>> it's a family show, and a family hour. abby phillip, thank you so much. nice to see you. >> you too. have a good, show laura coates. >> welcome, everyone. two "cnn tonight" -- i am laura coates. -- a community is on high alert -- that escaped murderer in pennsylvania. danelo cavalcante, who was sentenced to life without parole for stabbing his girlfriend to death in front of her two young children. he has been now caught on security cameras at longwood garden, a popular tourist spot with many hiking trails through the woods including, by the way, when that loops around the very prison he broke out of thursday morning. the dea da -- law enforcement is now warning residents again tonight, keep your doors locked, keep your cars locked. at least one nearby school district will be closed for the second day in a row tomorrow, as police are urgently hunting for the extremely dangerous fugitive who, well -- he's got absolutely nothing to lose. also, a chilling near miss. what happened when one resident woke up in the middle of the night and -- thinks it was cavalcante -- someone downstairs in his own home. now, police are urging anybody who has information to call their tip line at 877-wanted-2 or 877-966-32 -- georgia election subversion case, and now, we are just a few hours away, and it could tell us a lot about whether -- fancy yearbook photo, will they be tried together? and, if so, when might that happen? and, did i mention the hearings are expected to be televised? remember, it is state court, after all. we will tell you what to watch out for in the hearing tomorrow. we have also got some breaking news tonight. a late court filing from none other than special counsel jack smith. he is accusing former president trump of what he calls -- statements that threaten to prejudice the jury on a -- subversion case right out of washington d.c.. and, he was convicted of brutal murders of his own wife and son a few months ago. you may remember alex alec murdaugh -- amid accusations of jury tampering and by a court official no less, the big question tonight, what happens now? i want to bring in our breaking news tonight, with the urgent manhunt for a -- murderer -- danelo cavalcante escape from a pennsylvania prison just six days ago. joining me now is robert clark, a supervisory deputy of the u.s. marshal services. i'm so glad that you are here tonight, robert, because, look -- this is day six. you have been following this case all along. and the big question people are asking, of course, is, how did it happen in the first place? but now, how has he been able to evade capture, do you think, over six days? >> good evening, laura coates. thank you for having me this evening. it's an interesting question. how has he been able to evade capture for six days? you have to remember, when he escaped into the woods, it was a large area. it was a mile and a half to two mile radius that we were searching. and we kept getting tip after tip, and sending people in the woods that are very thick. the foliage is very thick over here. there's a lot of ravines, a lot of tall fields, a lot of grass, a lot of hiding spaces for a guy that is five foot, 120 pounds. so, for a lot of days, we focused our search area specifically in a certain section up here at -- we had a break last night that cavalcante was caught on a camera, on a trail camera just south of where we were searching. so, today, we have -- more resources and we focused our search efforts in a different area in hopes that, perhaps, we can flush him out in this new search grid. this is a dangerous grid of tactical hide and seek. and it takes time. it takes time. these searches are nothing new to the pennsylvania state, police to the u.s. marshal service. but they take time. >> a very important point. and there were danger pops out for so many people, because you are talking about somebody who has already been sentenced. he's not accused of the crime. he's been convicted of it. he's not awaiting sentencing. he has been sentenced, now, to life without parole. that might -- a lot of people as exponentially more dangerous now that he has nothing to lose. the alternative, if he is captured, is a life behind bars. so, expanding that perimeter and trying to search for him -- how does that factor into your calculus of what he might be willing to do if he is found by your team? >> we are taking no chances with mr. cavalcante. everybody has been warned of his criminal history. we are treating him as armed and dangerous, even though nothing suggests that he is presently armed, due to his criminal history, due to the violent nature of his crime, and due to the fact that he also has an open homicide warrant in brazil. so, not only does he have the homicide here and the conviction, he also has an open homicide in brazil. so, this is a dangerous, dangerous man. he's got nothing to lose. but i can tell you this. his desperate niece will not outlast the resolve of our law enforcement officers here. we just have, probably, a couple hundred officers here now -- the pennsylvania state police incident commander doing a fabulous job controlling the boots on the ground. the marshal service -- aren't vest gaiters here or some of the best in the country. and we are going to prove once again at why we are the best at