Transcripts For CNNW Andrew Yang CNN Presidential Town Hall 20190415

Not because they claim to know any specifics of whats in it, but just based on the guide post that they got from barrs letter a couple of weeks ago. So theyre doing that. One of the things that he told me and you all talked to your sources at the white house and Justice Department so id be curious to see what you think of this. What he said is that barr, as far as they know, has not been in touch with and in consultation with, thats a better word. Barr has not been in consultation with white House Counsel about the possibility of executive privilege, meaning any of those redactions that we expect to come because of executive privilege. So what he said is maybe there wont be a lot of redactions by executive privilege or perhaps barr will use his judgment as to what he thinks would or should be protected for executive privilege. Right. Because he said he doesnt have plans to redact on executive privilege and withhold information. And he also said in that letter that he doesnt plan on consult with the white house because the president had deferred to him. But that will be key, evan. The redactions. How much is redacted, and why . No, absolutely. Look, i think thats going to be the next stage of the political fight, right . Whatever is hidden behind those black marks, and i guess well have a color coded report so the red marks and whatever color marks, but certainly i think whatever is behind those redactions, democrats and i think republicans also are going to they want to know because i think the idea is that whatever is behind that is going to leave new lead to new questions, right . And its going to make people think, well, this is what that means. And so i think barr is approaching it from that point of view. I think he understands that. There are people inside the department who have been urging him to certainly show less because thats the tradition of the Justice Department, but i think he understands the politics of this. Its untenable for him to do less. So its going to be interesting to see. We heard, as recently as friday, that they were still working on those redactions. It looks like its coming down to the wire. Talking to white house officials, there are two main concerns or areas theyre focused on. How is Congress Going to respond . Will this report give ammunition to democrats on capitol hill . How so . And then, of course, the obstruction question. The big question, shimon, what the report could reveal about muellers obstruction inquiry. So many questions. Why didnt he make a decision . And what else is was part of the obstruction probe that hasnt already been out there that barr alluded to . When you look at what barr wrote in the fourpage letter he put out, you could kind of see where things may be heading in terms of obstruction and what hes going to release. Much of what he has said in this letter, much of what was the subject of this investigation, this obstruction investigation. The obstruction investigation got its own second part in this entire Mueller Report. The first part focused on the collusion, and the second part barr said focused on the obstruction. And they looked at a lot of different aspects of the obstruction investigation, barr said. Most of which, and this came from that letter, has been the subject of public reporting. So some of it we may already know about. Its going to come down to a question of how did the mueller team see it. How did they see these various potential acts of obstruction because he did, barr, in his letter, say each of the relevant actions as it related to obstruction was investigated. And that mueller looked at both sides of the issues. So perhaps were going to get an explanation from the way mueller the mueller team saw it and the difficult issues. Remember, barr kept referring in this letter about the difficult issues and intent. The difficult issues of the law and the facts surrounding the obstruction investigation. Our hope is that we learn more about what these difficult issues were. Not so much we may not learn so much of what each person that was interviewed may have said to the investigators, to the mueller investigators but certainly the facts and the issues surrounding the obstruction investigation, we should get a better what led to what is effectively a hung jury, right, within the mueller Prosecutorial Team about the notion of obstruction. Thats such a great way to put it. No, it is. Hung jury. As we try to set expectations, one thing we have to keep in mind is he did say theres going to be evidence on both sides. This could be complicated, nuanced. It may not just be a one line headline of what it all means. On obstruction, it could be very nuanced. And barr, i want to get your reaction, evan, to what the attorney general said in questions with senator leahy on the idea of obstruction. Take a listen. Did he express any expectation, any interest in leaving the obstruction decision to congress . He didnt say that to me, no. So he said the obstruction decision should be up to you . He didnt say that either. But thats generally how the department of justice works. Is that true . It is. I mean, look. Theres been a lot of conjecture about that, the idea that, well, mueller didnt make a decision so why is the attorney general inserting himself . Actually, hes the boss. We have