More than 750,000 during the campaign. He raised the money in a pair of transactions. Two people familiar with the transactions tell the journal they could factor in cohen business air force. Being investigated by the fbi. This capped an a chaotic die at the white house. What do we know about why there are so many shifting stories about Michael Cohen and Stormy Daniels and president s role. Rudy giuliani was corda fating on this. Today the president said he didnt have the facts straight. A fascinating day here where it ends the week a very complicated and chaotic week. But more questions about what exactly the relationship was businesswise with the president Michael Cohen. And Stormy Daniels. For months we heard the president saying he had nothing to do with that. Now we know of course Rudy Giuliani he did. Now we learn the new information by the wall street journal reporting. It highlights the fact that is an unorthodox business arrangement with the president and Michael Cohen. Theyve had it a long time Rudy Giuliani trying to explain that this week. Trying to get it out all in the open which he says was a strategy discussed with the president clearly did not work. I think it speaks to the fact very complicated, very murky here. Certainly not an ordinary relationship with the president and his lawyer. And jeff, what are you learning about what kind of precip giuliani had before the fox interview. Anderson, we know that Rudy Giuliani has been working for the president for at least 15 days officially on the payroll as one of his lawyers. Of course theyve been friends a long time. The president has been looking for a lawyer for a long time. Rudy giuliani met with the president about two weeks ago at maralago. Decided to come onboard. They talked about this, had conversations about how this exactly would work. Rudy giuliani wanted to get it out in the open. But today on the south lawn of the white house when i asked the president how is rudy doing i was surprised by the president s answer. Lets watch. He started yesterday. Hell get his facts straight. He is a great guy. But what he does is he feels its a very bad thing for our country. I will tell you this, i will tell you this, when rudy made the statements rudy is great. But he just started and he wasnt totally familiar you know with everything. And rudy we love rudy. He is a special guy. What he really understands is that this is a witch hunt. He understands that probably better than anybody. So we heard a lot about a witch hunt. What we saw there is undermining. The president was essentially throwing Rudy Giuliani under the bus for what he did not like obviously was the media coverage, the president initially praised Rudy Giulianis defense of him. But then as we have seen so many times before he sees how this plays out, sees the white house is you know accused of changing stories which in fact they did. He didnt appreciate that at all. So essentially throws Rudy Giuliani under the bus. The credibility crisis is ratted in the president and the oval office not his new lawyer. Jeff, thanks very much i want to bring in the pan. Kirsten power was Gloria Borger laura coates. Gloria be the wall street journal report, all along Michael Cohen said i got a home equity line of credit to pay Stormy Daniels. I did it because im a loyal guy to mr. Trump. He didnt even know about it. Giuliani has now said it did have something to do with the election because it would have been bad. Then he stepped back from that. He said the president paid Michael Cohen through the retainer to me. Now the wall street journal was saying it wasnt just the 130,000 basically there were two transactions gained access to about 700,000 zmo over 700,000. As the campaign started to heat up. We dont know what he used the rest of the money for. We dont know if it was for the president , other business deals Michael Cohen was involved in. We dont know why he got the loans. We have no idea. We have no idea. What we do know is that the timing is interesting because as soon as the president started taking off in february of 2016 was when Michael Cohen started doing all these transactions. But as youve been saying we dont toe why Michael Cohen didnt respond to the wall street journal. We know he did pay of that 130,000 to Stormy Daniels which highly unusual. In and of itself. All along people are saying i never heard of an attorneying doing this. Right. Now there is an attorney who raised more money we dont know why. In ordinary times i dont remember what that is anymore. But in ordinary times if you were going to do something for a client of yours, you would tell them, number one. And you would just say bill the client for it. Number two. In this particular case, say with Stormy Daniels, the president originally said i knew nothing about it. And cohen said i do this on my own and i do it all the time for him. And Rudy Giuliani said sort of the same thing. So all of it kind of hard to put together. And parts of it are really hard it believe particularly because it was so close to the election. How could you not tell the candidate. Laura coates youre a legal analyst. Its unusual for any lawyer to pay the 130 thousand. But the idea that a lawyer would on his own without informing a client. Right. Build up even more money, what do you make of it. You have ethyl violations about not informing your client about creating legal exposure for him including jeopardy and peril. And there is the notion there