Welcome. Our guest tonight for the hour is bob woodward. His new book and the subject of it cannot be more timely. The title of the book is rage. The subject is Donald Trumps leadership. We are, of course, experiencing a steep recession and the president ial election a little more than a month and a half away. He spoke 18 times to the president in making the book. He recorded the conversations and youll hear many exchanges for the first time tonight. Others have already been released and theyve already become front page news, establishing in the president s own words that he knew very early on just how deadly and contagious covid19 was. He did not share that with the public, with the very people whose security, health and welfare are supposed to be every president s, any president s First Priority. Once more, the president suggested to woodward in a conversation on the 19th of march, his First Priority was to withhold the truth to, quote, play it down. He said and continues to say he wants to minimize panic. If book, again, is called rage. Bob, thank you for being with us. Thank you. So, Jared Kushner today said that the president that President Trump was very forthcoming with the American People about what he knew and when he knew it. I want you to respond to that, but before you do, i want to play a conversation you had with President Trump back on april 13th about the virus. This thing is a killer, if it gets you. If youre the wrong person, you dont have a chance. Yes, yes, exactly. Like a friend of mine died, very great reals tape developer from manhattan. He died yesterday. Yeah, i know. Listen, students of mine, i teach a journalism seminar, have written me, had it, and one of the women said she had it, they said she was cured and they kept coming back with new symptoms, strange things happened. She had intense headaches, she what happened . Shes in agony. And theyre telling her, oh, youre cured now. Youre over it. So, this i mean, you said it, this is a monster. It rips you apart. This is a scourge. The plague. It is the plague. And the and bob, its so easily transmissionable. I know. I mean, you can be in the room i was in the white house couple of days ago, meeting with ten people in the oval office and a guy sneezed, innocently, not a horrible, you know, just a sneeze. The entire room bailed out, okay . Including me, by the way. And today, kushner is saying that the president was very forthcoming with all of us about what he knew and when he knew it. Thats not the content that we ever heard from the president. Or the words. And let me take you to the scene in the oval office, the end of january, january 28th, when the National Security adviser to the president , robert obrien, said, mr. President , this virus is going to be the biggest National Security threat to your presidency. He said it with passion. This was a top secret intelligence briefing. The deputy stepped in and said, i agree. Hes the person, it turns out, almost perfectly placed by accident. He had been in china as a reporter for the wall street journal for seven years. He knew the chinese lie, he told the president this. He had contacts in china, reliable doctors who said to him, this is not just going to be a little problem. This is going to be a pandemic like the 1918 spanish flu. And the president asked questions. So, fast forward to ten days later, when he told me all of this. I thought he was talking about china, because hed been on the phone with president xi. I thought for a long time it was china and it was the United States and tragically, unfortunately, he failed to tell the public the truth that he knew. On february 4th, a few days before i talked to him and he told me this, he gave his spe h speech, the famous state of the union speech, to the congress, 40 Million People watched. He spent 15 seconds on it, saying, were doing everything that we can. This is the moment a leader would say, i got a warning, trouble is coming, there are things we can do. But then he goes on and says, oh, i didnt want to tell the truth because i would panic people. Thats not what people in this country do when theyre told the truth. Yeah, i mean, americans rise to the occasion, as long as they feel like theyre getting a straight deal from somebody. President trump, you know, he said to you in those recordings that were released last week that, you know, he believes in downplaying the virus. He likes to downplay it, he still likes to downplay it. He was asked just moments ago as part of a town hall on another network that he was participating in, i want to play the exchange, the question he was asked and what he said and have you respond. Why would you downplay a pandemic that is known to disproportionately harm low income families and minority communities . Yeah, well, i didnt downplay it. I actually, in many ways, i upplayed it in terms of action. Its amazing to me. It is literally he said to you, he likes to downplay it. For the record. I mean, in fact, lets just play him telling you he likes to downplay it. Now its turning out its not just old people, today and yesterday, some startling facts came out. Its not just older yeah, exactly. Its plenty of young