Such transcripts are typically stored. Instead, the transcript was loaded into a separate electronic system. And this was not the first time under this administration that a president ial transcript was placed into this codewordlevel system solely for the purpose of protecting politically sensitive rather than National Security sensitive information. The president says it was a perfect call. Then why move mountains to conceal the record . And if its all fine, why call the whistleblower basically a spy and suggest they should be killed . Yes, thats where we are. So lets talk to players on both sides about where were going. Congresswoman maxine waters, chair of the House Finance committee. Its good to see you. Good to be here. Thank you. Delighted to be with you this evening. Very important moment. Yes. After today yes. Where were you left in terms of the strength of conviction you have about what youre dealing with . Well, i have, for a long time, paid a lot of attention to this president , even before the inauguration of the president , watched him very closely during his campaign, and i decided based on everything that he revealed about himself that he was someone with a flawed character and that he was not deserving of the presidency and he was going to be a problem. And so he has turned out to be everything that i suspected he would be, and he has dishonored the office of the presidency. And so with all of this new revelation about his conversation with the president of ukraine, it rings true. Do you think you know enough at this point, congresswoman, to say there is enough here for articles of impeachment . Absolutely. Already . The president himself admitted that he had a telephone conversation with the president of ukraine. He also said he did talk to him about biden. And i believe that in that conversation he did exactly what is being said about the conversation by others, that he was asking this president to help him with the kind of investigation that would lead to dirt on biden. You would accept no other explanation . There is no other explanation. What did he do, just call him to say congratulations . Im conducting foreign powers, im trying to create a relationship, were worried about corruption, were worried about the integrity of our elections, and im making sure that the president of ukraine knows that and does everything he can. Absolutely not. That would not be consistent with the character of this president. This president has basically refused to condemn putin knowing that russia interfered with our election, undermined our democracy in the last president ial election, and really was setting up a way for ukraine to undermine our elections by getting dirt on biden he says im not dumb, i know people are listening. You think im dumb enough to Say Something like that knowing everybodys listening . No, but i think hes brazen enough. I think hes gotten away with enough that he does not believe that we can do anything to stop him. He has discovered the awesome powers of the presidency. The constitution of the United States never anticipated that a president would use his powers this way. And he has learned that he can get away with it. Hes brazen. How did you take what i thought was one of the more surprising things weve heard from him, especially in the context and the timing of today, this is what he said in reaction to what was exposed in the hearing today. Whos the person who gave the whistleblower the information . Because thats close to a spy. You know what we used to do in the old days when we were smart . Right . The spies and treason. We used to handle it a little differently than we do now. He seems to be suggesting a very dark fate. But do you this is consistent with the way the president has conducted himself dont forget, at some of his rallies, he encouraged, you know, beating up on folks who were out there opposing him. Hes done this several times. He said that he could stand up in the middle of fifth avenue and shoot somebody and get away with it. A lot of people in his party today, though, seem very concerned about leaks and that there was almost equal animus about them as to anything the president did on the phone call. How do you feel about that . Well, i dont see the whistleblower as leaking. I see these people as being concerned about this country and about the security of this country. I think they saw and heard and experienced something that made them believe that the president of the United States was moving in a very dangerous way and that it was urgent and they had the responsibility to Say Something, to do something about it, and this whistleblower talked to a number of people, as i understand it, and they all were worried an concerned that the president had conducted himself in a way that was not in the best interests of this country. Do you believe that you have to have hearings that develop all of the different aspects of what led to that conversation . Because the conversation in itself arguably is or is not enough to meet the standard of impeachment, which is a very gross abuse of power. You know the standard. I dont have to tell you. But who knew . Who helped in the state department . Who told you people in congress the different stories about why the money wasnt being released absolutely. Giulianis role, the a. G. s role. Dont you need to know that first . I think thats a part of the impeachment proceedings that will go on. If you can recall, in clinton, there were hearings, and we had witnesses