is a president who said he had a minuscule amount of legal work he performed for the president. To build up a reserve for nonlegal matters process the bulk of the work is not lawful or not law related is very odd. What you see here however is that if the wall street journal was able to uncover this one of the things that has been bounz are bouncing is that perhaps giuliani was trying to get ahead of information was coming out of whatever information was raided from Michael Cohen, his office, his hotel room. If the wall street journal was able to come across this surely a author o investigators who has the weight of the sdny behind him was has it as well and he was trying to create a narrative. To us its all absurd. Im still going back to the thought of russia collusion which i dont see here. And injury the danger we see is that when you have i keep saying this anderson over and and over again. A special prosecutor prosecutor with a wide scope we all due respect i dent care how he got the line of credit. Its none of my business none of your business. It has nothing to do with the campaign. Nothing to do with President Trump. Wait, youre saying did we dont know if this happened youre saying if an toerp for the president set up a slush fund to deal and with things that might be you know, damaging to the president , thats not of interest to you. Or other things. Im sorry we dont know if thats the case. But thats one possibility that won of interest to you. Well no it wouldnt. Because i looked at a wall street journal article by the former head of the fec, the chairman of the fec he said just on face value, the is 130,000 was not a campaign violation. Now im not a lawyer. I didnt work in the fec but i would trust the former head of fec more so than political pundits. I am a lawyer. And i was a Voting Rights expert for the voting vision and. Thats not the the fec. That is thats why im clarifying the point. But the interesting notion. Notion and the irony of your statement you cannot care about but robert mourl mueller has carried about it either. He is not taking over whats happening in the new york case. He has farmed it out to a team and said this is not under the purview of my mane. In that respect he already concluded it doesnt have to do with collusion. But why its important is because you have a candidate we do have fec violations potentially that you point out, the distinction between the Civil Rights Division and the notion that if you have contributions that are excessive and potentially for the purpose of contributing to a campaign. Report it, or you dont disclose on a federal ethics form well then its of interest to American People who care about democratic transparency which i know you do. If the president was aware and there was a bank fraud committed. Isnt that relevant. The president said that he wasnt. I dont understand its called plus plausible. Rudy giuliani said the president was wasnt until ten days ago. Now he walks that back. We dont know the pr campaign that Rudy Giuliani was doing. The president was clearly not pleased with that. When the news originally broke we sat i dont know which trump sporer we were with. We were told we thought insane that we thought Michael Cohen was lying. We were all told we were completely crazy. I feel like you are doing again. Just trying to say there is nothing to see here. I would say even if there isnt a fec violation i think it matters the president lied. I may be the only person in america that gets upset when he lies. The fact that he flat out lied and Rudy Giuliani went on there and said all of this and trump stood by him that matters. I dont understand why it doesnt matter. The president didnt lie. First of all the didnt lie about it. Even if you want to go with Rudy Giulianis time line. Have you ever heard the president lie, not personal to you i mean to the American People. Have i heard the president lie . I cant off the top of my head i cant recall. Not off the top of my head, no but what i will tell. You you believe like millions of Illegal Immigrants vote in california and thats why Clinton Clinton won the popular vote. I believe that Hillary Clinton election because she did a horrible job. Thats what trump said. But. I think there is also a risk here were jumbling a bunch of things together. Miebl cohen clearly took out a line of credit which 750,000 whatever that is in new york. And were talking in the Property World in new york thats basically getting a shoe box. Its still a lot of money its lets not pretend. Michael cohen is in the taxi cab medallion business and has apartments and townhouses and different things. What with he dont know is what the money was taken out for. There is a temptation for folks to take that and jumble that into what does this have to do. Ive been clear we dont know. I dont think anybody said that. But the point. The point hold on one other thing going back to one other thing. I think one thing that trump world did smart this week was to actually establish or get going with the fact that they have now this outside council where they can start handling this. Because for in past year i think if they had an outside apparatus where the things were directed and this wasnt the responsibility of the white house, i think theyd be much better off and i think that it was good that mayor giuliani got in front and started if there is news like this rather than wait for the Washington Post or New York Times to break this