a special counsel that reports to the attorney general, and thats the law that congress wrote. And if they want to change it, then they can do that, but for now, that is the law. The other thing that i think barr is alluding to and what the president is seizing on is the idea that because its a this is what prosecutors do, right . They make recommendations to bring charges. And then if they dont, then you can say that thats a declination. Thats why the president is seizing on this as a total exoneration because in the end, mueller decided not to bring charges, and i think that is everything for him. It is. You know, and the white house, you heard Sarah Sanders say today, case is closed. But heres the thing. Theres a difference between making a decision on whether theres sufficient evidence to pursue prosecution and whether behavior is, you know, moral, ethical, impeachable. Right. Even though this chapter is closing, there is a new chapter. And the president s behavior will likely be under more scrutiny with this report, dana. Youre absolutely right. Weve talked about this. On the eve of this coming out, its important to underscore that theres a very different bar, one r for prosecuting somebody, and for bringing charges against somebody in a court as opposed to looking down the road of impeachment which is an inherently political decision. Yes, there is a line in the constitution that talks about what should constitute impeachment. The idea of impeachment proceedings starting. But it is up to the majority in the house of representatives to decide whether or not, whatever it is that they see and hear with regard to things that the president did that were untoward, may be going up to the line of being illegal, anything in that realm, whether that should lead to impeachment proceedings. And then theres thats whether its worth it or whether it should happen and then theres the whether they should politically do that when we are a yearplus away from an election when the voters are going to have their say. Exactly. Again, theres a difference between legally what you can do and then to the naked eye what it looks like. I was talking to someone who said on the obstruction front, it very well could look like it if you read through the report. Mueller has been weaving together these different behaviors, things the president has said to make the case. Lets listen to some of the questionable things the president has said. Regardless of recommendation, i was going to fire comey. Knowing there was no good time to do it. I said to myself, i said, you know, this russia thing with trump and russia is a madeup story. Its an excuse. The attorney general made a terrible mistake when he did this and when he recused himself. Michael cohen is lying. Hes a weak person. Its very sad whats happened to paul, the way hes being treated. Ive never seen anybody treated so poorly. No, i have not offered any pardons. I think they asked or whatever, would you . I said im not taking anything off the table. Its probably president ial harassment, and we know how to handle that. Theres been no collusion. After two years, no collusion. So heres the thing, though, you know, barrs letter said that the public only knows about most, not all of the events. What we just heard there, those are things weve been covering as part of this investigation. Thats the stuff we know about. Its what we dont know about that well be looking for. Certainly, thats going to be the big thing that were going to go through this and try to find aspects of this investigation of the ways in which mueller looked at some of the things the president said. Not only the president , others perhaps on his team. Witnesses who may have come in and said this is the conversation that was ongoing around the president , around people. We may we may get a window into that. We may not know who the people are that said these things but i think the big thing is for us will be to understand how was mueller thinking . And why was he thinking the way he was thinking in terms of this investigation . And what is it . Where are the hangups . What is it that they couldnt prove in terms of obstruction and whether or not it was criminal or enough to bring charges . And perhaps this issue that there was information on both sides of the equation. Thats going to be very interesting. Don mcgahn is one of the more interesting witnesses. Well look for some of what he said to mueller because i think that, obviously, a lot of the white House Counsel. Right, the former white House Counsel who was witness to some of what we now know were reported things that looked like obstruction, right, and ended up being not enough to bring charges. I think 1one of the things im going to be looking for its one thing to read this in the media and another to see what did they say to investigators. What did don mcgahn if he can get his voice from this report, that will be fascinating. Im curious what you think, dana, in term s of how this coud shape public perception. Is it already baked in from the fourpage barr letter to congress . This will be the first time well be looking at muellers words. Barr didnt use much of his language in the letter though he said he used a fair amount. Thats the key question politically. Is whether or not it is baked in or whether or not what we end up seeing in the Mueller Report, particularly