finding people who don't want to be found. >> so, what happens when you find him? to have orders in terms of how to bring him in? or is there a directive to bring him in regardless of his state? >> when we find him we are going to bring him in and make sure that he goes to a secure facility. i don't want to reveal we are he's going to go. he is going to be brought in and placed in a secure facility where he's not going to be able to break out again i, can assure you that. >> so, the suggestion is, he's not going back to where he already broke out of? >> he may be processed, there laura. i'm not sure. but ultimately, we are going to find the most secure facility around here for him, whether that's the same facility or perhaps another state facility. i am not in the decision-making for that. i am more involved in the investigation. so, that decision is going to be left up to somebody else, the secretary's office, and perhaps county detectives here. >> i understand. one of the phrases i have been hearing a lot is that the goal is, with a strategy, with all the resources to, quote unquote, to try to stress cavalcante. what does that strategy look like? to try to stress him? i know you have already had, i think, audio of his own mother speaking in portuguese, trying to lure him in, essentially, to the custody of the officers searching for him. but what does that stress test of sorts look for in the strategy of how to get him? >> the idea of guessing him came from colonel -- pennsylvania state command, and i fully agree -- we plan to move him, have to make mistakes which he has already made now. he has appeared on camera two times. and by stressing, we mean, we are going to get boots in the woods. we are going to let him know we are there. we are going to leave no rock unturned. we are going to check every little hiding spot. and, should we miss him, we are going to go back in again the next day and try to keep him moving. one of the tactics we did use, i think you mentioned earlier, was, we elicited a statement from his mother. and she said, essentially, we love you, do the right thing, turn yourself in, we don't want to see you get hurt. and that was broadcast to him over a loudspeaker from a pennsylvania police helicopter, and some patrol cars. so, we are trying to use some of that psychology that, if he is tired and he is desperate and he is thinking about maybe giving up, maybe this will put him over the edge to have a peaceful surrender. >> robert clark, thank you so much. we will follow along. >> thank you for having, me laura. i appreciate it. >> i want to bring in cnn chief law enforcement analyst john miller and former fbi deputy director andrew mccabe. -- trying to circle the wagons, so to speak, and trying to use either psychological tactics to try to get him to peacefully surrender. that phrase, of course, sticks in my craw because this is a man who has already been sentenced to life without the possibility of parole, i believe. john, when you hear about these mistakes that are being alerted to -- five credible sightings of this man, one person thinks he was actually in his home late friday. listen to what that man had to say. >> i look at my wife. i said, hey, i think it might be somebody downstairs. get on the phone. what i decided to do was flip the light switch on and off. after about three or four or five times, pause. and then he flipped the light switch from down series three or four times, which was the moment of, oh, my god, this guy is down there. >> john, what does that interaction signal to you? >> you know, that is a new one for me, laura. the idea of communicating in moore's code three light switches with a burglar. but i think, essentially, the homeowner flash flood lights to say -- and stay out of my way. he's a desperate man. he is looking for clothing. he is looking for food. he may be looking for a cell phone or something that would be a good tool. but, more urgently, he may be looking for a weapon, whether that is a knife, a weapon he used in his last two homicides, or whether that is a gun, he is in an area that kind of skirts between rural area woodlands, farmlands, and suburban tracts of houses. so, if you look at the sightings, they have had, a lot of these have been at night where he has been tracking the edges between woodlands and backyards, where he is looking for that opportunity to get in somewhere and get some food, get some clothes, and maybe get some cash, whatever he can. >> for some reason, i am thinking that light flashing scene -- was that in what we call parasite? -- i don't want to do a spoiler alert. but there was a person who is living in the home wasn't supposed to be, using a kind of light morse code. forgive me, i'm thinking about the movies in this instance, because -- >> -- basement -- >> right. you remember. it reads a lot like what is happening -- the scene real, but in fact, andrew mccabe, it is real. he has been quite brazen, it seems. he has been spotted. he's not actually covering behind cover of darkness, although a lot of the camera -- we have seen he has been sort of in the darkness. does it surprise you that he is being so brazen while he is on the run? >> not at all, not at all. so, that interaction between the homeowner and who, we believe, is a subject we are