news get it out there. Clearly there is some discrepancy with. What are you talking about i dont understand. He did the president a favor by doing what he did on sean hannity . If thats the case why did trump come out and throw giuliani under the bus saying, he is not prepared, he is like of an intern that started yesterday. It was smart with the president when the president said were going to have a statement with the president essentially did then was cut off any of the drip, drip, drip the media wanted to go to because they were never going to be satisfied with any answer that mayor giuliani gave. What the news continues to do is continue to slice off any remain ing there is any credibility from the white house and to me and to Many Americans he he has zero credibility. When he comes out and muddles things more, than they were before then it makes things worse. And i agree with kirsten. Its important and it matters. We have to take a break. More on this and also a why a judge involving the Paul Manafort now seems to be the president s favorite judge. And what he said to muellers team that did not bode well for muellers team. Later the man james comey was the one who suggested he briefed the president on the steele dossier. James clapper joins us. It took guts to start my business. But as it grew bigger and bigger, it took a whole lot more. Thats why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. With it, i earn unlimited 2 cash back on everything i buy. Everything. Whats in your wallet . So allstate is giving us money back on our bill. Well, that seems fair. We didnt use it. Wish we got money back on gym memberships. Get money back hilarious. With claimfree rewards. Switching to allstate is worth it. Now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ brillando, brillando, brillando ns™ juntos siempre vamos a estar brillando brillando brillando. Brillando sonando. Bailando, sonando, brillando and its time to get outside. Pack in even more adventure with audible. With the Largest Selection of audiobooks. Audible lets you follow plot twists off the beaten track. Or discover magic when you hit the open road. With the free audible app, your stories go wherever you do. And for just 14. 95 a month you get a credit, good for any audiobook. If you dont like it exchange it any time. No questions asked. You can also roll your credits to the next month if you dont use them. So take audible with you this summer. On the road. On the trail. Or to the beach. Start a 30day trial and your first audiobook is free. Cancel anytime, and your books are yours to keep forever. No matter where you go this summer make it better with audible. Text summer5 to 500500 to start listening today. Were talking about Michael Cohen money, repaying payoffs, truth and lies and more welcome to washington on friday night. Back with the panel. I mean, jason just in terms youre a great communication attention expert. Just if terms of you know communications, what do you make of just kind of the rollout of Rudy Giuliani. Because he was saying he coordinated with the president. But if you youve got to correct the stuff the next day and then the next day to another statement, thats never a good sign. Well lab of a unique Vantage Point in that i worked for mayor giuliani on his 2008 case and President Trump on his 2006 race. I know both men well. There is a massive difference between being the principal and speaking on behalf of a principal. Especially speaking on behalf of the principle, the current president of the United States, one of the greatest speakers out there. There is always that little bit of a a little bit of a daylight between them even though you might say there is no daylight between the person that you spoke speak for and the principle there is always going to be some. I think when mayor giuliani went out the first interview was good. They had one or two interviews too many. But, again, this is part of the challenge again when you speak on before of say the president of the United States. Because not only do you speak but you have the legal dynamic. Well, no because thats the point. Base che talked about him the way like the Grade School Gym teacher talked about you. He made a good effort. Hold on this is the point i made in the last segment. What the president did when the president went out he essentially cut off any of the talk the drip, drip, drip or people going at the time line or trying to poke holes in anything they were saying. But he said what he said was not right how can you say giuliani is doing a good job. Giuliani has thick skin. He is good enough friends with President Trump if there is a little bit of a love tap or pump rudy is fine. Its not a communications problem. Its a truth telling problem its a legal problem. They dent have a legal strategy. So first of all, they are getting together a new team. They had an old team didnt work out so well. Now they have a new team. They dont have a legal strategy. Thats why they dont is have a great press strategy. Because they dont have a clear message. So you cant blame it oul all on sort of the press person because if there were a clear message, maybe someone would be giving it. And ive been told they are looking for somebody to sort of be the person out there giving the message. This goes to my point this foes to my point that they should have had this in place a year ago. Im glad theyre getting mayor giuliani and jane rascon. And getting people out