on obstruction, is so different and paints much so much of a broader, more robust picture than we have just in the one line that it could sway public opinion. My gut tells me that its baked in and that, you know, this issue of russia has the people who love donald trump saying its just who cares . And the people who dont like donald trump saying this is the biggest deal in the world. And the question is, are there even any people in the middle now . Right. And we dont know the answer to that right now. We certainly dont know the answer. And another interesting thing as we wrap up, theres so much focus on obstruction. Its dominated our conversation. But even on collusion. You know, barr never said there is no evidence. We could learn a fair amount more about other interactions and conversations. There is still a lot to learn on that front as well. So were all going to be reading the report this week, according to the attorney general. All right, thank you, dana bash, evan perez and shimon prokupecz. Coming up, let the spin begin. Even before the Mueller Report drops, the word from the white house is apparently, been there, done that. New reporting just ahead. There goes our first big order. 44, 45, 46. How many of these did they order . Ooh, thats hot. You know, we could sell these. Nah. We dont bake. Opportunity. What we deliver by delivering. There is wisdom in how nature protects and it inspired an allnew toothpaste from burts bees®. It fights cavities and freshens breath. Made with ingredients you can trust. 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Tonight, a Trump Administration official telling cnn the white house is confident that whatever comes out in the Mueller Report this week, it will not change the big takeaway from this investigation. No finding of the Trump Campaign conspiring with russia. That echoed by press secretary Sarah Sanders this morning. I dont think it is going to be damaging to the president because the entire purpose of the investigation was whether or not there was collusion. Mueller was Crystal Clear on the fact there was no collusion but he wasnt Crystal Clear on obstruction. But any american, they couldnt find anything. They couldnt make a determination which is muellers way legally of saying, we cant find anything. Were going to leave that up to the process, which is the attorney general. He has made a decision, and so we consider this to be case closed. Joining me now to discuss, cnn chief media correspondent Brian Stelter and jackie kucinich. Great to see both of you. Jackie, i want to start with you just about this white house strategy of case closed as we just heard from Sarah Sanders. Do you think thats the rice approach given that there is still a lot we dont know and could learn in this report released this week . The president and his team are really good at sloganeering and pushing out a narrative and having all of their allies push out the same narrative and saying it over and over and over again, whether or not its true. And weve seen this many times in this white house. So whether or not its the right strategy, that remains to be seen but its something thats worked for them in the past. And they are going to keep doing it. And brian, politico had some good color on all of this quoting one white house official who said, in 400 pages, theres bound to be something the media will spin as embarrassing for the president and then that will be the story. But will it be collusion . Will it be obstruction . Will it be conspiracy . Will it be criminality . No, no, no and no, but it may not be so clearcut, right . Especially on obstruction when the attorney general, quoting barr, said there was sorry, the attorney general quoting mueller said there was evidence on both sides. Yeah, and the president wants to fight this on collusion grounds, on these words repeated for a couple years. Even though mueller was never told to look into collusion, per se. He was told to look into russian interference and potential conspiracy. Those were kinds of crimes. Collusion is a word the president will keep going back to. This is so much more complicated and nuanced than that. Most americans are not buying what the white house is selling when the president repeats his talking points over and over. Most americans are still relatively openminded when it comes to this subject, although they probably want to see this concluded. When this report comes out, whats most important is we focus on what it says, not what the partisans are saying it says. Not what the spin is. In fact, im going to try not to listen to anybody that hasnt read all 400 pages first. Its easier said than done. I realize thats. Focus on what the report actually says. I want to follow on that. To be clear. So you think the perception isnt necessarily baked in on a broader scale . Because thats one of the key questions i was just talking to dana about. I think theres a third of the country that definitely relies on President Trump for news about President Trump. Thats what the scholar jay rosen is described as a closed information loop. When you rely on the president s twitter feed for all your news about trump youll get a certain narrative about russia and all of this. But what the polls show is most americans are not existing in that closed information loop. All right. Jackie, i want to switch gears here a little bit