Transcripts For CNNW Anderson Cooper 360 20201219

Hbo max. Thanks for watching. Our coverage tcontinues. The breaking news, tonight. There are now two covid vaccines approved for emergency use, in this country. The fda gave the green light, just moments ago, to modernas version. We are now just waiting for the cdc to sign off on it. John berman here, in for anderson. We will talk more, in a moment, about how important this is with the pandemic now projected to claim 562,000 lives, by april. First, though, the president s silence, or even worse than silence, in the face of this largely avoidable, human tragedy. Nearly, 2,300 new deaths rort d reported so far, tonight. Covid is now the countrys leading cause of death, according to the university of washingtons institute for Health Metrics and evaluation. They are the folks behind that 562,000fatality projection which, itself, is up by more than 60,000, since the last model. Whats more, this new one predicts that, between now and april, 49 states will experience high or extreme stress on icu capacity, and that deaths per day will exceed 3,750. Thats about one life lost, every 23 seconds. Which is why Health Officials say its so important to take every precaution, for yourself and others, until mass vaccination can do its job. The health of your family, your neighbors, and your community first. Practice good hygiene. Wash your hands. Practice social distancing or wear a mask whenever its indicated, or whenever youre unable to practice distance. Thats the Vice President , after getting vaccinated, today. Sending the right message about prevention. So, did house speaker, nancy pelosi. And Senate Majority leader, Mitch Mcconnell. There, with his proof, of vaccination. Not so, the president , because although he did send out a tweet praising fedex and ups for delivering the vaccine, he didnt roll up his sleeve for it. Perhaps, it was the bone spurs. He, also, retweeted messages, skeptical of mask wearing. But nothing about the skyrocketing death toll, or the millions out of work, losing benefits, or facing eviction. Nothing, in fact, to suggest he cares, in the least, about anything but overturning the election he lost. The president has not been seen, in public, all week. Hes done next to nothing in public, for weeks. He spent nine days on the golf course, most recently last sunday. So, yeah, hes checked out. Not that it should come as a shock, though. Hes been this way, for months. False sense of security. Right now, i think its under control. How . A thousand americans are dying, a day. They are dying. Thats true. And it is what it is. That was august 3rd. Nearly 157,000 american deaths, ago. And an estimated 107,676 more will die, before he leaves office. He says it is what it is. Ill tell you what it is, if he cant or wont articulate it. Its devastating. Tragic. Heartwrenching. And most appallingly, completely unnecessary. Joining us now, dr. Chris murray, director of the university of washingtons institute for Health Metrics and evaluation. Dr. Murray, as i mentioned, covid was the leading cause of death in the u. S. , this past week. And your new model projects 60,000 more deaths, by april 1st, than it projected just a week ago. A total of 562,000 american lives lost. Whats the biggest factor you are seeing behind this increase . Well, the the big surge in california is really taking us by surprise. We expected numbers to go up, but its going up so fast, its bringing up case numbers and death numbers. Icus are full. So, things are worse than we expected in california. And then, were seeing the sort of steady increase in many other parts of the country, that we we were expecting to see. But its its a little worse than the trends, a week ago. And its a strain on the icus there, and around the country. The news about emergencyuse authorization for Moderna Vaccine from the fda, which we reported moments ago. It is the breaking news tonight. Its the second vaccine thats received emergencyuse approval. It is promising news but when will we see these vaccines actually start to affect the rate of transmission . Well, obviously, the vaccine is is fantastic news. And in the long term, thats going to really help us get covid under control. But it takes time. It takes time to deliver the vaccine. You know, it takes eight or nine days, before it starts to have much of an effect on those who are vaccinated. Take all that into account. We dont expect to see a major dent on the dailydeath rate from vaccination, until sometime in february. And so, we have many weeks ahead of these really high death numbers, per day. Thats six weeks of a lot of pain, at least, that americans need to brace themselves for tonight. In this new model, you predict that 17 of the people in the u. S. Have been infected, so far. 17 . Is it possible that number is actually on the lower side because of all the testing problems we had in the spring, and the people who are asymptomatic and may not know they have been infected . Well, it could be. But, what were doing to get that number is were looking at the surveys that cdc and other groups have done, testing for antibodies. And then, we can relate those antibody measures, which are a pretty sound measure of how many people have been infected, to the case numbers. And so, what it means is that there is a lot of asymptomatic cases out there. Its why its really, so important for people to be careful. Its not just the people