there. Dont you think you ought to be read in before you become the spokesman. This is how i think this happened. This is exactly how i think things happened with cohen. He goes donald i got this dont worry about it ill take care of dont you worry about gives him plausibility denialability. He does what he does with Stormy Daniels. Rudy giuliani says mr. President im on the team now im a new yorker avenatti on a new york. He you need a pit bull i got it dont you worry about it he goes your my guy got you do it he goes and does it and he says wait a minute thats not what i thought you were going to do you youre actually wrong. Thats what you saw today the president said. But the reason why thats problematic is who did giuliani replace . He replaced ty cob. He is not the personal attorney of the president of the United States. Thats the point im making he is not the personal attorney of the United States process. He is protecting the office not the incumbent. And the reason its problematic when you have inconsistenty in that office it exposes the Office Holder later on to Legal Precedents that could harm others. You remember clinton and nixon were 20 years apart. For a 20year period of time you had Supreme Court precedent that didnt imperil the office. Thats now you have the exposure. Thats the flaw in the communication strategy sfla what the president has now is he has bulldog that is can defend him. This is whats been missing for so long whether on the communications side or the legal side. He has marty and jane rascon. Emet flood. The president deserves top people out there defending him. Didnt the bulldog make a bigger mess on the paper. I dont want to use the term under the bus because its a cliche. But the argument has been all along he says it didnt have anything to do with the election. And Rudy Giuliani says it did have something to do with the election. Clarified it a little bit today. But trump comes out and and says giuliani has none of the fact right. He needs to get his facts straight. He did not say maria you cant say he had none of them right. The president didnt say that did the president say that in sno dont say the president said things he didnt. He said he didnt have all the facts. He said he is going to get all of his facts. Its the same thing jason come on. When you have to split hairs like that you know youre in trouble. Because but here is the other problem. And everybody on the panel. So trump oms comes out. You used clisha throws giuliani under the bus. He is not up to speed getting facts. But yet he tweets himself supposedly himself the facts that or facts that giuliani talked about during the sean Hannity Interview in terms of what this payment was and what it was for. It was called clean up. He was doing cleanup for his own attorney which by the way should never happen. So. Right. Our reporting on giuliani he brought in giuliani because he likes a and feels comfortable. He brought in the rasconss. But he wanted a star. Emet flood, is somebody the White House Counsel Don Mcgahn wanted in there. May be will be the white House Counsel if mcgahn leaves. But the team hasnt gotten its act together. Giuliani goes out there. Maybe the president said i want you to go out there. Everybody else was shocked. Didnt they speak before hand. Rudy said they did but who knows when. And the rest of the lawyers acted like i was told you threw a grenade. A judge questions Robert Muellers case against Paul Manafort. The president weighs in. Details ahead. If youd have told me three years ago. That wed be downloading in seconds, what used to take. Minutes. That guests would compliment our wifi. That we could video conference. And do it like that. snaps if youd have told me that i could afford. A gigspeed. A gigspeed network. Its like 20 times faster than what most people have. Id of said. Id of said youre dreaming. Dreaming definitely dreaming. Then again, dreaming is how i got this far. Now more businesses in more places can afford to dream gig. Comcast, building americas largest gigspeed network. Special counsel muellers legal appear investigative juggernaut hit a speed bump. A federal judge questioning the motivations in the prosecution of Paul Manafort. The judge saying it was aimed at getting him to flip on the president. Lawyers for manafort argue that the charges are outside the scope of the special counsels authority. Today speaking in dallas, the president singled out the judge for praise. Judge t. S. Ellis who is really something very special i hear from many standpoints he is is respected person. Suggested the charges before the u. S. District court for the Eastern District of virginia were part of muellers designs to pressure manafort into giving up information on President Donald Trump or others in the campaign. Then how does this have anything to do with the campaign, the judge asked . Let me tell you, folks . Were all fighting battles. But i love fighting these battles. Its really a grace. Disgrace. Thank you. And back now with the panel. Certainly i mean that a big set become for the mueller team. It was a set back. Yes. I think what the judge was saying was, look, i need justification for where youre going. In in lawsuit. And so what he wanted to look at is the unredacted version, you know congress got the redacted version. He wants to look at the unredacted version of what rosenstein wrote about the scope of the where the special counsel can go. Right. And so the judge ipg its