people. So, give me a moment of talking to somebody going through this with fauci or somebody who kind of it caused a pivot in your mind, because its clear, just from whats on the public record, that you went through a pivot on this to, oh, my god, the gravity is almost inexplicable and unexplainable. Well, i think, bob, really, to be honest with you sure, i want you to be. I wanted to i wanted to always play it down. I still like playing it down. Yes. Because i dont want to create a panic. I always want to play it down, i still like playing it down. And now just tonight at this town hall, he says he upplayed it, he didnt play it down. We are living in an orwellian world. And this is not just about some political problem or some geopolitical problem, its about the lives of people in this country and he was told, he knew, he told me about it. I thought it was about china and quite frankly, it took me three months to find out about that key january 28th meeting in the oval office, which was a top secret intelligence briefi inind the briefer from the Intelligence Community is saying, well, there are problems in china, but theyre working on it and thats when the National Security adviser and the deputy stepped in, i have witnesses to this, participants in this and said, no, no, and pushed a very contrarian view based on facts and experience. But it was interesting to me, because later on in an interview, you asked you mentioned the Obrien Obrien saying this is going to be the biggest National Security challenge for you, he didnt even remember his National Security adviser saying that to him, or he claimed, but he didnt want to talk about it. I mean, here we have that tape, look at the dodge here. Its classic. Its so, quite frankly, sick. I asked the president specifically about that, this is in may, after i had learned about it, i said, do you remember your National Security adviser saying that this virus is going to be not the biggest National Security challenge, its going to be the biggest National Security threat to your presidency. Youre president of this country and you know what the president said . I asked, do you remember it . And he said, no, but then he said, but i know he said it. I know he said it. So he doesnt remember it, but twice he tells me he knows that obrien said it. What kind of you know, i dont know how to not my job is not to be emotional and ive done it for 50 years and i try to bleach the emotions out of t it, but this is a story and unfortunately, its not over. Were right in the middle of the damn pandemic and you talk to the doctors, as i have, and the experts and if we had received the kind of warni ining and thi kind of this is what you, as citizens, can do, this could be over. Yeah. Many people, i mean, there are estimates, im not sure what estimate youre going to believe, but some of them go up to 180,000 people would not have died of those 195,000. I want to you know, you said or well yan, i want to play another part of one of your conversations from the president , from just last month, august 14th, where the president talks about his administrations response. Listen, i mean, you nothing more could have been done. Nothing more could have been done. Well. I acted early. Well i acted early. This will be the history that we start the first draft of and it will continue and so, you think the virus totally super cedes the economy . Oh, sure. But theyre related, as you know. A little bit, yeah. Little bit . I mean, more than a little bit, but the economy is doing look, were close to a new stock market record. But you have tens of millions of people in this country who are your citizens who dont have jobs and dont have that money coming in that came in for a number of months and, you know, you i always worry, as you and i have discussed, that in my position of privilege, that i dont realize that enough. And, you know, thats thats going to be part of the election, its going to be i agree. Whats fascinating to me about that, him saying, you know, you think, and with genuine surprise in his voice, you think the virus totally supercedes the economy . Hes talking about his record, his legacy. Hes not talking about human lives or, you know, i mean, to him the high stock market, that was the be all and end all. Yeah. I mean, just listening to it again, i remember participating in it. This wasnt two months ago, or last year, that was one month ago when he called me to see if i could get the deal between the israelis and the uae, i said te book was closed, it was not possible and i told him, quite directly, i said, there are judgments i make in the book that i feel i have to make, as an independent reporter and youre not going to like them. Its going to be tough. And at the end, he said to me, well, it looks like i didnt get you on this book, ill get you on the next one. And then is that the conversation that then a few hours later he tweeted, once he knew that it was going to be tough, he tweeted out that it was all going to be fake . Yes. Actually, one hour and 30 minutes later, he tweeted out, i guess, as he thought, some sort of defense. Now this morning, he was asked about the book on fox news and he said he read