looking for, that is the moment that we have all been kind of afraid of. when this desperate man, this desperate murderer, who has no ability to communicate, he's got no transportation, very little food, just the clothes on his back, no shelter -- he is forced to break into a house, to steal the things he needs. and he confronts a homeowner. like, that is the moment when this situation could turn incredibly violent. he is certainly somebody who could exhibit the propensity to go in that direction. so, i think we are all incredibly lucky. and certainly, that homeowner's, and his family, are lucky that it didn't go that way. but that could happen at any moment, of these days that the search continues. it seems that he is moving at night and, probably, laying low during the day, which would be the smart way to do it. but he has got to keep repeating this activity of trying to supply himself with sustenance and some level of shelter. it is a very wooded area with large homes on large pieces of property surrounded by woodlands and manicured lawns and things like that. so, there is plenty of places for him to side hide. the simple fact that he was able to get beyond their announced perimeter into kind of the next section south of that area tells you that his sense of movement has not been impeded yet. i think they are doing the right thing in flooding the area with personnel to try to pin him in. but, so far, it's been unsuccessful. >> the schools are closing in the area. this is somebody, by the way, based on the crime he was convicted, committed a homicide, a brutal, one in front of children, and with the lack of sleep, the stress factors that might be at play here, the danger could grow exponentially. john miller, there are about 200 to 250 personnel on the ground who are now searching for him. as they are talking about closing that perimeter, he was just south of one -- they are talking about the psychology that they are trying to use now, including his own mother's voice-over audio that is being broadcast in the area they believe him to be in, hoping that might lead to a peaceful surrender. what do you make of the psychology and now involved in trying to get him to surrender? >> i think the psychology is, they know that, at some point, he is going to run out of gas. he's going to run out of the ability to stay awake, the ability to go with little food. and they want to make sure he does run out of gas by the message they keep sending him, which is, it will just be easier to surrender peacefully. listen to us. if not us, listen to your mother. and remember who is doing, this laura. rob clark, the guy you were just talking to, is not just a deputy u.s. marshal. he's head of the philadelphia regional fugitive task force. this is what he does for a living. he and his team are men hunters. they are extraordinarily expert in this field. you've got george given from the state police, who you mentioned. george was the guy behind the hunt for durham, who escaped in july from the one county jail. more notably, he was key in the 48-day, 12 million dollar hunt for eric frontline, which ended in a giant shoot out there. a trooper was, tragically, killed. this team -- they know what they are doing and they know how to do this. it is taking longer than they would like. but a day is longer than -- i have a lot of confidence that they are going to get this done and in relative soon. >> john miller and andrew mccabe, thank you. it may just be a matter of time. thank you both. we have got some breaking news tonight on another of the criminal cases against former president trump. this one is in d.c., right here. next, we will tell you exactly why special counsel jack smith says that trump is threatening to, quote, prejudice the jury pool, even before one has been chosen. what could that mean for trial? 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[exhales] easy to apply for the whole family. vicks vapostick and try vaposhower for steamy vicks vapors. >> all right. a crucial hearing is just now hours away in fulton county georgia. judge scott mcafee saying today, the hearing, tomorrow, he will address, scheduling for the trial and the georgia election subversion case. it's all happening tomorrow. the question is whether or not the case should be broken up. remember, there are 19 defendants after all. joining me now to discuss this and what it could mean for the trial is national security attorney bradley moss and jim neill jaffer jamil jaffer, former counsel to george h. w. bush. -- 19 defendants, all at once, and -- within six months, fani willis said, maybe lawyers chuckled not because it was impossible to do so but you are thinking about the logistics here. this is a -- actually a part of the entire thing yet. is it practical to think this could actually be a trial with 19 people in the courtroom not broken up? >> i think it's very unlikely at this point, and not just because of mark meadows. you've also got jeff clark. you've also got speedy trial requests from kenneth chesebro and from sydney powell. you've got any number of free trial fights that don't trump is going to bring. you've got rudy giuliani's likely challenges over information. this is going to be a logistical mess. and so, it will be interesting to see tomorrow is one of