who have been that have tested positive. One of the things you guys do, which i think is so important, is you look at mobility. How much people are moving around, how much they are heeding warnings to stay home. What are you seeing, in terms of increased or decreased mobility . Well, we saw, you know, as people start started to get concerned in november, things started to get much worse. We did see reductions in mobility. But, you know, some of this mobility data can tell us a lot of detail. Like, are people going to restaurants . And are they going to Department Stores . And were seeing a sort of postthanksgiving increase, in a number of those things. Like, visiting stores. All those are opportunities for transmission. And so, we really its its going to be so important, for the next six to eight weeks, that people are cautious. And, of course, you know, also, wear a mask to avoid transmission risk. Wear a mask to avoid transmission. I hope people listen to what you said. That, we will not see an impact on deaths until at least february, at this point. People need to be careful for a lot longer. Chris murray, thank you so much for being with us tonight. Thank you very much for the work youre doing. Thanks. Joining us now. Dr. Celine gounder, infectiousdisease specialist, epidemiologist, and member of president elect bidens Coronavirus Task force. Also, dr. William schaffner, professor of medicine in the division of Infectious Diseases at the Vanderbilt Universitys medical school. Dr. Schaffner, you are a member of the Cdcs Advisory Committee on immunization practices and i know you expect to be on call all weekend about both vaccines. When it comes to the Moderna Vaccine, explain why this emergencyuse authorization, which just came through moments ago, why you think itll make a difference in places, like where you are, in tennessee. Oh, john, i think it is wonderful that we have a second vaccine. And the Moderna Vaccine, which doesnt require all the intensive, very cold storage and handling of pfizers is the vaccine we can distribute closer to the people. We can get it out to rural areas, in Health Departments, and in local, small hospitals. And they can be the focus for immunization activities, throughout the state. Heretofore, with pfizer, we have had to concentrate our vaccination efforts, largely, in metropolitan areas. And this allows us to spread it out, get the vaccine out, much more widely. Thats very, very attractive. Yeah. That will be a big difference, and soon. To be clear, dr. Gounder, its not available tonight or tomorrow. But it has cleared a major hurdle as we wait for the cdc to sign off. It should be available the first or second day of next week. Today, a lot of people did receive their first doses of the Pfizer Vaccine. Vice president mike pence, second lady karen pence, Surgeon General jerome adams, congressman jim clyburn, our very own dr. Sanjay gupta on new day this morning. What do you think public, intentional vaccinations will have on the issue of Vaccine Hesitancy . People who might be nervous about getting the vaccine. John, there is a long history of this going back to Elvis Presley going on the Ed Sullivan Show getting a polio vaccination. We have done this during other vaccination campaigns. Whether thats for polio, in places like india. Or ebola, in west africa, more recently. Having elected officials, other prominent persons, go on camera and be vaccinated in front of the cameras for people to see. I i think its important. Its not the only communication strategy that matters here. But i do think, when you see somebody, especially, if its somebody of your own political party, who is accepting a vaccination. Who says, look, this is safe. This is effective. I am doing this to protect me, my family, my community. I think thats a really powerful message. It was very powerful. Very intentional from the Surgeon General today, jerome adams, directed at the Minority Community as well. That is a message very important to get out there. Dr. Schaffner, as more doses of both vaccines become available, how tough will it be to prioritize who gets it after Healthcare Workers and residents of longterm care facilities . I mean, how do you scaquare thi huge undertaking with the budgetary constraints faced by Smaller Health departments. Let me tell you, theyre working just as intensively as the people who are working in Emergency Departments and intensivecare units. They are working, day and night, to make sure that this works. Now, the Cdcs Advisory Committee on immunization practices, on sunday, i think, will give us the prioritization, who comes after the Healthcare Workers and the residents of longterm care facilities. You know, there are many ways to do this. There are many right answers. We are going to be following their program. And the Health Departments have already got all kinds of contingency plans to follow up. But much of what we have to do, as dr. Gounder has just said, is convince a lot of hesitant people to come in. If the if the vaccine remains in vials, in refrigerators, it cant prevent disease. Weve got to get it into arms. And i know that, in my state, in rural areas, theres still a lot of hesitancy. Perhaps, one of the things that will encourage them is that, those of us in white coats and blue scrubs, if we line up to get the vaccine, perhaps some of the people will say, hmm, those medical people know something. Theyre getting the