it last night okay. Hes not known to be a big reader and certainly not a speed reader. And he said its very boring. And then the anchor on fox news, thank you, asked him, is it accurate . And you know what the president said . I mean, i want to be accurate here, he said, its okay. I mean, its fine. And, you know, he had been out saying its a political hit job and all of these things i dont know, to be honest, whether hes got it straight in his head what is real and what is unreal. That is why, at the end of the book, i say, in totality, my judgment is, this is the wrong man for the job. How can you have the experience of living this white house the way i have for the last fourplus years and having not just discussions with him, but people in the white house, people in the cia, people in the pentagon, people in the state department, trying to get the whole picture of what this administration is, how can you have that experience and not reach that conclusion . What you just said, though, is pretty terrifying, and that he doesnt know what i dont want to paraphrase you incorrectly, but the difference between whats real and whats not real, or in his head, he doesnt know difference between well, the evidence is right no, i agree with you, but its terrifying to hear you say it, given the fact youve interviewed so many president s. Is there any other president who you would say the same thing of, that they dont know the difference . No. And its look, the responsibility he has, i mean, there are two pillars, as he told me once, the job of the president is to pick im sorry, to protect the people. And the second job is to tell the truth. And i could get out Franklin Roosevelts quotes in those wonderful fireside chats, two days after pearl harbor. What did roosevelt say . Its all bad news. The very survival of this america is at stake here. And im calling on everyone, were going to have to work on this every month, every week, every hour, every minute, and then he said this is roosevelt, i mean, play it. It will bring you to tears because roosevelt said, well, im counting on everyone to deal with all of this and not lose heart. We didnt hear anything like that from this president. No. Not even not even close. And i spent hours digging into this and asking about his fundamental attitudes and if u you you look at whats in the book and whats on these tapes, you find and this is part of the paradox. He submitted to an interrogation. I was put you heard it, you say whoa, wait a minute, what do you mean, just a little bit of a connection between the economy and the virus . And when he i pushed back, he said, oh yeah, well, its a lot. Well, of course its a lot. We got to take a short break. More unreleased sound coming up next. What President Trump thinks about former president george w. 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They are taken from conversations with the author and hearing many of them tonight for the first time. Bob, this next exchange, its long, its about four minute, but its important and i hadnt heard it before. President trump continued to tell you hes doing a great job and when you press him on the realities thats going on, he doesnt budge. I just want to play this. The question is going to be, were going to look back and were going to say, end of july, august, september, october, what happened with the virus . Did people people want, you know, weve talked about this. People want their president to succeed. Now, youre right, there are some people who dont no, no, i think youre wrong. People dont want me to succeed. No, but if you succeed, they succeed. Even the rinos, even they dont want me to succeed. I have opposition like nobody has, and thats okay. Ive had that all my life. Ive always had it. And this has been my whole life has been like this. In the meantime, im looking at the white house, im staring at the walls of the white house. Where are you . Opposition all my life, bob, more than worst and lets see how it all turns out. We got 105 days. Lets see how it all turns out. I think its going to turn out okay, today at 5 00. I was unlucky with the virus, because it came in sure. But you got it. The countrys got it. And the worlds got it. But youre in charge of this country and, you know and weve done better than any other country, just about, doing better than any other country at handling it and its a bigger, more diverse, more difficult country. And weve done better other than with the press. Other than with the press, ive done a great job. With the press, i cant do a good job, because its fake. Its fake news. Well, but its a fake group of people and you know it and you wont write it. Okay, but are you going to acknowledge that in the last six, seven months, you made some mistakes in judgment on the virus . Well see how it all turns out. I took a big chance on vaccines. I upped the program. You wouldnt be looking at vaccines for three years. Were looking at them next week. No, i understand, i understand. No, no, what you dont understand i do, i do. What i was able to do with the fda and scheduling. A vaccine takes years before it even gets tested. Were testing vaccines for three weeks already. Okay. Youre