mike pence who had gone on tv to defend mike flynn, didnt know that flynn had lied to him until he read about it in the Washington Post. Even within the trump team theres been confusion about who is telling the truth. Who is giving the pulling version of the story. Its hard to know exactly what the underlying truth is here. But it seems certain theres a lot more to come out. More people have dug, the more they found out the first answers they got were not truthful. Its so interesting the context, the russias ambassador, kislyak led to the ouster of Michael Flynn as National Security adviser. Once it came to light there were discussions of sanctions and so forth. Even though he denied that. And after it came to light that Jeff Sessions met with him during the campaign, he recused himself from any investigation involving the Trump Campaign so what do you make of that, josh . The russia issue had just become so sensitive and so tense, and such an existential crisis for the Trump White House, that any smoke is just, they just avoid it so much that it causes them to be defensive, to be overly cautious about what they admit about it, they dont know what theyre supposed to say. Theres a lot of confusion and disorganization inside the administration about how they should respond to this. The bottom line here is we dont know, okay, the fbi doesnt know, if there was real collusion between the trump people and the russians. I dont know, you dont know, probably trump doesnt even know. The problem is because this is a, this issue has come out of such a divisive and Contentious Campaign season and has become so highly politicized, their actions are suspicious, thats not an indication of guilt, but not a sign of innocence, either. Josh rogen, david farrenhold, sarah westwood, we appreciate it. Coming up on this saturday, a bizarre scene on capitol hill. One senator who literally goes on a Scavenger Hunt to find a republican plan to find obamacare. While another lawmaker talks to a statue, details ahead. Look feel free to be yourself all day. Just switch from denture paste to seabond denture adhesive seals. Holds stronger than the leading paste all day. Without the ooze. Feel secure. Be yourself. With stronger, clean seabond. Well consider it a political game of hide and seek this week, republican senator rand paul went on a hunt to find the gops obamacare replacement plan. A plan he says is being kept under lock and key. Senator paul, are you concerned that the bill is in a locked room . Not allowed to be in this area. I would like to read the obamacare bill. This is being presented as if this were a national secret. I think theres a bill in there. Its the secret office for the secret bill. Now we brought our own copy machine, too, but we didnt get to use it. Im told that the republicans have their aca, Affordable Care act bill, repeal, somewhere . The capital. Were going to look for it. Its not here. I cant find the bill. I know it was mr. Lincoln, you are as upset with your party as i am. Thank you all. Joining me now for what i imagine will be a lively discussion, republican and former Lieutenant Governor of new york, betsy mccoy, the author of beating obamacare avoid the landmines. And joining us, democratic strategist jonathan tassini. Thank you for coming on. Lieutenant governor, i want to go to you first. Do republicans have a secret obamacare plan . Or is the only secret that the republicans dont have a plan that they can all eventually agree on . Well, they do have a plan, and its not secret at all. In fact im holding a copy of the version that they discussed wednesday, when all the republican senators met behind closed doors. And i have a piece in the New York Post today analyzing it in case your viewers would like to read that. So the latest iteration, just a day after that meeting, includes the markups that are now being added by two house committees. The Energy Committee and the ways and means committee. And that is the way the normal course of events for writing legislation. So i know that rand paul is garnering a lot of press, pretending that he cant find this bill. But the fact is, he will be able to read the markups, as soon as theyre ready. Just like they are always available as soon as theyre ready. Theres no secrecy about this. Theyre doing it the same way legislation is always written. John, do you agree . Well, apparently rand paul and other members of congress dont agree. I think its been hidden. I think theres a reason for that i think the republicans have been buried and barraged at town Hall Meetings all across the country. I think cnn and Many Networks have shown video of people coming to town Hall Meetings, crowding in those town Hall Meetings and basically shouting at their legislators, mostly republicans, some democrats, demanding that they protect obamacare. And whats interesting, pamela is obamacare is more popular than its ever been before. And thats largely because of the demonstrations, the rallies organized by bernie sanders, Chuck Schumer. Democrats, because people now understand that obamacare was the Affordable Care act. They had health care that way. And the republican alternative is to basically do what they had done before. Throw people on the mercy of the free market where millions of people wont have health care. Unreasonable and high deductibles and heres an important part, pamela. Its going to shift an enormous amount of money to the 1 , the rich. Which is what republicans do all the time. Well let me point out, since ive actually read this plan and it appears that jonathan hasnt that none of that is true. Well whats not true, betsy . Just a moment. Let me please finish and i will explain. First of all, 15 of the 20 million newly insured under Affordable Care act are enrolled in medicaid. And the plan does not throw anyone off of medicaid. So heres, heres, but thats not true. Because if its the republican plan, what paul ryan jonathan, hold on i want to hear what the Lieutenant Governor says. And then ill let you talk. The 15 million who are on medicaid are not going to be thrown off. Its here in the plan. They are not going to be thrown off. Number two. 20 Million People newly gained insurance, but about 200 Million People are being very hurt by this law. And they are demanding repeal. 