vaccine. If its good enough for them, itll be good enough for me. And i hope that spreads, throughout neighborhoods across my state and across the United States. Me, too. And look, i have to say i was smiling there because one of the things doctors like both of you have taught me over this, its not the vaccines that safe lives. Its vaccinations. Its getting them in peoples arms that makes the difference. Dr. Gounder i am so glad you are here because you explain what i am about to ask so well. Perspective, once again. In alaska, we learn there is this third case of of anaphylaxis that may be connected to receiving the vaccine from a Healthcare Worker with noknown allergies. Again, put this in perspective for us because people are going to see that headline. They are going to get worried. What do they need to know . Look. Weve already had over 50,000 americans vaccinated. Thats actually a tremendous achievement that weve already vaccinated that many people since the Pfizer Vaccine got emergencyuse authorization. So, to have three anaphylactic reactions, fairly severe, allergic reactions, that could be managed with epipens, you know, epinephrine, and some of the other typical things, benadryl, that we give for an allergic reaction. That all of these reactions were managed. None were that serious, in the end. None were fatal. And none had longterm consequences. So, you know, i think, yes, you may see some more of these kinds of reactions occur. But, big picture, three out of over or almost 50,000, thats really not a very high rate. And again, these were not that dangerous, in the end. Dr. Gounder, dr. Schaffner, thank you so much. A quick reminder. Cnns don lemon and dr. Sanjay gupta, hosting a special town hall, tonight. It deals with the hopes and fears surrounding the new vaccines in communities with ample reason to harbor both those sentiments. Communities of color have been hit hard, as you know. And some live with the bitter legacy of mistrust for the medical establishment. Now, with so much riding on vaccine acceptance, cnn presents the color of covid, the vaccines. Dr. Anthony fauci, Surgeon General jerome adams, are here to answer questions. Also, head of Moorehouse College of medicine, leaders of the faith community, and one of the first in the country to get the vaccine. It all gets underway tonight here on cnn. Next for us. The calls are coming from inside the house, the white house, that is. President trump, calling on lawmakers to, quote, do something to keep him in office. And the incoming senator, whos so eager to do just that. Later, forget do something. Can lawmakers actually do anything about the one thing that really matters to millions of americans . Can they finally come up with a covidrelief package . t have to be. We can create a kinder, more inclusive world for the millions of people on the autism spectrum. Go to autismspeaks. Org. Light it up like dynamite this is ah light it up like dynamite so watch me light the fire and set the night alight alright shining through the city. Robinwithout the commission fees. So, you can start investing today wherever you are even hanging with your dog. So, what are you waiting for . Download now and get your first stock on us. Robinhood. More now on just what the president is doing, these days, instead of his job. For one thing, he is endorsing one incoming senators to derail in alabama senator elect, Tommy Tuberville, had this to say. You have been reading about in the house. Perhaps, its make up for his 57 record in his final year coaching auburn. In any case, when the two bodies meet in joint session january 6th. Senate republican leaders, including Mitch Mcconnell, oppose the move. But as you would imagine, the president is onboard retweeting protuberville messages, and writing, quote, more republican senators should follow his lead. We had a landslide victory, and then it was swindled away from the Republican Party but we caught them. Do something. Again, Mitch Mcconnell is not inclined to do anything. But his house counterpart, minority leader, kevin mccarthy, has not ruled anything out. According to cnns manu raju, during a house Conference Call yesterday with gop members, calling it a topic for later discussion. Cnns jim acosta has more, now, from the white house. So, jim, what does the white house actually think it is going to get from all this . Theyre not going to overturn the election. So, is this just an effort to placate the president , and keep the base fired up and donating money . Oh, absolutely. The president is treating his base like a postelection atm machine. And he is going to continue to do that. Listen, john. As you were just saying, he is egging these senators on. He has found an inexperienced, incoming senator in Tommy Tuberville who is willing to do his bidding. Even though, Senate Republican leaders saying, dont do this, please, dont do this. It is all shaping up to be an embarrassing spectacle that is just not going to go anywhere. And thats why a source close to the white house told me, earlier, about this. That this is an exercise in futility. This source added, an exercise in fealty to trump. I think thats more dead on. This is more about the president and his team seeing the rest of the Republican Party bow down to him. Even though he is a loser in the last election. So, jim, you know, when you think about the crises this country is facing now. Public health. The economy. The huge, cyberattack. The