the things that judge asked fani willis to be prepared for is, if you were to do 19, how much time would you realistically need? it's not happening october for all 19. i'm sorry, there's just no way it's going to realistically. abbott >> -- wants it. to your point, about a speedy trial, it could work -- if the prosecutor said it was only up to her maybe it could, right? but it's not. it's also the defendants you can, say i want to go fast. and others are saying, i don't want to hear anything about october nothing about 2023. >> that's exactly right. the president has made clear that he does not want this trial to go forward anytime soon. and he is going to do everything he can to throw sand in the gears, the former president, and slow this thing down and make motions and try to get appeals rolling. he is going to have a very hard time doing that. but he will -- everything you can at. that now, i think this whole kenneth chesebro move and sidney powell seeking a rapper, trial speedy trial, is going to cause problems as well because now that they have moved for, they have to have their trial down on their under georgia law will begin by dates or, in early november. that means that at least some part of this is going to roll out. that means that evidence is going to be in front of a jury pool and in front of the american public regardless of what donald trump wants or doesn't want to terms of his timing. >> it's televised, right? that's -- what always, as revolution will be televised, that's not -- about this, of course. although maybe the revolution will be televised. i just don't. no but when it comes to the actual trial, it will in fact be televised. and you are. write the jury pool will be impacted by what they are seeing. and, can you -- i've had multiple codefendant cases. you know what happens when one is not there? they go, look who is not here. and we point to the empty seat and they say, oh, that is who really did it. so, if you are trump, if you are anyone going after the original people who might go first, you kind of nervous? >> yeah. because, with this trial, if this happens in late october, early november, which has well and -- the sidney powell -- it's going to basically be a preview of everything that will come out eventually in the trial of donald trump. fani willis will be able to bring up any number of the witnesses. she does have to bring out all of, them because these two people aren't the entire conspiracy, there parts and pieces of. it but she can trot out any number of those individuals and show it on live television. it will be oj exploded exponentially in terms of media coverage. and it will all play out just as we are still getting closer and closer to the first primaries, and the first caucuses. >> you know, if it's like okay -- everyone thinks about oj and i think about -- or driving behind, following the white bronco. i remember oj as a months long voir dire and hours long of people having -- qualified to be jury the jurors, and that was a case that captured the national attention. this might even be more known to some degree. let's just play for a second, fellas, what it is broken up? how is it broken up? are you looking along who have similar charges? is it, who are the lawyers? first the -- is at the state employees? how is that broken down? >> well, look. at a minimum, you have got to get these two speedy trial requests done with and moving at the beginning. now, who else comes along with that, i think, is a hard question. but you can also divide this up into a variety of ways. you laid out a couple. i think at the end of the day, with the way this plays out is, fani willis could try and get as many of these done as you can as quickly as possible. she wants to get her heavens out there. he wants to put it on the table and get some convictions in the books so everyone else starts flipping and, ultimately, turns and points the finger at the former president. >> is it harder, though -- this is a reit okay. silver, whole thing is, this is one big criminal enterprise. i can imagine if he is trying to build that, you want everyone to be in a room where it is happening. you want to be able to say, here are the people now. the georgia dome is not available. -- i don't think, for this trial. but you want him, conceptually, to be around for this moment. if that is the case, does this actually -- it doesn't go altogether, is her case undermined? >> i don't think so. because she can still -- the various overt acts that she outlines in the indictment, any number of witnesses that she can bring out, she can still show the larger overarching conspiracy. and she can basically trot out and practice what she would ultimately put forward in a case against the former president. she is going to get all of these witnesses out there. they are going to deal with cross-examination. she will see what worked and did not work, and if they get the convictions, it is almost certain that some of these, people some of these codefendants, will start to flip and seek deals. it will only put more pressure on donald trump. >> this my don't explain in part, why jack smith said, i will take one defended, alex, for 200, and -- that was a jeopardy reference -- that's fine. but having it be in washington d.c., with one defendant, and