156 Million People with onthejob coverage who are paying much more in deductibles than ever before because of the employer mandate. 10 Million People who are incurring penalties for not having insurance. Penalties they cant afford. Eight Million People who have lost their onthejob coverage because of the obamacare employer mandate. So there are many, many people who are demanding repeal. They may not show up at town Hall Meetings, theyre too busy working. Okay. Jonathan . Let me make an important point first, pamela. That ive always been for single payer, medicare for all, like all major countries. The fact that we arent doing that i blame partly republicans, but also some democrats. Thats the only solution to our health care crisis. And thats what we should push for. Every ceo in america. Like i wrote about it. Every ceo in america should want a single payer medicare for all program which would relieve us of hundreds of billions of dollars of cost. Let me bring up two things that betsy said that are false. On medicaid, the biggest difference with republicans, assuming thats theyre arguing in this health care bill. Is what paul ryan was arguings, they would deliver a block grant to the state. If the block grant didnt cover people, unlike the aca, which committed the government to cover, millions of people would be thrown off medicaid. Thats just an economic fact. Not what the plan says. Look, you, i dont care if its written. Its how you fund it. If its about a block grant, which is what paul ryan has always argued would be the solution in any health care bill, that means and i want people to understand this. That means millions of people will be thrown off medicaid. The second point, on the question of people paying a, what betsy called a penalty. The problem actually with obamacare, the Affordable Care act, is the fine if you will call it for not participating, was too low. And if we, if we, and that, that basically put, that allowed young people, Healthy People to opt out of the plan. What we need to do and i think there are some things that need to be fixed in the arch ca. We need to set the penalty at the lowest premium so people do essentially opt in. When you have participation sounds like jonathan wants let me finish. When you have participation, this is just a reality economics, not betsys alternative facts. When you have participation in a health plan, thats what pushes costs down. Betsy . Yes. Let me point out that obamacare did something very unfair. It forced young, Healthy People to pay the same premium as chronically ill people. But chronically ill people use on average ten times as much health care as younger, healthier people do. They could see it was a sham and thats why they didnt sign up. This new plan funds care for the seriously ill with tax dollars, rather than imposing the burden on premium payers in the individual market. Those with preexisting conditions will be fully cared for. But the costs will be spread far more fairly over all taxpayers, rather than burdening people in the individual Insurance Market so premiums are going to come way down and Health Insurance will be affordable again. That is the goal. Hold on. Take a step back, jonathan, hold on. Lets take a step back and look at the politics surrounding all of this right now. We saw steny hoyer talking to the statue of lincoln. House minority leader, nancy pelosi, has been mocking the republicans on twitter. Offering her hounds to help in the search for the missing obamacare replacement bill and comparing the search to a game of wheres waldo . Are democrats doing too much to fuel anger instead of helping republicans get down to the business of improving obamacare . Heres the thing, pamela republicans have no interest in improving the Affordable Care act. They want to throw millions of people off the health roles and thats what will happen. And by the way, they want to bankrupt medicare. Look, republicans always wanted to destroy medicare, thats been, theyve hated medicare. And what the Affordable Care act did actually, and this is an important thing, we dont talk about this it pushed off the insolvency of medicare, at least until 2028. The Congressional Budget Office, not betsys alternative facts or the white houses alternative facts, the Congressional Budget Office said that 350 billion of the cost over ten years for medicare, that was attributable directly to the Affordable Care act. I would say to seniors right now, if the republicans oppose and repeal aca, you will be off medicare. Your premiums will go up and your copays will go up. Thats terrible scaremongering. Its a fact, betsy. Tell me, is it a fact let me ask you a question, is it a fact that the Congressional Budget Office said that 350 billion id like to answer this. That in fact obamacare eviscerated medicare. That is not true. And a strong stand against the Affordable Care act. Is that it included provisions that made it much harder for older people to get hip and knee replacements and other things. I want to point out one thing, pamela betsy has i have to say betsy has a long history of putting up falsehoords. Jonathan, former Lieutenant Governor betsy mccaughey, i gave you the fair chance to get your words heard. I appreciate you coming on and having that debate. On the front lines in mosul. We go live to iraq as doctors treat the victims of a suspected chemical attack by isis. Out tre. Tresiba® ready tresiba® is a oncedaily, longacting insulin that lasts even longer than 24 hours. I need to shave my a1c. Tresiba® ready tresiba® works like my bodys insulin. Releases slow and steady. 