president isnt speaking out about any of it, in any meaningful, substantial way. So, why is he fighting for a job that he doesnt, seemingly, actually want to do . Yeah. I mean, i talked to a trump adviser, earlier this week, who described the president as whining, not working. I think that that essentially sums it up. Its extraordinary, john, because not only do we have this raging pandemic with thousands of lives being lost, every day. We also have this this russian, cyberattack, this apparentrussian cyberattack on the u. S. Government that the president is still silent about this evening. John, we had multiple days, in a row, with the president not getting out in front of the cameras and addressing reporters. He wouldve had multiple opportunities, if he wanted them, to not only speak out on the pandemic, and encourage people to get out there and get vaccinations. But also, to warn Vladimir Putin to to stay out of this this, you know, federal government. And hes just chosen not to do so. I will tell you, john, it it is alarming and you and i were talking been talking about this, previously this week. You know, this is a president , who has checked out. He doesnt seem to want to do the job, anymore. He he likes the the fancy house, behind me, with the with the wreaths, you know, ado adorning the exterior and so on but he doesnt want to do the work. Its extraordinary. One would think if he is thinking about running in 2024, john, that he would want to get out there and lead the charge on the coronavirus pandemic. Lead the charge in challenging Vladimir Putin on this cybersecurity hack. Hes just not doing it, and i suspect, john, its because he is wrapped up in grief with this election. And and, you know, chasing after this fever dream that, somehow, he can still overturn the Election Results when its just not going to happen, john. Got to say, at least 2,300 new deaths reported overnight. Maybe, he could express some grief over that instead of the election. His absence at the vaccination event today with Vice President pence and the Surgeon General, it was a screaming absence. Glaring, jim. Thanks so much for being with us. Joining us now, rick wilson, also, cnn senior political analyst, kirsten powers. So, kirsten, Tommy Tuberville. What does it say about the president s influence, that this incomingfreshman senator is saying he is willing to stand up in congress, in his first week, like, his first three days on the job. Buck Mitch Mcconnell and push the lie that the president won the 2020 election. Well, i think it says that he thinks that, you know, his voters are more aligned with donald trump, which is probably true. Than anybody else. And so, you know, i think it, also, says something that there arent any other senators that, at this point, seem willing to do that. So, there i think we should focus on that, as well. Mitch mcconnells not going along with this, and he is telling other people not to go along with it. And, you know, Mitch Mcconnell has finally acknowledged that president or, you know, president elect biden will be the president. So, you know, this is one person whos willing to just continue with this disruption. And continue to try to convince, and i think theyve been successful in convincing, a large portion of america who voted for trump that joe biden is not a legitimate president. Rick, how how convinced are you that what kirsten says will stick . That there will be no other republican senators, like, maybe, ted cruz or ron johnson or rand paul . The dichotomy in the Republican Party, today, is profound. It is the trumpist faction of the party and the remaining faction of the Republican Party. Anyone who wants to run for if they want to run for reelection in 22 or president in 24. They are going to do whatever trump tells them to do. If he told if he told josh hawley to stand on his head, hed stand on his head until his ears bled. There is nothing these guys wont do to please trump and protect their future. They recognize, theres a faction of the republican base, especially in primaries and especially in the 24 primary, that is going to be loyal to donald trump, until the very, very end. And so, you are going to see this kind of performative stuff that tuberville and others are going to do, to try to show donald trump, to the very last, that they are loyal to him. No matter the cost to the country or the corrosiveness of their behavior, in terms of our norms and institutions. So, kirsten, what you know and what Mitch Mcconnell knows is that, if tuberville does force this vote, it puts republican senators in a situation, where they have to cast, really, what is a dumb, stupid, hurtful vote. What mcconnell doesnt want to have happen is to have republican senators have to choose between the president , and what the voters actually said. Doesnt it put them in a bind . Yeah, it puts them in a bind. I mean, you know, everything about donald trump puts republicans in a bind. You know, but i would say, you know, senator hawley or senator cruz. Its true that they will do trumps bidding because they want his approval. But also, is he really are they really that far off from trump in terms of how destructive they are . I mean, they they seem to be just, you know, trump lite, at this point. And who knows, will maybe move into being just as bad as him, if not worse. So, you know, i think that these are the type of people who have been willing to say and do