now they are in front of that judge, judge chutkan. and what they thought might happen, they're now saying, in the filing tonight, in fact has happened, that he has tempered with the jury pool, he is making extra judicial statements of some kind. we don't know all of the details of it. this, of course, chat can warned, could lead to an earlier trial date, if true. what her ruling today was to have a hearing in the future talking about how one posted on the docket. where are we going with? this >> look, this is a whole train wreck and filings. so, apparently, the government this morning made some sort of a filing under seal, it referencing the sensitive materials. and they also made their filing to seal that filing -- all this -- is on the docket. she granted the motion. and then, all of a sudden, come sailing in from the right-hand side, the defendant saying, look, we didn't get a chance to object to the. she vacature order, let them file a response, and has a -- schedule. sure. a very quick one. but she's given them a chance to have a bite at the apple and said to everybody, look -- making these filings. so, it's clear that you have -- it well, you have to at least say whether you did it or not confirm. so, it's a little bit of a complicated procedure here. but at the end of the day, the point is, she is going to move this thing along. she is going to give everybody a fair shot where this thing is going, that march 4th date, is still on the books. >> some people ask how many bites once you get the apple. if you are theoretically intimidating witnesses, it's tampering with a jury. pool >> part of it here, let's be honest, donald trump, he's the former president. the government is going to give him every benefit of the doubt here. the judge is no doubt going to -- sanctioning, gagging, censoring a former president. but it will be interesting to see, once we finally see this underlying motion, was and this was all motions about talking about a discussion about a discussion -- what was it that they were bringing up? what was the relief they were seeking? and, if it was in fact related to his posts, where they seeking some type of pretrial violation? that is what everyone wants to know now. >> of course, little does everyone know that most of the laws about motion practice, everyone bradley moss. and jameel jaffer. by the, way the reference was gil scott hehr and. i know my stuff, thank you. see, daddy? i listen. -- on the offensive with a multi million dollar ad campaign. will it win him more support with the election on the horizon. we will talk about, next. 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bidenomics. can he actually win without turning that 37% number around? >> i think he has to, to the extent that anyone even cares about policy anymore, who knows. but in terms of the economy, he has to start selling that story. because, look -- the best thing you can say about trump's he goes out and constantly talks about how great the economy was under him. he actually is one of the only president that left office with less jobs than what he came in with. and, look, i don't necessarily approve of democratic economic theory. but what i will say is, i think joe biden has a pretty solid case to make. and he has to do it. he has to make it repeatedly. i hate that politics is starting this early. i mean, it doesn't stop anymore. but he really needs to be making his case. so, from a tactical perspective, i think he's doing the right thing. >> i was going to say democracy can be one long run on sentence sometimes between elections. but, bakari sellers, in terms of trying to sell it -- messaging words or something more here? the u.s. has seen inflation and unemployment drop during biden's first term. it also saw some historic highs because of covid disruption. so, the convincing kind of things, how does he do a better job of convincing people to feel that things are getting better? >> i think that is the trick. and when you talk about things like inflation, you have to realize that what happened in the united states with inflation did not happen in a vacuum. it was a global problem that we saw the inflation reduction act. we saw the infrastructure bill -- both pieces of legislation. we've seen bidenomics actually work. now, this is not going to be a national election either. and so, joe biden has to sell his message in georgia, arizona, wisconsin, michigan, pennsylvania, those states which are going to drive the electoral college and, even more specifically, he's going to have to drive this message to african american voters, particularly african american men, and hispanic voters. because, while criminal justice reform and all these other things may be what some of his white progressive vendors may tell him, we do know that economic matters to the subgroups as well. and you have to drill down on pocketbook issues. and i believe he has a message to tell. he has a story to tell. but i think adam would agree with me on this point, that you can't tell that story from 1600 pennsylvania. you literally have to get out on the road. you have to pound pavement. you have to kiss the babies and shake the hands and do all of those things that politicians are notoriously known to do. and he is going to have to allow -- or other people