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Red cross Officials Say five children, three women and four men were treated for symptoms consistent with exposure to a chemical agent. Senior International Correspondent ben wedeman filed this story. We want to warn you you may find the video youre about to see disturbing. 11yearold yassed lies unconscious in bed. A rocket left him with a concussion, and symptoms doctors at this hospital in erbil say point to a chemical attack. Shortness of breath. Seconddegree burn. Hospital director dr. Lohan miran has no doubt about what happened. It is a chemical gas. 12 people including Michael Beatty have been treated for exposure to chemical agents. In the first such attack by isis since the start of the mosul offensive last october. We saw him when he was in his house when a rocket landed outside. There was a rotten smell, he recalls and there was Something Like burnt oil. There was gas, no one can breathe in the whole area. We left the house and the Civil Defense sealed it up. The u. S. Defense department has warned that isis has developed a primitive capacity to develop chemical weapons and has used them in syria and iraq. The worry is with isis desperate and surrounded in western mosul it wont hesitate to use everything in its arsenal. The red cross is setting up tents in the event theres more chemical attacks. In a statement related to the incident, the red cross stressed the use of chemical weapons is a war crime. Not that that makes any difference to isis. Indifferent as it is to the suffering of its victims. This attack comes at a time when people are starting to move back to liberated east mosul. Of course the problem is, the eastern part of the city is within mortar and rocket range of the west. Those parts that are still under isis control. And basically, this is the classic tactic of terrorists. You kill one, terrorize a million. Pamela . Ben wedeman, thank you very much for that. Coming up on this saturday, a cnn original series, retracing the roots of christianity and the myths surrounding the life and death of jesus. A sneak peek at finding jesus next. And a team of experienced traders ready to help if you need it. Its like having the power of a trading floor, wherever you are. Its your trade. E trade hi, im frank. I take movantik for oic, opioidinduced constipation. Had a bad back injury, my doctor prescribed opioids which helped with the chronic pain, but backed me up bigtime. Tried prunes, laxatives, still constipated. Had to talk to my doctor. She said, how long you been holding this in . laughs that was my movantik moment. My doctor told me that movantik is specifically designed for oic and can help you go more often. Dont take movantik if you have a bowel blockage or a history of them. Movantik may cause serious side effects, including symptoms of opioid withdrawal, severe stomach pain and or diarrhea, and tears in the stomach or intestine. Tell your doctor about any side effects and about medicines you take. Movantik may interact with them causing side effects. Why hold it in . Have your movantik moment. Talk to your doctor about opioidinduced constipation. If you cant afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. Come close, come close. I like that. [ all sounds come to a crashing halt ] ah. When your pain reliever stops working, your whole day stops. Awww. Try this. For minor arthritis pain, only aleve is fda approved to work for up to 12 straight hours with just one pill. Thank you. Come on everybody. Aleve. Live whole. Not part. An unlimited data plan is only as good as the network its on. And verizon has been ranked number one for the 7th time in a row by rootmetrics. man hey, uh, whats rootmetrics . Its the nations largest independent study and it ranked verizon 1 in call, text, data, speed and reliability. woman do they get a trophy . Not that i know of. But you get unlimited done right. man 2 why dont they get a trophy . man 3 they should get something. woman 2 how about a plaque . I have to drop this. My arms getting really tired. Unlimited on verizon. 4 lines, just 45 per line. And her new mobile wedding business. Tte at first, getting paid was tough. Until she got quickbooks. Now she sends invoices, sees when theyve been viewed andtadahpaid twice as fast for free. Visit quickbooksdotcom. Well the Second Season of the cnn original series, finding jesus premieres tomorrow night at 9 00. It focuses on the central figure in the death of jesus, Pontius Pilate. Our own David Gregory went to the holy land to explore. On the shore of the mediterranean sea, there is an ancient secret as old as the birth of christianity. Here in ceseria, the majestic roman port, a fatal determination changed history. The roman governor based here was called on to decide the fate of jesus of nazareth. He would be a harsh judge. He was a brutal, we hear about massacres and the bloodsheds that was connected to the time that he had the rule of judia. He was not a nice person. We have come to