because at the same time, there is this battle over the Mueller Report, theres also a congressional battle overseeing the president s tax returns. This is what Sarah Sanders said about that. I dont think congress particularly not this group of congressmen and women are smart enough to look through the thousands of pages that i would assume that President Trumps taxes will be. My guess is most of them dont do their own taxes, and i certainly dont trust them to look through the decades of success that the president has and determine anything. Hes filled out hundreds of pages in a Financial Disclosure form. So what is your take . This is a new line here from Sarah Sanders as far as i know of congress not being smart enough to look through the tax returns. I dont think congress is going to appreciate that, but there isnt a lot of love between democrats and congression democrats, particularly House Democrats and the white house. So this sort of war of words and petty name calling, it just kind of is that, right . Like theyre not smart enough to do that. That said, it will be interesting if the administration is able to Block Congress on this. David k. Johnson wrote for the daily beast over the weekend that the law here is pretty cut and dry. And there really isnt a lot of wiggle room on that mnuchin has to not hand over these tax returns. So it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks on what he tells Congress Since he said hes not going to necessarily meet their april deadlines, but he said yesterday that there were or today, it all blends. That there will be that there will be a response of some sort to congress soon. Brian, i want to give final word to you. Whats your reaction . Our colleague Eric Levenson has a great piece that points out there are ten accountants in congress. Three are Certified Public Accountants so i would guarantee theyd beg to differ with Sarah Sanders on whether they can handle these complicated tax returns or not. Brian, jackie, thanks so much. And coming up a look back at the attorney generals long record in washington and why its raising questions of whether his loyalty is to his boss more than his country. Well be back. For a nasty cold, take dayquil severe with vicks vapocool. Whoa and vaporize it with an intense rush of vicks vapors. Ahhhhhhhhhh dayquil severe with vicks vapocool. The daytime, coughing, stuffy head, vaporize your cold, medicine. I felt i couldnt be at my best wifor my family. C, in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured and left those doubts behind. I faced reminders of my hep c every day. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. Even hanging with friends i worried about my hep c. But in only 8 weeks with mavyret, i was cured. Mavyret is the only 8week cure for all common types of hep c. 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As all of washington waits to see how much the attorney general will redact from Robert Muellers final report, its important to note barr came to the job with a long pedigree at the Justice Department, including serving as attorney general once before. Well, for some, it was reason to give him the benefit of the doubt, but for others, that record was reason to question whether barr would put serving his boss ahead of the national interest. Cnns randi kaye reports. Reporter attorney general William Barrs performance this week isnt the first time hes aligned himself with the president he is serving. Thank you, mr. President. Reporter go back nearly 30 years to barrs first stint as attorney general under president george h. W. Bush. New york times columnist william sapphire, a conservative republican, often referred to barr then not as attorney general but as the coverup general. Suggesting he covered up bushs role in iraqgate, burying the investigation of how the Bush Administration allegedly helped finance saddam husseins weapons. Barr also played a role in the iran contra affair, convincing president bush just before christmas in 1992 to pardon six former members of the reagan administration, including former defense secretary Casper Weinberger who was set to go to trial for allegedly lying to congress. The pardons at barrs urging essentially shut down the independent counsels investigation, leading some to call it a miscarriage of justice. In 2001, barr was asked about the pardons. His response . The iran contra ones i certainly did not oppose any of them. Also telling in barrs history is this 19page unsolicited memo barr wrote to the Justice Department in june last year before trump nominated him. In it, barr criticizes the Mueller Investigation calling muellers obstruction of justice fate lally misconceived. Its what he was hired to do which is to protect the president. But it is deeply concerning. Reporter back in 2017, barr also raised eyebrows telling the New York Times there was more basis for investigating the sale of uranium between the u. S. And russia while Hillary Clinton was secretary of state than the Trump Campaigns alleged collusion with russia. But when barr said it, the fbi had already investigated the uranium one deal and no evidence has ever been made public showing proof of a bribery scheme or wrongdoing. Barr later walked back his claims. I have no knowledge of the uranium one. I didnt particularly think that was necessarily something that should be pursued