come in. We had people talk about various aspects of the accusations. That will be a part of what we do. Youre saying youre ready to go now. Oh, well, i think we will be ready to go very shortly because as you know, the way the speaker has talked about it, the six committees that have been doing the investigations will come together and the speakers already said the latest revelations about the telephone conversation, the president with the president of ukraine, has caused us to be focused and understand that something has gone on here that absolutely rises to the level of possible impeachment. So two hurdles in making the case to some of the democrats that arent on board and frankly the American People. Most are. One, all that other stuff that weve been hearing about for all these months, actually over a year that was so important, that maybe you had to impeach, thats all gone. Is the suggestion that it didnt really matter that much to begin with . Well, its not all gone. What we are saying is this will be the focus. It is so recent. And i think people understand it a lot better now. And i think that all of the other things may be considered. And with this being the focus, maybe one our two other things. What we have not decided is exactly whats going to go into the impeachment resolution. But we do think that this will be high on the agenda. And then the key part will be, once you know everything you know, the idea of why it reaches the standard of impeachment. Yes. And obviously well have to wait until you have everything in front you have that you feel confident to make that case. Congresswoman, thank you so much. Such an important night. Delighted to be here. You always have an invitation on this show in these important times to explain to the American People whats going on and why. I appreciate that. And thank you for having me this evening. Pleasure. Be well. Thank you. All right, now, ahead, clearly, the democrats have a tall task, and its made all the tougher by the fact that the other side of the aisle could not be more opposed to their efforts. We saw that today. We have a republican who questioned the president s acting dni in that hearing this morning. You have to hear what the democrats are up against. Next. At fidelity, we believe your money should always be working harder. Thats why your cash automatically goes into a Money Market Fund when you open a new account. Just another reminder of the value youll find at fidelity. Open an account today. Of the value youll find at fidelity. Walking a dog can add thousands walking this many . Day. That can be rough on pams feet, knees, and lower back. Thats why she wears dr. 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In patients with sickle cell disorders, serious, sometimes fatal crises can occur. The most common side effect is bone and muscle ache. If youd rather be home ask your doctor about neulasta® onpro. Pay no more than 5 per dose with copay card. No surprise. There was a house divided at the hearing today. Representative chris stewart, republican from utah, was in todays house hearing. He questioned the acting dni. Now we have him here with us. Congressman, welcome to prime time. Good to be with you. Its good to be with you. Just at the outset, you know you are always welcome on this show, not just to talk about this, but what matters to the American People. I want you as part of the conversation. I appreciate that. And youve always said that and believe youre sincere. Good. Especially now, we need it. We need to have as many different voices showing this country. One of the things i thought was interesting today in your questioning of the acting dni, you went out of your way to say, dont dishonor mr. Ga mire because of his record of service. Fair point. Yeah. I also thought it was interesting you that didnt ask him anything about what happened in the phone call or the surrounding. You are not curious about any aspects of the phone call or the implications of it . Well, for one, ive read the transcript. So i dont think he could cast any light on it. And the other is that hed been asked by, i dont know, half a dozenor people already, and they had asked those questions. So, there really wasnt anything new that i could have asked that hadnt been asked already or that i didnt feel like i already knew. Are you bothered by the call or the surrounding circumstances . I want to back up if i could, chris, just because i think its so important. And this is a man who served his country for 36 years. And in the last week or ten days, hes been accused of breaking the law, hes been accused of being a political stuj for the president. Hes been accused of protecting the president , without any evidence at all. And i just think it was fair and important to give him a chance to respond to that. Would have been nice for him to answer some of the procedural issues also. I get that he was in a tough spot. He was. The statute, frankly, fair reading, with a lawyer background, is its designed for the intelligence community. Yeah. I get that. But the idea that when you are faced with it, you go to the white house and the a. G. When you know they are both implicated in the complaint, its going to raise questions. Well but he had no choice. And general clapper, who was a former dni, who is no friend to this president as you know, was on just moments ago, and i had a chance to hear him and he said exactly what ive been saying. He had no choice. Mr. Maguire and the i. G. Were both caught in a