the amphitheater in secera with an archaeologist who has spent 20 years conducting excavations in the holy land in 1961 archaeologists discovered proof of pilates existence. You wouldnt think that at this spot, under this wooden step, this encryption was found, latin inscription, mentioning Pontius Pilate, was a pivotal moment, because suddenly Pontius Pilate comes out of this written inscription. The Israel Museum here in jerusalem is a treasure house of art faifacts from the first ceny to visit here is to discover crucial evidence of the end of jesus life. The left side of the pilates dome was chiselled away to fit in the theater. But the inscription is clear pontius pilae. A stone thought to commemorate a lighthouse to the emperor tiberius. It was the only physical object from his time. Pilate was called to jerusalem amid the uproar over the ministry of jesus. Considered a rebel leading a messiah movement. Are you the king of the jews pilate asks in the scripture and he answered him. You have said so. He probably thought of jesus as a minor rebel, the kind of which he saw many in his governorship. The ornate ossuary next to the pilate stone is thought to belong to a jewish high priest, a pivotal figure in the trial of jesus. Dr. Gibsons excavations next to the tower of david museum have uncovered further evidence of pilates time in jerusalem. Based on the gospels and writings of the period, the archaeologist imagines pilates judgment. He decides to make an example of jesus and to have his crucified. I dont think he would have had a sleepless night over it. There are no records of pilates last days or his burial place, history records he was called back to rome to account for the brutality of his rule. For the faithful. This crucial episode marks just the beginning. Our thanks to David Gregory. Lets talk it over with robert cargill. Assistant professor of religion at the university of iowa and the author of the cities that built the bible. Thank you for coming on. You were featured as an expert commentator, throughout finding jesus season 2. Pamela, the bible essentially portrays Pontius Pilate with softer gloves than does lets say the roman jewish historian flavius josephus. The reason for that is that the christians wanted to portray jesus and christianity as little more favorable to rome. They wanted rome to look upon christians, you know, not as they had looked upon the jews, who you know, had rebelled against them from 66 to 70 a. D. So what we see is that josephus says that pilate was a brutal administrator. Whereas in the bible hes shown as being very reluctant to crucify jesus. And you say the relationship, robert, between science and religion can be an uneasy one. How does this series, finding jesus explore those connections between hard evidence and faith . Sure. Whether youre religious or not, its hard to deny that judaism and christianity have had an effect on the world. There seems to be at times theyre at odds. Science and religion are at odds. What we try to do is examine the actual evidence. To be honest about the evidence that we have, and the evidence that we dont have. So that people of faith can watch the show, understand what we know and what we dont know. And it understores the importance of faith in judaism or christianity. And for nonreligious individuals, they can understand why this is such a big deal to so many people around the world. Finding jesus you were on the ground in israel walking viewers through significant historical sites and showing precious artifacts. What was the experience like for you personally . Every time i go to israel, ive been digging there since 1999, ive been there quite a bit, its a thrill for me. I really am a kid again. Very excited all the time and of course, in finding jesus i get to do my favorite thing, which is climb on things, point at them and explain why theyre such a big deal. So for me its a lot of fun to meet the people, to hear all the sounds. And just to touch history. It really makes history and the bible come alive. You say people of all faiths or no faith should watch the series. Looking forward to seeing it. Robert cargill, thank you very much. The search continues an epic new season of finding jesus begins tomorrow night. This is one gorgeous truck. Special edition. Oh, did i say theres only one special edition . Because, actually theres five. Ooohh aaaahh uh hooooly mackerel. Wow. Nice. Strength and style. Its truck month. Get 0 financing for 60 months plus find your tag and get 5500 on select Chevy Silverado pickups when you finance with gm financial. Find new roads at your local chevy dealer. Youre in the cnn newsroom on this saturday, im pamela brown, great to have you with us. We begin with the breaking news, President Trump firing off unsubstantiated allegations of wiretapping. Allegations that stun even members of his own administration. President trump tweeting, terrible, just found out that obama had my wires tapped in trump tower just before the victory. Nothing found this is mccarthyism. He went on to clarify his personal phone was tapped. A spokesman for former president flatly denies the claims saying this a Cardinal Rule of the Obama Administration was that no white house official ever interfered with any independent investigation led by the department of justice. As part of that practice, neither president obama nor any white house official ever ordered surveillance on any u. S. Citizen. Any suggestion otherwise is simply false. White house correspondent athena jones joins me live near maralago and cnn crime and justice producer shimon proquepez. What indications are you getting