a very legitimate question for a judge to ask. He asked it in kind of a snarky way. The judges was basically look like you dont care about the charges against manafort you want to him to flip. Thats largely the narrative people assume when talking about manafort that the Justice Department always wants the special counsel always wants a bigger fish than the one on the hook. But often times thats so incorrect that people are often looking at the person theyre targeting and the person theyre charge something their end game. But judges are almost notorious i know its not normally said. Theyre notoriously difficult op the federal prosecutors. They point out you have to have proof. The judge raises the point paris you made at the beginning which is this is supposed be po russia and collusion. Thats not where manafort seems to be. Exact. And this is why a lot of people that are supportive of the president are skeptical at the direction that this investigation is going, especially as it weighs into Michael Cohen and now its going deeper and deeper into his finances and seemsing to further in which from the original what we thought the original scope was with. And so all the judge did was clarify from the bench. What a lot of people are starting to feel. And this is why its so important that the Mueller Investigation is free from any sense of political politicalization. You know, the democrats that are on there and the people who had tweeted about Hillary Clinton tweeted negatively about President Trump. Thats why even though he fired them and got rid of them this is what people are talking about. He just determined it for a lot of people. Laura if the mueller team cant convince this judge that this is within their scope and they are legitimately interested in the charges against Paul Manafort just on the face of it, is it possible the charges will be tossed out which is what the Manafort Team wants its possible. Remember he raised this in washington, d. C. And in response that court said no, no were Going Forward baggs because although the people believe the directive of mueller was simply that focus on the collusion and the campaign, rosenstein also expanded it and said you are also able to look into the finances of Paul Manafort. And thats part of wrr directive as well. In the expansive notion of why they are targeting manafort particular it would fall under that same thing. What theyre hoping to do is that this is not somehow a vindictive as the president calls witch hunt against a person or theyre trying to get him to flip. Bank fraud is large willy zided on paper. Its not heavy witnesses. Its about the documents or not. The combination the documents rosensteins memo, the unredacted version i think will give clarity to the judge. He but he may have been speaking largely to an audience of one. Dont forget with manafort was doing business. It wasnt like he was doing business in the bronx he was doing business with in ukraine. Right russian president. With right with a pro russian president. Did this give you hope today . Did you see this as a Good Development jason. I think its a its an affirmation i think for a lot of Trump Supporters think, that this investigation is well beyond of scope of what its about. I think the comments today regardless of figure else that happens youll see the comments played over and over or tleet the words read out. These are tough comments from the judge for the prosecutors. Saying that or questioning why they were going after mafrpt manafort. And was the goal to get at President Trump. Keep in mind the legal dynamic. They are in the courtroom and going after paul mafrpt. There is a political dynamic here. If this gets further down the road, if democrats got the house back and push forward with impeachment there is a Strong Political dynamic. Youll see the comments from the judge brought up over and over. And i have never seen a federal judge throw it down like that in such purely political terms and say what are you doing . Im not a lawyer so im not this that world. It was shocking. Obvious youre a democrat. Did you think the judge went too far. Im not a lawyer so i dont have obviously that Legal Expertise but from what i hear and you let me know laura but you cant really assume what a judge ultimately is going to do by what they say. And the kind of comments that they make. I actually believe its good he did this. Because i agree that this should be a very high bar. Because at the end of the day if the case if the judge lets the case move forward then the skepticism there is no where to go with the skepticism. If he doesnt then im sure the mueller investigators will go in another avenue. Busy really do believe that the scope has everything to do with financial issues. With the bank issues, the finances, even as it goes back maybe ten or even more years. Ive always said that if you can go back and follow the money and everybody talks about following the money, if trump is beholden to the russians in in any way shape or form because of any money they gave him in the past then i think that is an issue now he is president of the United States. Kirsten, the president did continue to kind of distance himself from manafort. He called him a nice guy but only worked for him a couple of months. He was the campaign manager. So its interesting because when i was listening to it i thought i actually thought the judge sounded like he was auditioning for a jb in the trump administration. Is