in charge of the National Interest and the national will i get credit for it, probably not. You are in charge of the i learned one thing in 50 years in writing about nine president s nine, including you, going back to nixon, ford, reagan, obama, you name it, and that is president s have power, extraordinary power and people are leaning on you and im saying from my reporting. But in my case, they never accepted it and they never accepted this president , because theyre a bunch of dishonest people and they spied on my campaign and we caught them. They spied before and after i won and we caught them. And we caught them cold. Lets see what happens. Yeah. Were indeed going to see. Is there any lesson you take . Because i think this is so important. I have, you know, i keep because im in the business of trying to understand other people, i keep learning about, how do you really understand people . How do i understand you . I mean, you and i have you dont understand me. You dont understand me. You dont understand me. But thats okay. Youll understand me after the election. But you dont understand me now. You dont think so . No. I dont think so. I dont think you get it. What are the questions ive not asked that have not been answered . I think youve asked me a lot of very good questions, a lot of personal questions. I think youve asked me a lot of good stuff. Its a fascinating exchange. The sense of him being a victim, and its a lot of it weve heard before of him, you know, constantly going after the press, of course, and saying, you know, that obama spied on him, you know, the usual stuff that weve heard from him, but that hes saying it in just kind of conversation, it reminded me almost of some sort of tapes ive heard, you know, that were released by the nixon library, nixon was seemingly late at night rambling and talking about enemies. Well, but hes angry. Hes so angry. Hes angry at me, hes angry at democrats, hes angry at republicans, and as i he sees himself as a victim. He sees himself yes, as a victim, and hes just striking out at everyone. But i learned from my colleague Carl Bernstein 45 years ago, i remember we were talking, we spent a lot of time together working on the nixon case, wed sit in mcdonalds and have coffee and big macs and somebody was really angry about something and carl said, you know, anger is really pain. Somebody is feeling pain. And, you know, im not a psychiatrist, i cant leap to that, but when i listen to trump on this and i reflected back on what carl had said, whats going on here . And then you connect it to this orwellian, well, the books fine, no, its a hit job, ju just you know, today, this morning, he acknowledged that he wanted to assassinate syrian president assad and that mattis then secretary of defense wouldnt let him or talked him out of it. I have in my first book two years ago fear exactly that scene where trump calls mattis and i cant use the language, but he says, you know, lets kill him. I mean, in a fury about and i understand the emotions, because hed seen actual video of a sarin gas attack on women and children by assad. But what did mattis do, he said, oh, well get right on it, mr. President , and turned to one of his aides and said, were not going to do that. We will find a measured response. And they did. Yeah. I want to move onto another compelling portion of the book that focuses on the president and dealings with North Korean Kim jongun. And its so interesting to me, in the letters that you read about what kim jongun said and how he played to the president s weaknesses, which are flattery. The president , you know, the times i interviewed him, especially during the campaign, you know, hes ive never met somebody at that level who, you know, that wealth or alleged wealth that he has, who is so needy for some sort of recognition and and, you know, flattery. And so susceptible to it. I want to play part of your conversations with him. It hasnt been heard before, when hes showing you photos of the two of them at one of the summits, the idea that hes showing you photos is bizarre to me. The president uses profanity here and its an important context. Look at that picture. Hes having a good time. You know . Nobodys ever seen him smile. Look at him smiling. Hes happy. He feels happy. But hes very smart. And remember this. When you take over and i really mean this, too, you take over a country and youre 25 years old and you survive, you got, you know, millions of people that are all smart as hell and energetic well, they show you the reports about those camps in north korea oh. President bush once told me about kims father, kim jongil, said, i loathe kim jongil, because of what hes doing to his people. Yeah. And for and you know what, that attitude got him nothing, in the meantime, they built a huge Nuclear Force during those last two administrations. They havent done it during me. Now, you know, you hear reports that theyll start again. But for three years, i gave nothing. Has he given you they say, President Trump agreed to meet, what the its a meeting. I agreed to meet. Instead of sitting home reading your book, i met . He blows right through your question about the human rights