aggressively. Reporter meanwhile, if you think william barr may be too close to the president , consider this. His soninlaw works in the white House Counsels office. The soninlaws role is troubling, says the former director of the office of government ethics, because, quote, it raises further questions about barrs independence. Randi kaye, cnn, new york. Coming up the man who succeeded kenneth star and issued the final report on the whitewater scandal joins me with his take on the impending Mueller Report. Stay right there. Nooooo. Noooo. Nooooo. Yeeeesss. Quick, the quicker picker upper bounty picks up messes quicker and is 2x more absorbent than the leading ordinary brand. Hey look, i got it. Bounty, the quicker picker upper. We need a solution. Ut their phones down. Introducing. Smartdogs. The first dogs trained to train humans. Stopping drivers from liking. Selfieing. And whatever this is. Available to the public. Never. Smartdogs are not the answer. But geico has a simple tip. Turn on do not disturb while driving mode. Brought to you by geico. Our new, hot, fresh breakfast will get you the readiest. buzzer sound holiday inn express. 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But the basic question i think for the public is, are we going to get the gist of this or is it going to be on january of 2015 and then and then you have to flip 15 pages to find the next text . Youll get more than the gist. You will get more than the gist. All right. Joining me now, robert wray, the man who succeeded kenneth starr. He issued the final reports on the whitewater scandal and the bill Clinton Monica lewinsky scandal. Nice to be with you. Yes, wonderful. So if it seems this report is politically redacted, does mueller have a responsibility in your view to stand up and tell the American People what really happened . Its up to the attorney general in the first instance. I think everybody should withhold judgment and make their own evaluation from the report that we expect will be released probably monday or tuesday. You know, redactions notwithstanding to support the conclusions that the attorney general has already issued that bob muellers investigation was not able to substantiate russia collusion and that there was insufficient evidence to proceed with regard to the president involving obstruction of justice. I think there will be enough in the report that is released in order to make an intelligent evaluation of the, both bob muellers conclusion and the attorney generals conclusion of the investigation. Im curious, during the hearing, did it surprise you that the attorney general said he doesnt plan on withholding information based on executive privilege . I think that was news. Obviously, you know, there remain other bases to withhold information. The most significant of which, and that remains, is grand jury information which would otherwise require a court order and a very unusual set of circumstances before a court would ever order the release of grand jury material in this instance over the department of justices objection. So i think theres that. I think we all understand i think everybody does on both sides of the political divide that National Security information and sources and methods, youre going to have to find another way in order to get congress that information. Its obviously not going to be through the public release of the report. They may be able to do that in a followup session, which the attorney general indicated he was not opposed to, to work with congress about Getting Congress that information in closed session. And then i think, finally, no one wants to see the that any pending investigations would be jeopardized by virt uvedisclosure of information in the report so that would have to be withheld at least temporarily. So what did you think of mueller ending this investigation without ever speaking to President Trump . And do you expect an explanation of that to be in this report . I think that you can expect that there is probably an explanation in the report over the span of the 22month investigation about what their determination or calculation was about why they did not seek to subpoena the president s testimony. And i can just offer you, based on conspiracy, my own sense of that is that that would have resulted in a constitutional question that would have been opposed by the president s lawyers and probably the white house. It would have resulted in litigation and that litigation would have, in my experience, have taken months and would have substantially delayed the investigation with no sure sense that it would have prevailed in the end. The case law appears to be fairly clear in the d. C. Circuit that, unless theres no other way to obtain the information, really, the president , his office and his functioning in our constitutional system is unique. He should not have to labor under a grand jury subpoena while in office and that there were, i think, in this investigation, as weve seen, much of what went on in public, other people who were prepared to offer testimony with regard to the president s conduct. So again, my sense is, wait until the report comes out. I think well have, probably, an answer and an explanation to the question that youve just raised. Yeah, the president s lawyer said repeatedly that, look, they dont need to sit down with him because they have all this