almost anything. Even, you know, with senator cruz, even before donald trump was even involved in our government. And so, you know, i think that i expect very little from them, regardless of trump. But, its its true, it remains true, that people who are looking at running for office in the Republican Party, anytime on the near horizon, feel that they have to suck up to donald trump. And, you know, i, personally, think that there are some things more important in the world than winning reelection. Ive obviously never run for office but if i did, you know, i dont think thats an excuse to go along with things like this. So, rick, i want to play something that senatorelect Tommy Tuberville said just after he won his senate seat. Listen to this. You know, government wasnt set up for one group to have all three branches of government. It wasnt set up that way. Or or three branch you know, the house, the senate, and the executive. And i tell people my dad fought 76 years ago in europe to free europe of socialism. Wow. I mean, wow. Thats wow on two fronts. Animal house. Was it over when the germans bombed pearl harbor . Is it possible, Tommy Tuberville is in over his head, rick . You know, its possible that Tommy Tuberville is dumber than a sack of hair. And i think this is demonstrating that. And this is a guy, you know, as you pointed out, is losing losing losing last few years record with auburn will haunt him forever. But i think his losing the battle with reality is going to be whats going to face him, more more abruptly. Look. There is there is a degree to which, you know, Tommy Tuberville is the perfect representative, you know, of a part of trumpism that is, as i call it, sitting in darwins waiting room. These are people who do not believe in reality. They believe in a fantasy version of both the world and of history and of american history. And tuberville is an example of that. And its its the rejection, in the Republican Party, of expertise, of brains, of acknowledgment of reality, of experience. And he is hes sort of the apotheosis of that right now. Hes roy moore with everything but the pension for young kids. Young republicans, who think they have a future. May want to be president , or definitely want to be president. Doesnt ted cruz, marco rubio, josh hawley, tom cotton. Isnt donald trump a potential obstacle for them . I mean, if he if he sticks around and flirts with running in 2024, arent they going to have to deal with him, one way or the other . Yeah. Absolutely. But, you know, we dont we dont really know what what will happen with him. And if youre them, youre going to look at it and say its possible that he wont run again, but he could still be a kingmaker. And so, you know, were still going to want to be in good stead with him. But i would still maintain, they would be doing most the stuff theyre doing, anyway. Because they, already, are aligned with this this way of thinking and operating. And, you know, ted cruz has always been sort of a noxious, you know, senator. I mean, hes always been problematic. Hes always been somebody who is just looking out for ted cruz, and isnt really, particularly interested in anything bigger than that. So, that is, to me, very much what trumpism stands for. It stands for looking out for yourself, and having no concern, whatsoever, for the country. Because what theyre doing, right now, its inexcusable because it undermines democracy. Kirsten powers, rick wilson, thanks so much for being with us tonight. Merry christmas to both of you if i dont see you over the next few days. More breaking news just ahead. Sources tell cnn about a new timeline when the government first became aware of that breathtaking hack of keygovernment agencies and private companies. A former Top White House cybersecurity official joins us next. Some hot cocoa . Mom, look are you okay . Head home this holiday with the one you love. Visit your local mercedesbenz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedesbenz winter event. Now every bath fitter bathbath fis installed quickly, safely, and beautifully, with a lifetime warranty. Go from old to new. From worn to wow. The beautiful bath youve always wanted, done right, installed by one expert technician, all in one day. Weve been creating moments like these for 35 years, and were here to help you get started. Book your free virtual or inhome Design Consultation today. We started by making the cloud easier to manage. But we didnt stop there. We made a cloud flexible enough to adapt to any size business. No matter what it does, or how it changes. And we kept going. So you only pay for what you use. Because at dell technologies, we stop. At nothing. Breaking news, now, on that suspected russian hack of keygovernment agencies and a growing number of private companies. Three sources familiar with the situation now tell cnn u. S. Agencies assigned to monitor these sorts of threats became aware, months ago, of suspicious activity thats now been linked to this historic incursion. This, as a white house Spokesman Says President Trump has been working, quote, very hard on the subject. But as of yet, has made no, public comment. Cnns Alex Marquardt has the very latest. Alex, what are you learning about how far back there were warning signs about this . John, we first got word from the u. S. Government five days ago about this attack. But it was several months ago that u. S. Officials, who as you mentioned, monitor