abuses, concentration camps in north korea. Wondering what you made of that response . Well, and then he told me actually that kim jongun, the current leader, killed one of his uncles and put the head on the body and trump makes the point that you thought politics was rough here in the United States, look at this. So he and there is what is it about him and dictators . Theres other audio that weve played. Well, we have that tape where he says, extraordinary tape just out of the blue, he said, well, i get along with the turkish leader erdogan, who has probably got the worst human rights record possible, a a tyrant. And trump says, gee, i get along with this guy. Explain that to me sometime. And i dont get along with the bad guys. And he he asked me, he said, as i say, explain it to me and i kind of thought, well, that wouldnt really be hard, because he loves that sense of power. So, as president , hes in charge of foreign relations, as we know and so he can the face of america is the face donald trump puts out. And he has said, oh, were going to have good relations with putin or the crown prince of saudi arabia, other repressive regimes, oh and hell deal with kim jongun, but he tells me south korea, he wants to get out, he wants to pull all of our troops out and at one point, its almost shocking, he said, we have those troops there and we are allowing them south korea to exist. The idea that we would that the president would think were letting a country that is an ally, where we have 32,000 of our troops and hes got these inflated numbers that its costing all this money and its not. I want to listen to another part of your conversation with President Trump about kim jongun and again, i want to warn viewers, the president uses some profanity. He didnt respect obama, didnt like him, thought he was an asshole, okay. Bush was too stupid to know what was happening. Bush has no clue. Thats why we ended up in the middle east and spent 8 trillion there. When i did this, i said, what do we have to lose . My famous expression with africanamerican. What do i have to lose . A great statement. Now the best employment, the best this, okay. So the fake news says the first 24 hours, people couldnt believe it, cnns on, holy shit, he wants to meet with President Trump, never happened. The second, you know, after a few days, i said, well, lets pull it back, its making trump look too good. Lets pull it back. So, now what they actually said, ive given him so much. You know what ive given him . Nothing. I met. I met. You know, i havent taken sanctions and whats coming through you realize how important it was to him. He keeps, you know, your excellency, your excellency, you know, this is going to go down in history. And youve seen what he called obama, what he called others. I understand. Kim jongun knows how to play trump. He calls him your excellency. Kim hes not calling the others that, thats its fascinating to me that the president thought that that is what registered with the president. Do you see what he called me . I mean, thats its the easiest trick in the book. And look at the pictures. Hes smiling, well, ive had one of my assistants, evelyn duffy and steve riley check the photos and there are lots of photos of kim jongun smiling and so forth. Again, trump has got this reality in his head and you the first interview, i sat there in the oval office, i brought my tape recorder, in fact, because he would call at odd hours, i had to carry this olympus tape recorder around with me because once he called and i didnt have the tape recorder, so, i had to have one by the side of the bed, one downstairs and so i took this this is december 5th last year, plunked it down on the resolute desk in the oval office and said, this is all on the record. This is a history, its going to come out before the election. He had these pictures of kim jongun, he had the orders appointing judges, which is very important to him and he had a stack of the letters between kim and he was trying to impress you. I dont know what hes doing, i mean, these are props. Ive interviewed a number of president s in the oval office and you sit at the other end and you you do it without props. But trump had yeah. Had his props in this case. Yeah, i theres were going to actually play that a little later, were going to take a quick break. Next, why the president agreed to talk to bob woodward. Well hear him explain on tape when my conversation with bob woodward continues. Knowing who we are is hard. Its hard. Eliminate who you are not first, and youre going to find yourself where you need to be. The race is never over. The journey has no port. The adventure never ends, because we are always on the way. Todays discussion will be around sliced meat. Moms want healthy. And affordable. 