very difficult circumstance. Ive had a chance to spend hours with him now. I believe theyre both sincere individuals trying to serve their country. The law seemed to be deficient or as you said it was mute on this. And they just didnt know what to do. I think it was designed for the intel community. Clapper told me on the show he didnt think he had any latitude, meaning that whenever he got a complaint he had to deliver it over. Well, he also said just previously that he had to go to the office of Legal Counsel for advice because there was this discrepancy. And i think thats what youre alluding to about him going so thats the acting dni. We heard from him today. Maybe well hear from him again. You have to see where the situation takes you. But the idea of whats in that complaint, the phone call is not the sum total of the situation. Its just a window into a process that had been going on for over a year that involved mr. Giuliani, the president , and who knows in the state department and the white house dealing with you guys in congress about the funding. What are you concerned about in any of that . Well, the essence of the complaint is only the phone call. Everything else is just public reporting. Things that we weve talked to lots of officials, congressman, who said they have concerns about how the transcript was stored, about what was being done with the ukraine relationship and for whose benefit. The essence of this report was about the phone call. I mean, anyone can read it. Now, they can talk about, well, they had concerns about whether it was what computer it was stored. But you cant tell me that thats going to be the essence of an impeachment hearing. It has to be the essence of this phone call. Thats 90something percent of our concerns. Well, when you say the phone call, is the question for you did the president of the United States solicit information about an potent that could be helpful to him in his election from a foreign power . He clearly asked the foreign opponent to or the Foreign Government to do an investigation of what he felt was corruption. Now, ive got to tell you, to be honest, i dont think i would have said that. It makes me uncomfortable. But president s do things that make me uncomfortable all the time. And you dent impeach them for it. When president obama said to the russian president , president medvedev, give me after the election and ill have more latitude. Or the thing weve been talking about more recently, when Vice President biden went there and and inn demand demanded they fire this prosecutor and threatened to withhold aid biden. Im sorry. Vice president biden. That made me uncomfortable. But i didnt call for impeachment on either one of them. But you have something that is clearly in contravention of a statute here. If you ask a foreign power for anything of value in your election, you break the law. No. Thats just not true. Look, theres been all sorts of analysis on this, including Legal Counsel at the department of justice regarding this phone call. And they looked at it and said, we dont even think its an f. E. C. Violation. I know. But they were looking at it when the a. G. Mentioned in the situation. Shouldnt he have recused himself . Your presumption is every one of them is corrupt. No, no. If anything we were hearing way too much about those people being corrupt from people on your side of the aisle for the last year and a half. I dont believe that. Im saying the a. G. Being mentioned maybe would have create aid disposition of carefulness inside the doj in reviewing a matter that hes involved in. Therefore they had a corrupt decision . No, im saying you create just like with biden, you create the appearance of impropriety by him not saying ive got to recuse myself from this. Im mentioned here. But chris, you stated definitively that he broke the law. This was a violation of the law. And im telling you no, not the a. G. Im saying the president soliciting look, we have the statute up on the screen for people. Thats what the law says. Its not what i say. And im telling you there are attorneys that very intelligent attorneys who specialize in this area of law who say thats absolutely not true. So you can ask a foreign power lets say stewart and cuomo are running against each other. I can say im running against stewart, do you know anything about him when he was there . And they say yeah, look at this, we have this whatever. Oh, thank you. And i use it in our election. Youre okay with that . What im saying is theres two things that are very important. What im saying is what the president did here, many attorneys who specialize in this area of law say its not a violation of law. But the more important thing is ive been asked this before. Then youd never, never do it. And i say it depends. And surely you agree it would depend. Let me give you a very easy example. Lets say a very close ally, the united kingdom, came to you, this is someone you trust, theyre a friend and they came to you with clear evidence saying one of your opponents was involved with, say, the molestation or the Sexual Assault of a child. Are you telling me you wouldnt do something with that . Id say go to the fbi. Thats exactly right. But you would do something with it. No, no, no. I would say, go to the fbi, i cant have anything to do with this. But you wouldnt just sit on it. Youd do something with it. Thats the opposite of what the president did. Im saying that you would make it go to the right authorities. I wouldnt try to get