information. Theyve done all these witness interviews and millions of documents. On the other hand, the other side argues in order to understand his intent, you have to talk to him. Thats something well be looking for an explanation of sorts. Robert ray, thank you for coming on. Thanks for having me. Coming up, the counter report to the Mueller Report. What the white house is preparing for the moment its out. Memories. What we deliver by delivering. Plants capture co2. What if other kinds of plants captured it too . If these industrial plants had technology that captured carbon like trees we could help lower emissions. Carbon capture is Important Technology and experts agree. Thats why were working on ways to improve it. So plants. Can be a little more. Like plants. With a lot of other young couples. Then we noticed something. Strange. Oh, could you, uh, make me a burger . Poof youre a burger. [ laughter ] everyone acts like their parents. You have a tattoo. Yes. Fun. Do you not work . 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And is it wise to scrap the bit about collusion because, after all, barrs letter summarizing muellers findings says there wasnt a finding of collusion but that doesnt mean theres not unseemly or damning information as it pertains to a conspiracy. They must feel confident about the collusion issue not to raise that in the counterreport. And the big question out there and what democrats have been spinning from day one is, whats the there, there on the issue of obstruction . And thats clearly something that Rudy Giuliani and the team wants to address. So, do you think, in talking to white house officials, there is this sense of, okay, were good. Look, the bottom line findings are in our favor, in their view, even though mueller punted on obstruction but barr cleared him. Do you think they should be more concerned, and what kind of preparation do you foresee being under way in anticipation of this report, not knowing exactly whats in it, but also knowing its not probably going to be as favorable as the fourpage letter that barr sent to congress . Its very hard, as you can imagine, to summarize a 400page report in four pages and not leave out some things that are going to be juicy tidbits for your opposition. So i do think theres going to be more coming. Theres going to be more that might be problematic and none of this, by the way, is going to get in the way of all of this houseled investigations that will ensue. So i think that look. The fact is the narrative has been controlled by the trump folks. Its been controlled by the attorney general. He got a jump on everyone else. And he really has dictated the terms of the discussion to this point. That, of course, may change as the facts are more fully disclosed. And again, as the house committees begin to get into it, there will be demands for more information. There will be subpoenas issued. There will be fights over them, and i think, by the way, that though we can absolutely count on plenty of this material being redacted, a lot of it is still going to come out because eventually courts are going to require it come out because of those house committees have legitimate interest in having access to various parts of the report. Its interesting, jim, talking to white house officials. They are less concerned about what the public is going to think with the release of this report. And more focused on, will anything in this report give ammunition to democrats on the hill . Like jerry nadler. What is he going to seize on . What are others going to seize on . Do you think thats a fair concern . I think jacks right. Theres going to be little nuggets in there theyll try to get their hands on and put their best spin on it. Weve already seen that with him attacking barrs letter, initial letter, and the determinations that both he and rod rosenstein. I think its very important, rod rosenstein, to the democrats and members of congress on the democratic side, was the savior of the Mueller Investigation. Now he comes out with his own legal conclusions along with barr, and now all of a sudden, hes the goat. Cant have it both ways. You bring up rod rosenstein. Hes been a key figure in all of this. Hes publicly defending attorney general william barr through his criticism, through all the criticism of his handling of the Mueller Report. Rosenstein telling the wall street journal on thursday, hes being as forthcoming as he can. So this notion that hes trying to mislead people, i think is completely bizarre. But rosenstein refused to tell the journal how or why muellers findings do not clearly answer the obstruction question as barr summarized. What do you think . Is this a nowin situation for bill barr . Like no matter how he handles this, hes just going to be criticized . Or do you think he has a point . Well, he is going to be criticized. Again, it is inevitable that his very brief summary left out some important things. And he says that was never meant to be a summary of the report. It was just meant to lay out the key findings. Im sorry. Im sorry, but thats his fault. Thats top line findings. He chose to put it out there. He has to live with it. But again, i think, by the way, in an effort to get control of the narrative it was worth taking the flack for whatever may follow in terms of criticism of things that were left out. Again, Winston Churchill said