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We cant wait to get you back so weve added temp checks, face coverings, social distancing and extra sanitizing to get the good times going again. Were finally back. And cant wait until you are too. Buy now and get two days free at the parks. Restrictions apply. Bob woodward has been chronicling american president s for nearly 50 years, since he and Carl Bernstein exposed watergate. President trump declined to be interviewed for woodwards first book in 2018. That was the book fear. President reversed course for rage in a big way. Before we play some more sound, bob, i want to ask you about the National Security details. You recount a falling out between President Trump and two of his top officials, secretary of defense mattis, director of National Intelligence dan coates after a meeting which President Trump wanted to withdraw u. S. Troops from afghanistan and south korea. Mattis and coates said the president has no moral compass. The bluntness should have shocked coates but hed arrived at his own hard truths about the most powerful man in the world. Mattis said that the president is unfit. This is extraordinary. This is the top National Security people around the president. This is mad dog mattis, who the president kept praising on the campaign trail until he actually met him and spent time with him and then threw him under the bus. Well, but he threw him under the bus because mattis did his job and as i quote mattis in the book, saying, he, mattis, ran the pentagon, got almost no guidance from President Trump except through tweets and mattis knew, you cant run National Security or defense policy with tweets. And time and time again, these impulsive tweets come and the portrait of mattis i had the luxury of time, really, to dig into the story, is almost a book in itself. Yeah. Because this is a man who was retired, who was willing to serve. It got to a point where he was worried about some war with north korea and hey, bob, i got to sleep in his gym clothes. Im sorry, we have a glitch on the transmission so i couldnt show you right now, so i want to play something, well fix it while its playing, ab t about, one of the things that really struck me that was consistent throughout this process was the president , i mean, interviews are fascinating things between a reporter and a president or anybody. He has this habit of praising the person hes talked to, trying to butter them up, essentially, thinking that thats going to work with bob woodward. I just want this is him praising you throughout this process. I love this guy. Even though he writes shit about me, thats okay. What . I have such respect for you. I wrote four books on george w. Bushs wars. I went through nsc notes, cia reports, i spent hours with bush, all of the people. Oh, you did . And you know why . Didnt he come out terribly in those books . Well, see, what he did i mean, the third book was called state of denial, because he got into denial. Let me ask you sure. He spent all that time with you yes. And you made him look like a fool. Okay, in my opinion. No, no. My job is to find the best obtainable in the end, youll probably write a lousy book. I respect you as an author. I mean, he i dont know, i dont know if hes ever read any of your books. I would be be surprised if he had. But had you experienced that with a president before, that essentially, i mean, its such an old trick, its such an old thing to try to do to an interviewer to schmooze them, ive been watching you for years, youre doing great, the ratings are crazy, theyre great, all that. Ah, no. And whats so interesting look, i knew what i was doing i was trying to find out what happened and if you look through the book like on the north korean relationship, it was unorthodox, it was risky but its something that, as trump kept beating into me, we did not have a war. And hes right, now, where it lands in history, obviously, we dont know. But i i knew i couldnt say, oh, yeah, dont worry. The book is going to turn out great. I just went poker faced and learned from reporting on the cia for many, many years that the power of silence, sometimes you just have to let the silence suck out the truth. That is very true indeed. You know that better than anyone. Jared kushner was asked today about something he said to you that, quote, the most dangerous people around the president are overconfident idiots. Something you wrote as a reference, or interpreted as a reference to former secretary of defense mattis, rex tillerson, gary cohn. This is how kushner responded today and i want you to respond to that. Yeah, so, he actually mischaracterizes who i was referring to. Obviously the people that we had, some people from the campaign, who were in there who were obviously always trying to tell the president with confidence without the real facts. You just said woodward says you were referring to general mattis, tillerson and gary cohn. Youre saying thats not who you meant. No, thats not clear. He has tapes of everything, i have tapes of everything. That was never implied in that regard. I want you to respond. Yeah, first of all, this is the whole trick. And you have to give kushner an Academy Award for saying, oh, well, i mischaracterized. And then he goes on to say, some people from the campaign who were in there, suggesting that he was talking about campaign people. As he says, i have tapes, he has tapes i could prove to you that he was talking about people who worked in the white house, who were in the administration, who were these overconfident idiots and mattis and tillerson and