it for my own advantage. But thats what some people have suggested, is that you couldnt do anything with it. And i just think thats nuts. Ive been criticized for saying of course you would do something they say when someone comes to you look, you know what were talking about here. If you go to a foreign entity and say help me, youre not supposed to ask. I thought we all agreed on that after mueller, that one thing that we all dont want is a foreign power messing with our elections or people going to a foreign power to mess with the election. I think we agree with that actually. And maybe you misunderstood me because we do agree on that. I said it makes me uncomfortable. I said some of the things that other president s have done have made me uncomfortable. The question is, and i think this is a real central thing that we need to talk about here now, is does it rise to a level high crime and disme knee nor and should that individual be impeached . I gave you examples of things president obama, Vice President biden you think either of those stack up to this . I think theyre very, very similar. Really . Of course. Of course. How is what vp biden did the same as this . Because he went there and said, you fire that prosecutor. And he threatened to withhold a billion dollars worth of aid. And his son was associated with a company that was being investigated. Are you telling me thats not concerning . But let me make my other point because i really think this is key. It doesnt matter what i think. It doesnt matter what 217 democrats think. It matters what the American People think. And when president nixon, when he was impeached, everyone knew that he violated he went into there was he broke into the it was a felony. Then he covered it up. And there was obstruction of justice. When president clinton was involved with a intern, someone half his age, and lied to the grand jury, in both of those circumstances, the American People looked at it and they just intuitively know thats wrong. So you think that you only do what the American People say you should do . Im saying, if youre going to impeach, the American People have to support it. Really . Of course. What if they dont understand the circumstances the way that you do . Then you have to convince them. You have to convince the American People. Then why havent you guys done gun reform when 90 of the people want it . Well, thats a completely different no, it isnt. Its the same principle. If you want to talk guns no, im saying the president does too im saying, if youre going to impeach a president , you have to convince the American People that its the right thing. So if 50 of the American People say they want it then youre okay with it . I think you have to convince i dont want to say its based on polling. But if you how would you know . If we dont do that, then the next president s going to be impeached. And the president after that. Because there is no perfect presidency. And if you dont have a high threshold for impeachment where the majority and i would say the vast majority of americans support that, there will never be a president who serves his time in office again. And you dont see any difference between you think this this president what he did, what vp biden did, and what president obama did . You see them all as equal . I actually think Vice President bidens is much worse. Really . Yes. Him acting under color of authority of the United States government how could it not be worse . With the eu, the Ukraine Parliament voting and other western democracies and ngos all asking for the ouster of the same prosecutor. He acts openly as the vp, holding back money, trying to get rid of the prosecutor. The president said he bragged about getting rid of a prosecution. Thats not true. He got rid of a prosecutor. The guy started an investigation before his son worked there. After that prosecutor left the next prosecutor looked at it even more and cleared the guy. And you think thats the same as calling the ukraine president and saying investigate my opponent . I feel again, i actually think its worse. Really . Yes, of course. And i dont know how you could argue with that. He is the Vice President we are equally shocked, congressman. Hes the Vice President of the United States who went there and demanded that they fire a prosecutor who was investigating the company his son was being paid by. And threatened to withhold aid from that company or that country if he did not. Youre okay with that you yourself said it was a quid pro quo. Absolutely theres a quid pro quo, because he said, if you dont get rid of this prosecutor, the United States isnt giving you the money. Youre forgetting the main element. Personal gain. You have to show that his son you dont think his sons wellbeing, Financial Wellbeing they opened the investigation before the son got there. He was investigated more after the prosecutor left and cleared. You dont think that his sons Financial Wellbeing was for his personal gain . Because i think it clearly was. I know. But what im saying i know what you think. What im saying is, how was it in bidens interest to do that the way it was in this president s interest to do that . I guess, look, i guess thats the question you guys are going to have to pursue the American People can look at that. I think most americans i can see how its in his personal interest to protect his sons financial but you dont see this as being in this president s personal interest . No, i said i see them very clearly in