threats to critical infrastructure. When they first noticed this suspicious activity, and thats according to three sources that you mentioned that spoke to cnn. This activity was linked to what we now know is one of the largest operations in history. At the time, though, they werent able to tie what they were seeing to the hackers software to get inside. It did not provide conclusive evidence those networks have been compromised but it still did worry topcybersecurity officials that there were vulnerabilities. Then, fast forward, ten days ago, fire eye revealed it had been hacked. That was then followed, several days later, by the u. S. Government admitting it, too, had been targeted in what we now know is the biggest breach that it has ever seen. John. Alex, its been nearly a week since the news of these breaches first broke, as you said. What do we now know about the scope of access the hackers might have . We are learning more, every day. But given how sophisticated this attack was, there is so much more that we need to learn. For example, in the past two days, we have learned the state department, energy department, were also compromised. But when it comes to any of these agencies or departments, the question is what data was accessed . What data is being seen or is being used . Now, the u. S. Cybersecurity agency, known as cisa, has said there are other methods these hackers used to get inside that they have not, yet, revealed. That there were other tactics and procedures, that these that these attackers used that have not, yet, been exposed. So, there is so much more that needs to be learned. All of these companies, all of these agencies, and there are thousands of them, need to do forensic analysis on all of their systems. That could take months. We may never know the full scope, the full extent, of these these breaches, these attacks. And that really speaks to the sophistication and and the don goi ongoing nature. We need to emphasize that, john. It is very much, ongoing. The Russian Hackers expected to be tied to Russian Intelligence Services are still very much inside these networks. Why hasnt the president said anything, out loud, about this . What explanation do we have for that . Its really stunning. The white house says that the president has been briefed, and that he is working hard on it. We do know that he has been briefed by his topintelligence officials but he has not said a single word. Senator mitt romney, a fellow republican, said that its inexcusable. The calls are growing for him not only to Say Something but to do something. And that is going to be the big question, in fact, for joe biden, who is going to inherit all this. What to do about this . As we have been saying, there, still, is a lot that needs to be learned to then come up with some sort of response. But president elect joe biden says that he is not going to stand, idly, by. When when countries, when cyberactors, carry out these types of malicious attacks on the u. S. John. Alex marquardt, terrific reporting. Thanks so much for explaining it all to us tonight. The depth and seriousness of this latest attack on the Computer Systems that run the government and these private companies is just so huge. Perspective, now, from richard clark, former white house cybersecurity czar and coauthor of the fifth domain, defending our companies, our country, and ourselves, in the age of cyberthreats. Richard, i heard you say here on cnn this is the largest espionage attack, in history. So as we continue to learn more about the scope and depth of this, what concerns you most about what happened . Well, what concerns me is that the russians have broken all the rules. Espionage, john. But this is wholesale espionage. And its getting not in only to a few government offices but into thousands of companies. Andts what the military calls preparation of the battlefield. Putting back doors in thousands of Important Companies and agencies, so that, if they ever want to come back in the period of crisis, and destroy those networks, they have the access. Thats the real problem. Is that is what youre describing akin to sort of a cybersleeper cell or sleeper cells that have been planted now throughout the country, which they can come back to and activate, whenever they want . Its a good analogy. Its as though, in a prewar period, they had gone around and put tnt on all the hightension wires and telephone poles. We are now in a situation where, if we want to confront them in ukraine or confront them in syria, we have to know, they have a knife to our throat. They could cut off critical infrastructure. They could destroy networks. Not just get into them, john. But wipe them out. President trump has been silent on this, publicly. We just heard Alex Marquardt say theres really no explanation about why he hasnt said anything out loud. What should he be saying . What should he be doing, richard . Well, the National Security adviser cut short his vacation in europe and came back to manage this crisis. So, the government is addressing it. Homeland security is addressing it. Nsa is addressing it. I dont think they really need the president , at this point. But, someday, an american president has to look putin in the eye and say, knock it off, get the hell out of all of our networks. And if you dont, i will make you pay a price. We havent been willing to make them pay a price, except for economic sanctions. I think we have to