coates are the ones that left and President Trump, when i asked him about mattis said, oh, hes just a pr guy. Publicly called tillerson, who was his secretary of state, dumb as a rock. He anyway, its and general kelly. He said kelly wasnt up to the job, in over his head, that sort of stuff. I mean, it does strike me with this president , i mean, everybody is a sucker or a loser or, you know, what are some of his other everybodys an idiot, theyre a sucker, theyre a loser. It is his view, his of all the people around him. Unless you praise him and especially if youre a dictator and then its fine until suddenly he senses that youve turned against him and then all of a sudden youre an idiot, too. No, its not you dont have to turn against him. What i mean, people like coats and tillerson and mattis were doing well, yeah, true. Their job. As i show in the book. I mean i mean think of these meetings that they have to have. National event conferences. Which are very supersecret. And mattis was is in charge of the defense department. Trump authorized mattis and trump confirmed this to me to shoot down an incoming missile from north korea on his own authority. And mattis took this seriously because he realized the Nuclear Arsenal that north korea had was stunning. It was hidden. It was probably a couple of dozen nuclear weapons. And so mattis is in his quarters and he has a light that will flash in case hes in the shower, ashower and there is a National Event conference called and he has to get on the secure line and watch the missile coming out of north korea, and in some cases it landed in the sea of japan. Right. None never came to the United States. But what a responsibility. Yeah. I want to play some some new sound, and its about the president s leadership and how he sees this moment in history. You asked President Trump about it. Lets listen. Was there a moment in all of this last two months where you said to yourself, you know, youre waking up or youre, you know, whatever youre doing and you say, ah, this is the leadership test of a lifetime . No. No . I think it might be, but i dont think that. All i want to do is get it solved. There are many people that said that to me. They said youre now a wartime president. Who said that first to you . Oh, many people have said that to me. I dont want to think about it. Might make it concrete. I dont like to sit back and think about that kind of thing. Why . Because i dont have that much time to think about it, bob. Im busy as hell. Its like when he was asked about what his favorite bible passage is. You know, theres so many he cant even name one. The idea that theres a lot of people telling him hes a wartime president. It sounds like more like he, himself, is the one who said hes a wartime president , but did his explanation make any sense to you . He said that publicly. Its like when he says people are talking. He says hes as busy as hell, but last week he said he watched foxs morning show and all their prime time programs, Binge Watching fox. Just compared to other president s, all the president s you have interviewed or reported on, i mean, the word liar is not a word reporters generally use to describe a president. But in this administration, its i dont use that word. I know. It is i hadnt until really this administration. Because it is there is no way that the president does not understand what he is saying is not factually correct. And so there is both intent and not just incorrect information, but it seems to be repeated intent to to mislead. Look, im not a psychiatrist. Im not i cant put my finger on his motivation. My i mean, where he says i think you played this. Well, i dont understand him. I think thats a fair point. But what im trying to do is describe his actions and his motives and the result of his actions. And he a couple of friends of mine have said, you know, theyve read the book and they say these are psychiatric hours. They are not psychiatric hours. I that is not my business. My business is to find out what happened and what he is willing to say about it. And what astounded me is he would let me push him. On the impeachment issue, i went down to maralago and essentially for 20 minutes did the impeachment interrogation of him that the senate and the house was never able to do. And we were shouting at each other. Another time he called the house and my wife elsa said, you know, youre shouting at the president. And she said you shouldnt be shouting at the president. And i said, well, ive got questions to ask. Yeah. What is was important for me is that he would let me do that. Yeah. Stay with us. 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What made you do that . A conclusion based on overwhelming evidence. I i looked i was typing along and the epilog, and out it came. And i realized and consulted people that that was actually my obligation. I got as close as an outsider might get to the inner trump and what how the white house works and functions. And i can i tell a quick do i have a moment to tell a story about Katherine Graham who was the owner and the publisher of the washington post. I would love to hear. Weve got, like, two minutes. Okay. Im going to do it q