around him -- are going to have to allow joe biden to be joe biden. that comes with faux pas and mistakes and all. but he is going to have to sell this message outside of d.c.. >> and don't forget the pancake breakfast. that might be a very sticky baby kiss. but, you know, it's different. and -- my thing about. it but, listen, all that has to happen, perhaps. but also, one big hurdle, of course, here, when we get to the policy aspect of it -- and, congressman, in order to convince voters, it's one thing. but then it is getting voters to have their votes counted and how the districts are actually drawn, such that it might be advantageous for you to do so we're not. you know, tonight alabama is appealing a decision from a federal court that blocked the states congressional map after that state failed to create a second majority black district from the supreme court order, by the way. why do you think alabama is not following the court's instructions? is it a matter of, look, the supreme court court is just not respected in the same way? or they can time this out, game this out, and be able to get past the election? >> let me first say, i hated pancake breakfasts. no offense to anyone i went to a pancake breakfast -- with but the number of times i shook somebody's hand with syrup on it, i'm like, honest to god, i can't do it anymore. >> [laughter] -- it's the squelching's out. oh, my god, i can't. i'm with you! [laughter] -- >> but on the redistricting, i think alabama is just trying to run the clock here. they've been -- like, what? it's the supreme -- military in? they are going to keep doing this. this is a scary thing, by the way. when we've gotten where, donald trump, frankly, has gotten us to a point where the rule of law is kind of minimized, it is now not a big deal to basically ignore a court order. and that is a frightening thing to me. so, look, i think there has got to -- be i will say -- redistricting reform in this country. to be honest, is not going to happen any time soon in most places. i'm a victim, of it, by the way from the democrats -- they are going to keep running the clock. and this is really bad for democracy. >> bakari sellers, what do you think? not about syrup, please, but unless you have -- >> ike lemus pancake breakfasts. but i have been retired a long time. i think this goes back maybe a decade or so to shelby. we have begun to see the erosion of our democratic norms and values in the united states supreme court. i think, again, adam and i would probably agree too much for viewers liking here, but we get along, for those who really want to know. but i think we both would agree that you need nonpartisan, non elected officials to create these districts. you have that people who don't have an interest in going back to d.c. or going back to a state capital, drawing these lines. and, for a long period of time, you have had this unholy alliance between black legislators and republican colleagues, where they would take as many black folk as they could into their district, and the republican colleagues would gladly give them away. and so, finally, you have a supreme court who stood up and said, not just in alabama, but you are seeing cases like -- there is one in south carolina going. you are seeing louisiana going. we are you have that opportunity to kind of reverse this trend, reverse these bad practices, and hopefully -- the rule of law was not negotiable. and hopefully, alabama, at some point in time, will be able to draw the second district. i anticipate seeing another one in louisiana and south carolina redistricting cases meandering its way to the supreme court as well. >> adam kinzinger and bakari sellers, we will have to leave it there. thank you so much. >> thank you. >> speaking of south carolina, alex murdaugh, every one. he was convicted of few months ago, you may remember, of murdering his own wife and his son. guess what. he wants a new trial. i will tell you why, next. and smooths dry skin. wiwith 7 moisturizers and 3 vitamins, you can pay more but you can't get morere. gold bond. champion your skin. that grimy film on your teeth? dr. g? it's actually the buildup of plaque bacteria which can cause cavities. most toothpastes quit working in minutes. but crest pro-health's antibacterial fluoride protects all day. it stops cavities before they start. crest. before and bath fitter. now's the time to call bath fitter to get a beautiful after. with our unique tub over tub process, there's no mess or stress. bath fitter, it just fits. visit bathfitter.com to book your free consultation. david: as we start a new school year, there's something new happening in california's public schools. they're called community schools. leslie: it really is shared leadership with families, students, educators, and communities. jessie: i feel like we're really valued as partners. david: it's a more innovative, holistic approach. grant: in addition to academic services, we look at serving the whole family. narrator: wellness centers, food pantries, and parental education. jessie: they're already making a difference. david: california's community schools: reimagining public education. well, there is new twist tonight in the alex murdaugh case. his attorneys filing a motion today demanding a new trial on the grounds