parallel. But you asked me which i thought was worse. I dont know, you tell me. But you cant say this ones okay and this ones bad. Theyre very, very similar. I think you can make the argument that it is but thats the course Going Forward and you are always welcome here. As we go along the process to make your case to the people. I want them to hear it. Thank you, congressman. I appreciate it. All right. The attorney general as we were just discussing is named in the whistleblower report. He was named on the phone call. What does that mean . Does he have any exposure here . Was there any responsibility put on him because of that . So were going to look into with a couple of people with investigative backgrounds that go deep into the functioning of the doj, what is the exposure, what are the questions . Next. Dealing with Psoriatic Arthritis pain was so frustrating. My skin. It was embarrassing. My joints. They hurt. The pain and swelling. The tenderness. The psoriasis. I had to find something that worked on all of this. I found cosentyx. Now, watch me. Real people with active Psoriatic Arthritis are getting real relief with cosentyx. 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And then theres performance that just leaves you feeling better as a result. Thats the kind lincolns about. Here, hello starts with hi mple. How can i help . A data plan for everyone. Everyone . Everyone. Lets send to everyone [ camera clicking ] wifi up there . Ahhh. Sure, why not . Howd he get out . a camera might figure it out. That was easy glad i could help. At xfinity, were here to make life simple. Easy. Awesome. So come ask, shop, discover at your xfinity store today. All right. We have three quick questions that came up in important ways this morning. Two experts, an investigation to handle them. Jim baker and andrew mccabe. Welcome back, gentlemen. Andrew, let me start with you. What the president said about guys like this, the guys that talked to this whistleblower, maybe even the whistleblower, theyre basically spies. You know what we used to do with them. Your take . Yeah. Horrendous. Horrendous, chris. This is first of all, its the president doing exactly what the whistleblower protection statutes say you cant do, which is attempting to retaliate against somebody for filing a complaint using proper channels. I will also tell you that having experienced a very similar baseless charge from the president , it is absolutely chilling. Even though its President Trump and he frequently says things that are baseless and absolutely wrong, to hear the president of the United States call you treasonous and call for your execution is absolutely terrifying. So that is a message that im sure all those u. S. Government employees in his presence this morning received loud and clear. Jim, give me a thumbnail sketch of the operative and legal distinction between what were dealing with on the president of this call with the president of ukraine and that solicitation and what vp biden did with ukraine in his capacity as Vice President. Well, theyre completely different. And i think one of the things that concerns me the most is people keep talking about these criminal statutes and whether they apply to the president and who violated what and so on. I think you need to forget that. What you need to focus on is the constitution and whether the president violated his oath of office and abused his power. And to me the thing that is the most alarming about the phone call and what i think is really at the foundation of what people should be concerned about is that the phone call evidences an effort by the president to use the power of his office to keep himself in power. Thats really what this is about. And with all due respect to the congressman from a few minutes ago, i disagree, because these other cases that he was trying to bring up dont are not about somebody trying to use their power to stay in power. Thats really what this is about. And thats about the constitution and not about a criminal statute per se. And the idea that you can solicit a foreign power for information that is beneficial to you in an election under some circumstances, what circumstances . None. No, you cant. You should not be able to. Yeah, none. Exactly. Because he says that there are legal experts who say sometimes its okay. Do you know of any case where its okay . Well, you know, in the mueller report, they got concerned about whether some of the activities qualified under the particulars of the statute because they had a hard time putting a value on opposition research. And thats why im saying, like, with respect to the president , forget all the other people, forget the statues, its the question of whether he violated his duties and responsibilities under the constitution. It just lets you know what youre dealing with here in terms of partisanship about how far people will go on one side to justify being against this analysis. But at the same time, that side feels that the left is going way too far in making this happen. The idea of the storage of the information, andrew, that this would have been put into a different passwordprotected directory, the congressman referred to it as another computer. Its not another computer. Its an entirely different system. What is the concern and what is the occasion where youve heard of this being done before . Well, ive never heard of it being done in this sort of circumstance. The system thats been referred to is one thats created specifically for our