really, seriously consider it. Even though it might start a titfortat, cyberwar. But, somehow, we have to stop this behavior. Youre talking about offensive, cyber action, yes . Offensive, cyberactions, on part of the United States, is one of the response options. So are further economic sanctions. So are limiting their access to the global internet. There is a whole panoply of things we can do. But everything should be on the table, john, including offensive cyberactions. As i said, the president has been silent on this. Simply, hasnt said anything out loud. What message does russia hear, in that silence . And beyond russia, what message do potential, bad actors hear, around the world . Well, i think, all bad actors around the world are learning that they can hurt us. That they can get into these Software Updates, and use them as a vector to attack. So, from now on, any Software Update has to be treated with suspicion. Now that Everybody Knows thats a way of getting in. And other bad actors. If we dont do something, other bad actors will pile on. Theyll realize that they can take advantage of us and theres really no price for it. So, obviously, there are all kinds of threats facing the United States, beyond just cyberespionage. You were central in the National Security apparatus for decades, especially around september 11th. You tried to raise red flags about al qaeda. What do you think president elect bidens nationalsecurity team should be most focused on, as they take office . Well, the the largest threat is is our relation with china. Which, this administration in power has really botched. We seem to be going down a path toward hostilities with china. We have to back off. That doesnt make any sense, for either side. So, we have to find with china. That thats job number one. Russia is a sideshow, compared to that. But cybersecurity underpins all of that, whether its china were dealing with, iran, or russia. So, we really need someone in the white house, who understands all of this. Both, the offense and defense. Both, the military and the commercial. And we are going to get that person. The congress is creating a new, national, cyber director, confirmed by the senate, and will sit in the white house with staff and coordinate all government activities. If they get the right person for that job, john, we can change the game. Richard clark, every conversation with you is an education. Great to see you, tonight. Thanks so much for being here. Thank you, john. Still, more breaking news as we come to the end of a very busy week. The latest on negotiations to fund the government. While negotiations continue on a new, relief bill. Thats next. Introducing fidelity income planning. We look at what youve saved, what youll need, and help you build a flexible plan for cash flow that lasts, even when youre not working, so you can go from saving. To living. Lets go so you can go from saving. To living. Tech every customer has their own safelite story. This couple was on a camping trip. When their windshield got a chip. They drove to safelite for a sameday repair. And with their insurance, it was no cost to them. Woman really . Tech thats service you can trust. Singers safelite repair, safelite replace. Beautiful. But when i started cobra kai, the lack of control over my business made me a little intense. 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Use the chevy employee discount for everyone to get over six thousand eight hundred dollars below msrp on this equinox. Get the chevy employee discount for everyone today. Breaking news from capitol hill, tonight. Congress has agreed to fund the government for another two days, while 11thhour negotiations continue on that new relief bill. Whether this actually means relief for stimulus legislation will become reality is really anyones guess right now. Joining me, two veterans in the ways of washington. Or more often well, the way washington is supposed to work or, more often, does not work. David gergen, senior cnn political analyst and former top aide to president clinton, cnn political commentator, and the author of youre fired, the perfect guide to beating donald trump. And, paul, i want to start with you. I get that Congress Works best under a deadline. We all know how deadlines work. But, come on, man. I mean, this has been going on, for months. Americans are suffering. People are losing their livelihood, here. How is it that they cant seem to get this done . It is just outrageous, john. I will say, months ago, on may 15th, Nancy Pelosis Democratic House passed the heroes act. 3. 4 trillion worth of funding for these very people. That was 216 days ago and, tr tragically, Mitch Mcconnell and the republicans in the senate have been sitting on this. Now we are days away from 12 million americans losing their unemployments. 4. 9 million americans facing eviction. The census reported that in october and november, one out of six families with children is facing what they call food insecurity, which means theyre hungry. It means theyre trying to make dinner right now not knowing if theyve got enough food to feed their kids. And the government is sitting there cashing their fat government paychecks. Ive never seen this kind of callousness when were losing a 9 11 every day, john, and they cant act . But its not both sides. It is not. The democrats passed a bill 216 days ago. Republicans wont pass anything. Well, democrats did pass a bill, and Mitch Mcconnell didnt lift a finger on it for months. This fall before the election, david, you had the president who was floating the idea of 1. 