this normal . Its normal in the sense that a judge will be critical and not giving cater blanch to a frl prosecutor to give you overwhelming power. In fact the judge said we dont like to just hand over the reins to anyone in particular. You have to give credit to marchs counsel. They originally tried to bring these charges and lump them into the dc case saying its easier streamline everything together. You know you are facing the 12page indictment in washington, d. C. Why must we go across the river and do it there . And marchs counsel says its not the original stuff therefore doesnt stem from the same stuff. We want it they did a good strategic step to have it questioned. Had they net done that. The judge wouldnt have had opportunity to be critical. What you see here is unlike perhaps other legal strategies of trump surrogates including rump you have a strategic effort across all fronts saying im attack bag the scope and nature of the charges. Its smart it wont be successful but theyre mart what the judge did there has been so much of speculation and this could be the judge just said me the facts. Be accurate. And here is the problem. American people said you say its like he was auditions for a jb in the white house and you said he was talking to a audience of one. No he was doing what he was supposed. The audience of one i was referring to was Robert Mueller when he said i want ensure youre not just out to get the president the american charged with that role according to everyone, special counsel to investigate the Trump Campaign in the orbit is Robert Mueller. I wasnt making a den gas station about donald trump tor a federal judge but the point is well taken that many people believe he was talking to. We got to get a break the point is he was reading from a cnn report. Were no longer fake news. Thanks. Up next the president and alis push the narrative. President was right to fire james comey. And come up with reasons why. Well hear from James Clapper who was director of National Intelligence when this all started. Whoever came up with the term small business, never owned a business. Theres nothing small about it. Are your hours small . What about your reputation, is that small . When you own your own thing, its huge. Your partnerships, even bigger. With Dell Small Business Technology Advisors youll get the oneonone partnership you need to grow your business. Because the only one who decides how big your business can be, is you. The dell vostro 15 laptop, with 7th gen intel® core™ processors. Do you really think i woke up like this . New lumi glotion loreals first glowenhancing lotion for natural illumination say Bonjour Bonjour to an effortless glow new lumi glotion. From loreal paris. As if i woke up like this. Your company is and the decisions you make have far reaching implications. The right relationship with a Corporate Bank who understands your industry and your world can help you make well informed choices and stay ahead of opportunities. Pnc brings you the resources of one of the nations largest banks, and a local approach with a focus on customized insights. So you and your company are ready for today. Led californias fight ofor clean, renewable energy. Or he cleaned up pollution at the port of l. A. And created more goodpaying jobs. Antonio villaraigosa for governor. Because Antonio Villaraigosa millions got it done. Healthcare he defended womens healthcare, banned militarystyle assault weapons, banned workplace discrimination, and more. Antonio for governor. This week saw another few bricks in the wall of explanations for the firing of james comey. The latest according to the white house being the president doesnt need a reason but his lawyer Rudy Giuliani is giving another one. Retired Lieutenant GeneralJames Clapper was the director of National Intelligence when it started. Comey suggested he brief the president about the infamous dossier. Director clappers joins me now. I wonder what you make about the evolving explanations from the white house about why comey was fired. Its hard to know, anderson, what to make of it. I do think its perhaps a reflection of trying to avoid either the appearance or the substance of obstruction. And, again, im not the lawyer here. But i do wonder about that as these changes occur, explaining why comey was fired. And then of course the press secretary is just saying well we dont have to explain it. Well maybe technically they dont. But i think just as an obligation to the american public, there should be an explanation. And the of course the question also is how toes Robert Mueller view all of these changing explanations . And we dont know the answer to that. Thats a great question. Im sure he is wondering as well what actually was the motivation . You know, i guess i would go with the one the president offered himself, which was because of the investigation. When you heard Rudy Giuliani the other day on Television Talk about fbi agents who raiding Michael Cohen. And Michael Cohen said they were courteous and professional, describing them as storm troopers. It seems like down is up and up is down when you have a republican use to be known as a a law and order guy calling fiv agents doing their job lawfully executing warrants nazi storm troopers. I thought that characterization is reprehensible in and of itself. This is part of the general assault on our institutions, notably Law Enforcement and perhaps lesser extent the intelligence community. Which