absolutely most sensitive secrets, codewordprotected information, things of that nature. And therefore, it is designed to hold information to the smallest possible audience, the smallest possible group of highly vetted people are the only folks that can see whats in there. So the effort to put the transcripts of these calls or evidence of these communications into that system is clearly an effort to limit the availability of the opportunity for folks to see what took place on this call. The call itself does not call for that sort of treatment. It is not classified at the level, its certainly not compartmented information that would require it being put in that system. Jim, what do you believe are the big boxes that need to be checked Going Forward for this to rise to the level of something that might be impeachable . I am not sure that were not there already. I mean, i think that transcript is quite alarming. Its not actually a literal transcript, right . But the substance of the call, thats alarming enough. I mean, if that kind of activity is acceptable, then i dont really know where we are as a country. Of course, the congress has to conduct some amount of logical investigation, figure out, maybe, who else might be willing to come forward, whether there are other whether theres data and facts and circumstances that might corroborate that, but theyre going to be investigating the president directly and trying to get information from the white house. Thats going to be pretty tough. So im not really sure where theyre going to go. I think the question is whether on its face this transcript is an impeach constitutes an Impeachable Offense or not. And they can try to do other investigation but i dont really know where theyre going to go with it. Andrew, chance out of 10 that mr. Giuliani winds up being right and that he comes out a hero because of what we discover about the bidens or about the interference that happened in ukraine . Minus 10. I dont think theres any chance of that happening. I think rudys done an incredible job of once again casting up a Conspiracy Theory thats attracted a lot of attention. Its served his purposes of creating a counternarrative to distract folks away from what is some very serious allegations about the president and mr. Giulianis conduct. But that doesnt make any of those conspiracy theories true. Theres still yet to be a single piece of evidence that anybodys uncovered that indicates that Vice President biden or his son were found to have done anything wrong. In fact, the ukrainians have said repeatedly that they didnt find anything there. So yeah, i really dont see that theres much at the end of that road. Still an open question. Theres no question that he got biden into the conversation, but it also seems that everything picked up a lot of momentum against the president and him after his outbursts and his making of that case. Jim, thank you very much. Andrew, as always. Appreciate it, fellas. Democrats are hovering at the threshold number of votes for articles of impeachment already. What about the holdouts . We have one, congressman connor lamb from pennsylvania. What did he think of today . What does he need to do . What does he need to see to get anywhere near impeachment . Find out next. They give us excellent customer otservice, every time. E. Our 18 year old was in an accident. Usaa took care of her car rental, and getting her car towed. All i had to take care of was making sure that my daughter was ok. If i met another veteran, and they were with another insurance company, i would tell them, you need to join usaa because they have better rates, and better service. Were the gomez family. Were the rivera family. Were the kirby family, and we are usaa members for life. Get your Auto Insurance quote today. Morning. What are you doing . Isnt it obvious . Nah. Were delivering live market coverage and offering expert analysis completely free. Were helping you make sense of the markets without cable or a subscription from anywhere you are. I get that. But what are you doing here . Nice pajamas. Really . I say pajamas. Pajamas, pajamas, whichever. Good. Yahoo finance live. Stream free anywhere. Welcome to the show. Lets make finance make sense. Pain happens. Saturdays happen. How. Aleve it. Aleve is proven better on pain than tylenol. When pain happens, aleve it. All day strong. The numbers. The numbers are a big part of this story. Just over the past three days, more than 75 Democratic House members have thrown their support behind an impeachment investigation. The democrats now have more than 200 behind the probe. We dont know how they might actually vote at the end of all this, but there are still about 16 House Democrats who have not been persuaded. One of them is congressman connor lamb of pennsylvania. Good to have you on the show. Thank you for having me. Howd you feel about today . I thought today was a historic day, an historic week. The facts have clearly changed. But one thing that i felt about today is it kind of shows the important thing about the american system, and it shows that that system is working. A person came forward following the procedures laid out in the law. They were protected. And it is allowing us to finally start to get to some of the facts that people have been wondering about for a while. And that wouldnt have happened in a lot of places around the world. Certainly wouldnt have happened in russia. I think we can take some pride in that today. The president says this guy, the people