8 trillion. Theyre now arguing over a 900 billion deal. They cant seem to finish that. Hopefully they will. I mean i dont want to doom this. Hopefully theyll come up with something. But doesnt someone just need to step forward and express leadership . Historically thats often a president of the United States. Exactly right. First of all, paul, i think, nailed the argument in terms of the numbers. Hes right on track. What i also believe, it wasnt just Mitch Mcconnell and the republicans that sat on their hands. It was the president of the United States. In the leadup to the elections and since then, his obsession about the way the votes have been counted. Hes been awol for so long we barely know what its like to be governed anymore. The democrats not only didnt get enough, they only got about less than a third of what they were seeking. But the amount of money thats going out to individuals who are hurting so much is pretty marginal. Its the right thing to do. Thank god were going to get it passed. It should have been done a long time ago. It should have been a more robust package. People ought to keep their minds open to the idea that joe biden is pushing this. This is a down payment. Its not the full payment that is needed. More needs to be done after january 20th. Paul, we were hearing some frustration from the rank and file members, particularly in the house, both democrats and republicans. These members are saying, come on already. Come on. Do you understand that frustration . I do. There used to be what senator mccain used to call the regular order. You know, you have committee hearings. You have meetings. You have votes. And now it seems its only come down to these elites in a room. I understand that frustration. I will say one of the most conservative members of the Republican Party in the senate, josh hawley, good for him. He public went to the floor and called for a 1,200 stimulus check for every american whos hurting. Good for him. But that fell on deaf ears and one of his fellow republicans, ron johnson, the senator from wisconsin, stood up and killed it. So there is great anger in the rank and file. But this should have been done months ago. David makes a good point about the president. I talked to two different hill offices today on the democratic side involved in these negotiations. I have to tell you, the president s name never even came up. Theyre not even thinking about him, hes so awol right now. Thats a really sad commentary. For those of us who have had the honor to work in the white house and who have seen president s that have been the vital center of action, this guy is totally out to lunch. I agree. John, its important to understand here that hes awol not only on this issue, but on the cyber issue. Very sobering. The president of the United States as not had a security briefing, regular security briefing, since october 2nd. Ive never heard of any president under any circumstances and i worked to close to that. The other thing that should be pointed out is that most economists starting at the Federal Reserve say that the amount of money in the stimulus package thats coming, it is not enough. We have to keep the door open for more, or this economy could stall out. Paul begala, weve got 20 seconds left. Give us the odds on the democratic race in 20 seconds or less right now. Goodness. I really have no idea. I really dont. Mr. Trump apparently was supposed to go down there saturday, and now its canceled. Thats good news for the democrats. He still can rally that base. It really is interesting right now. No one has any idea where this is headed right now, but it really does seem to be a tossup as we sit here tonight. Thanks so much for being with us. Really appreciate it. Thank you so much, john. Just ahead, a cnn special report about another deadly pandemic in this nations history where some leaders went with Party Politics over science. May your holidays glow bright and all your dreams take flight. Visit your local mercedesbenz dealer today for exceptional lease and financing offers at the mercedesbenz winter event. If you have postmenopausal and a high risk for fracture, now might not be the best time to ask yourself, are my bones strong . life is full of make or break moments. Thats why its so important to help reduce your risk of fracture with prolia®. Only prolia® is proven to help strengthen and protect bones from fracture with 1 shot every 6 months. Do not take prolia® if you have low blood calcium, are pregnant, are allergic to it, or take xgeva®. 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Parades like these were drawing large crowds throughout the war. Americans were eager to show their patriotism. The medical community was very, very concerned by that, urged the Public Health or to call the parade off. He had specifically been told in a meeting two days before by doctors not to allow it to go on. He was a political appointee. Philadelphia had at that time a notoriously rather corrupt government, and he was not willing to go up against the bosses. So he went ahead with this. There were hundreds of thousands of people in the street packed close together, shouting and singing songs. And like clockwork, 48, 72 hours later, the disease exploded in philadelphia. Just one piece of a much broader film