of alleged jury tampering. the motion now comes about six months after years convicted in the 2021 murders of his wife maggie and son paul. according to the filing, the clerk of the court, rebecca becky hill, allegedly tampered with the jury by advising jurors not to believe murdaugh's testimony. there are also alleging that she pressured the jury to reach a quick guilty verdict and claims that she misrepresented information to the judge in order to remove a juror. now, murdaugh's attorneys claim that hill did all of these things. why? to secure herself a book deal, they say. quote, in media appearances that would not happen in the event of a mistrial. unquote. her book is called behind the doors of justice, the murdaugh murders and it was published in late july. now, lawyers are also citing that in the motion, along with at least three sworn affidavits including one from a juror and another from a dismissed juror. now, earlier today, murdaugh's attorneys explained how they say that book i just mentioned led to this new filing. >> in the aftermath of the verdict we had received information that we needed to look into what happened in the jury room. we started down that road and we met's own of silence. when the clerk of court wrote her book, published her book, that zone of silence collapsed and jurors or upset about that. the ones we talked with, and there were more than willing to come forward and tell us things that we had sort of heard through a whisper campaign. >> cnn has reached out to hill for comment, but is yet to hear back. for more on all of this i want to bring in cnn legal analyst joey jackson. it's so good to see you, joey. there is no one better to talk about this with tonight, but i want to get right into it for everyone. listen to this motion, it actually cites the affidavit of juror number 6:30. listen to what they said. quote, that she had told the jury not to be fooled by the evidence presented by mr. murdaugh's attorneys. she also allegedly instructed the jury to watch him closely, immediately before he testified, including look at his actions and look at his movements, which understood that they thought to mean that he was guilty. if that is true, how shocking is this? >> disturbing, troubling, and outrageous. good to be with you, laura. listen, you know better than anyone that the hallmark of democracy and the judicial process is a fair trial. many watch of the trial, many maggie were riveted by the trial lasting six weeks and maybe not surprised at a three-hour verdict. but the reality is that you have to have a jury that is locked in on the evidence, making conclusions and drawing those conclusions on the evidence without any undue influence from the outside. when that undue influence comes from an elected clerk, allegedly, it presents a significant problem. so i suspect that the judge will, at a minimum, hold an evidentiary hearing to determine whether there is any meat to these allegations and, if so, we could indeed see a new trial for mr. murdaugh who we see there. >> by the, way the clerk there talking, about the role of a clerk is not somebody who just had a ceremonial. they can actually bend the ear of a judge. it's part of what they are talking about. they have contact with the jury oftentimes as well. it's not just the judge looking at this, joey, the south carolina a.g. is also reviewing the motion. what do you think is happening in their office tonight? >> yeah, i think a number of things. first of all they want to get a sense of whether or not there is any validity here. there certainly will need to be in investigation with respect to factually what this clerk was doing. as you noted it's not just a clerk administratively, this is a clerk that has access to the jury who apparently allegedly was speaking to the jury, giving them information that was adverse to mr. murdaugh we see there. and everyone has an opinion,, or about any given trial, but when you were an elected representative and you want to keep those opinions to yourself. and so i think that this motion needs to be responded to, it needs to be determined whether or not there is any basis in fact here and that is what evidentiary hearings are for. but, if in the event that this is true, what is troubling and it's not only the attorney general, or, that is looking into this, but potentially the fbi as it relates to tampering and other allegations. so i suspect that they'll respond that it is prosecutor to this motion the judge will evaluate it, the judge will call the parties in, the judge will have witnesses, and they will be determinations as to whether there is any credibility here. if there is credibility, the law centrally says, that you know, what a new trial could indeed be ordered because that is how much we value the process of fairness in this country. >> joey jackson's commentary always gives a chef's kiss everyone. nice to see you my friend. >> you are so kind, nice to see you laura, thank you so much. >> i'm telling you, so much legal news tonight. the longest prison sentence yet has been handed down today. this time for a january 6th and it was for the former proud boys chairman enrique tarrio. we will tell you just how long he has been sentenced to behind bars. 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