who talked to him, bunch of spies. And we used to take care of them in a very different way. What does that mean to you . Its just not accurate. This person literally followed the letter of the law from beginning to end. The complaint is one of the more carefully drafted documents ive seen in my time in washington. And in fact, weve all thought that it was wrong when people do things the other way, you know, the snowdens and the mannings who just leaked out into the public when they wanted to. This person really took care to do it the right way. And the i. G. And the dni sort of recognized that. So thats why i do think it shows that the system can work right. What do you need to see in order to believe that any of this is worthy for articles of impeachment . Well, i think there are a lot of questions raised by this whistleblower complaint. Youve talked about some of them on your show. The whistleblower talks about speaking to other people in the white house about this separate server, about giuliani and his role in all this and how it could have affected our policy in ukraine. And i think i and the American People want answers to all those questions. But this is clearly, were in a different place today than we were last week because of these allegations and i think thats going to ramp up the urgency behind this investigation a lot and i support that. What does it mean to people in the country that the democrats are saying, we just want to focus on this and ukraine, forget about all the other stuff . Might that make people feel like all that other stuff you were saying was so important, now it isnt anymore, only this matters . Why . Im not sure, but i think the important thing about this week is that we have become very focused as a group on making sure this is first and foremost in the investigation, and that we stay locked in on that and we foal low the facts, wherever they lead. Not in a partisan way, in a way that is just about uncovering evidence and taking this thing step by step. And thats what many of us tried to do this week. You know, i waited until the last couple of days to speak more publicly about it, because i wanted to see the actual evidence first. Where are you now . Are you in favor of what you guys are calling an impeachment inquiry . You believe its warranted . I absolutely support chairman schiffs investigation, everything hes doing. The speaker put the impeachment inquiry label on that on monday. So thats what it is. I never thought that was the most important question. What people ask me about when i go home are the facts. What happened and why. Especially given the situation in the ukraine. Right . That is an urgent National Security threat. We are there because any russian invasion in Eastern Europe is bad for our allies and bad for us. And i think people are wondering now. How many parents in my district send their children to serve in the military, thinking that the commander in chief will always look out for them and everyone else . And thats in question after a complaint like this. So so congressman lamb is one of the number now who is invested in an impeachment inquiry but you dont know how youre going to vote yet. I dont know that anyone knows how theyre going to vote yet i hear democrats chairman waters said shes ready to go tonight. But youre not. But you are now among those youre not a holdout from impeachment inquiry at all. Right. I guess what im trying to say is, those two categories have really been driven by the media and its been a very washington question this week. Whereas, i think on the ground, those of us who are experiencing this moment by moment, we are just trying to find out the facts. We didnt really care whether it was called an impeachment inquiry or regular inquiry. Chairman schiff has been investigating this for years at this point. And it didnt look a whole lot different last week from this week. What changed is that a courageous american stepped forward, willing to tell the truth as they experienced it. And now its on us to corroborate that, to investigate it, to find out whats behind it. You think youll be able to get to the bottom of it . Or you think the white house is just going to hold you up like its done to this point . Well, the whistleblower broke through. Right . We got the complaint. And the white house released the transcript. The American People i think are invested in this now. And we owe it to them to get to the bottom of it. So were not going to give up. Congressman lamb, thank you very much. Thank you for having me on. Appreciate the candor. Good luck Going Forward. Youre always welcome here to make the case to the American People. Thank you. All right. Be well. All right, so, look, weve been here before. And today did seem in some ways like a foul blast from the past. An argument about where we are but more importantly how we must proceed. Next. What are you thinking . Should always be working harder. 