what is it . A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth gets its pants on . I think thats the case here. I mean, look, it was critically important for the team trump to get hold of the story, the narrative to shape how this is going to be covered. Will it last . That remains to be seen. And its its going to depend almost entirely on what was left out, what comes out in the coming days, weeks, and months, and thats going to have a lot to do with where these committees go and what theyre able to turn up in these investigations. Barr needed to get out there ahead of this from the beginning. He was like the dad in a car on his way to disney with the kids in the back. Kids in the back, dad, when are we going to get there, dad, when are we going to get there . Were going to get there when its time. It takes as much time as it takes to get there. I think what he needed to do was get out ahead of it a little bit to give the kids in the back seat a little bit to a little bit before they got there in terms of information. Well see. Were going to be able to see the report with redactions as barr said so well be able to judge for ourselves how truthful, forthcoming, he was in the fourpage letter. Jack quinn, jim schultz, thank you so much. Thank you. We do appreciate it. 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The president has today requested and accepted the resignation of john dean from his position of the white House Counsel. Okay. Good evening. In recent months, members of my administration and officials of the committee for the reelection of the president , including some of my closest friends, and most trusted aides, have been charged with involvement in what has come to be thoknown as the watergate affair. In any organization, the man at the top must bear the responsibility. That responsibility, therefore, belongs here in this office. I accept it. And i pledge to you tonight from this office that i will do everything in my power to ensure that the guilty are brought to justice and that such abuses are purged from our political processes in the years to come long after i have left this office. And joining me now, cnn president ial historian and former director of the nixon president ial library, timothy naf talal naftali. Thanks for coming on, tim. When the watergate story first broke, it wasnt something a majority of the public was was paying attention to. What was the Tipping Point . Well, the Senate Watergate hearings in the early part of 1973 riveted the country. They were covereded pretty much gavel to gavel, and it was at those hearings that the public heard from john dean, a member of the president s inner circle, who said the president was, himself, involved in the coverup and it was at those hearings the public then learned that we could test whether john dean was telling the truth or not because the president had taped most of his conversations. So the public saw watergate unfold in front of them then a few months later the president fires the special prosecutor and creates what is now known as, was known then, as the saturday night massacre. The public was very much watching watergate unfold like some kind of tragedy and that continued until the president resigned in august of 1974. President nixon, as you well know, he was defiant to the end, combative with the press, and of course, we remember his famous i am not a crook speech. How was he able to keep up that facade for so long . Because most americans want to believe their president. When john dean said the president was part of the coverup, a lot of americans didnt believe him. It was his word against a man who had won in a landslide victory in 1972. It took a lot of it took a long time for that respect for nixon to erode. Part of it eroded because nixon released these transcripts of tapes that had been requested by the special prosecutor, and the public was dis was really disappointed in the amorality of his language and then when nixon said time and again, i was not involved in the coverup, and the Supreme Court forced the president to release tapes and those tapes showed that he was part of the coverup, the transcripts did, the public lost whatever respect it had for nixon. By the end of his presidency, he was only supported by a little over 20 of the American People, and he had lost the complete support of republicans and democrats in congress. He was forced out. He had no place to go. He would have been removed by the senate. Theres little doubt of that. And its interesting because so many historians and experts believed that, you know, he was qualified to be president and its amazing just to see that fall from grace. Pamela, he committed crimes against the American People. He abused his power. Congress decided that they had a constitutional duty to get rid of him. And he left. All right. That summed it up. Timothy naftali, thank you. Thank you, pamela. The final episode of tricky dick airs next right here on cnn. And that does it for me. Im pamela brown. Have a great night. It all started in the Early Morning hours of june 17th when on the sixth floor of the building behind me, five men with electronic gear were caught in the offices of the Democratic National committee. The building is called the watergate. Arrested at gunpoint, the five suspect had with them bugs and microphones. Just who wanted to listen in to