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Now shooting, no quid pro quo, nothing here, if theres no crime. And hes not the only one giving us whiplash. The argument works both ways. Heres house judiciary chair jerry nadler back then. Impeachment of a president is an undoing of a national election. They are ripping they are telling us that our votes dont count. So, i feel your frustration. But there is an argument to discontinue the connivances of political convenience. The country came out of a confusing period recently with one point of clarity. Foreign powers messing with our elections is bad, and no one should allow that or partake in it. While congress will debate the degree and consequence, there is no denying that this president did exactly what we all swore off. He contacted a foreign power and asked for help that would give him an advantage in an election, period. Hes offered no excuse or explanation. His defense is that biden is worse, and the whistleblower and the people who expressed their concerns around him are spies that we would have had meet a dark fate back in the days when america was great. The problem is with this president and his followers accuse biden of without proof is actually present in what this president did, and we have proof. You cant use words like cover up and abuse of power without making a very strong case of the same. Remember that. This phone call is not enough. Its a window into a wild episode, but one that was months in the making, and that will take time to show. Democrats have to overcome the political problem also that they have been saying they had enough to impeach before all this, and now they dont want to talk about any of that any more. The focus is narrow, just on ukraine. What about the other stuff . Does it matter any more . This cant just be about how the president behaves either. It cant be just about not liking what hes about. It has to be about overwhelming proof that he abused his office and enlisted the help of so many in such ways that he should forfeit what the people gave him. The bar is high. Only two things matter. First, answers to questions like these. Who are the people the whistleblower spoke to . Who dealt with ukraine and gave the impression that dealing with biden was a precondition to dealing with trump . Who read the transcripts . Why . Who at the state department worked with rudy . Why . Who in the white house gave different and inaccurate explanations for withholding funds that Congress Approved for ukraine . Why . Also, those answers to those questions, why do they matter and how much . Is it wrong or illegal . What is such a grave abuse that it all combines to meet the standard the framers gave us . It is only enough if what we can know by what congress can show facts, facts and facts alone they must force impeachment. Yes, force. Because if its not that compelling, then it is for an election. If it is not unavoidable, it must be avoided. If we cant recognize at the end of this that the outcome gives us the best obtainable version of the truth, then we lose. Worse, well be dangerously close to the dystopian reality that orwell thought was wild fiction in 1949. Where all that matters is the duplicity of double speak and the mindlessness of group think. Truth imaginary as a unicorn. Another caution of the proximity of fact and fiction these days. You know, orwell in that book 1984, he said that the final work of big brother wouldnt be finished until the first couple of decades until the 21st century, like right where we are now. Were already too close to what was supposed to be parity. Take us forward on fact. Make arguments that are too strong to avoid. And remember that we will all be remembered for the choices we make now. Again, i ask, how do you want to be remembered . 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While this ukraine drama unfolds, the Trump Administration is still intent on raiding military coffers to fund the president s border wall. 3. 6 billion, in fact, from hundreds of projects across the country. In a rare step, away from potus, in fact, republicans in the senate voted for a second time yesterday to end Trumps National emergency declaration. 541, 11 goppers crossing the aisle. Trump is expecting to shoot it down. Its not a veto majority. Maybe the gop is not fully in lockstep with trump. On the ukraine call and whistleblower report, some republican senators are uncharacteristically speaking up. Romney calling it deeply troubling. Ben sass, very troubling. Toomey, inappropriate. Portman and hurd also voicing their dissent. Those are house members. But if after the investigation the findings prove so damning that you can argue they demand impeachment and a removal trial and vote in the senate, its a big if. The question is what will republicans do . And for us, thats something to be on the look out for. All right. Thats all for us tonight. Thank you very much for watching. Theres a lot of news. Cnn tonight with d. Lemon right now. A lot of news. There are very few republicans who are coming out and voicing some concern about it, but there are some, at least at this point, so we shall see where that goes. Uncharacteristic with what weve seen. I do think, though, this is a tough one. There is so much flagrancy on that phone call. You can argue about whether its high crime and misdemeanor based on what we know now. You can tack about hunter biden and ethical considerations. Its fine. I think its false equivalence. To hear them at all is a reflection of how wild that phone call is and the suggestions of how long they worked with how many different tentacles to get to that point of that call to begin with. Well, its interesting. I saw your interview i cant remember the congressmaner. Chris stuart . Yes, earlier. Its just shocking to me. Listen, im not nothing personal against him, but how he can condone one and not condone the other, saying one is worse than the other, when the investigation wasnt even going on when hunter biden was part of the company. And then it was done by the time it was