is not good for its not god for the country. And its certainly not good for the people in it. And the great men and women of the fbi that i know and have worked with over many years and to have them referred to that way by a member of the president s team as storm troopers is really reprehensible. I want to ask you about north korea, you know, because there is Rudy Giuliani said he believes the three americans being held are going to be released. Hopefully that is certainly the case. You actually went over to north korea. Right. Under the during the Obama Administration and got the release of two americans at the time. Right. And that was all the americans being held at that time. Can you talk about what that was like . I know you carried a letter from president obama. You didnt meet directly with kim jong un, right. No, i did not. For me it was pretty stressful. Because North Koreans have their own arcane processes for actually the actual administrative release of the prisoners. And it wasnt when i went to retrieve the two i did on november 14 it wasnt until the last minute whether it was for sure we were going to get them. Do they saw in advance of you going there is a good chance . Or are you just going on kind of the well, yes, the expectation was in my case that they would be released. But they what they expected was a to use their term, a breakthrough, since i was the first cabinet level official to visit north korea since albrite. They want add high level official sflo they wanted with the promise i would get our two citizens out. But when i didnt show up through a breakthrough proms promise, peace negotiations they were bitterly disappointed and then played games with us for a couple of days. All to say i think the lesson is the less said the better. And it makes me nerves apprehensive when for pr purposes we are talking about the release of the americans and that could give the impression to the North Koreans if theyre contemplating the release that they are being taken for granted. Is it like negotiating with a rational actor . I mean, is it like a regular business negotiation . Or is it punching into a marsh mallow you dont know what the ripple effects are. The North Koreans are rational. And that was certainly reinforced when i engaged with them. They are very smart. And they had their own narrative they are committed to it. As long as you understand that and can deal with the narrative and can push back on them in a somewhat respectful way theyre okay. We got our two people out. And that was the main purpose of the mission. I always felt a little frustrated though when i left that we didnt use that opportunity to engage with them more. General clapper fascinating thank you very much. Thanks anderson. Coming up, a story of of well actually well just more news ahead. Well be right back. It took guts to start my business. But as it grew bigger and bigger, it took a whole lot more. Thats why i switched to the spark cash card from capital one. With it, i earn unlimited 2 cash back on everything i buy. Everything. Whats in your wallet . Whats going on . Oh hey thats it . Yeah. Thats it . Everybody two seconds dear sebastian, after careful consideration of your application, it is with great pleasure that we offer our congratulations on your acceptance. Through the Tuition Assistance program, every day mcdonalds helps more people go to college. Its part of our commitment to being americas best first job. If you have moderate to severe plaque psoriasis, Little Things can be a big deal. Thats why theres otezla. Otezla is not an injection or a cream. Its a pill that treats psoriasis differently. With otezla, 75 clearer skin is achievable after just 4 months,. With reduced redness, thickness, and scaliness of plaques. And the otezla prescribing information has no requirement for routine lab monitoring. Dont use if youre allergic to otezla. Otezla may cause severe diarrhea, nausea, or vomiting. Tell your doctor if these occur. Otezla is associated with an increased risk of depression. Tell your doctor if you have a history of depression or suicidal thoughts, or if these feelings develop. Some people taking otezla reported weight loss. Your doctor should monitor your weight and may stop treatment. Other side effects include upper respiratory tract infection and headache. Tell your doctor about all the medicines you take and if youre pregnant or planning to be. Otezla. Show more of you. Does your Business Internet provider promise a lot . Lets see who delivers more. Comcast business gives you gigspeed in more places. The others dont. We offer up to 6 hours of 4g Wireless Network backup. Everyone else, no way. We let calls from any of your devices come from your business number. Them, not so much. We let you keep an eye on your business from anywhere. The others . Nope get internet on our gigspeed network and add voice and tv for 34. 90 more per month. Call or go on line today. Well certainly not a slow friday night. More breaking news just breaking now goes straight to the heart of what weve been talking about. New york times the Maggie Haberman on the buy line. Here the lead of the story. President trump knew about a sixfigure payment that michael d. Cohen his personal lawyer made to a porn graphic film actress several months before he denied knowledge of it to accord to two people familiar with the arrangement. Here is what he said aboard air force one. Did you know about the 130,000 basement to Stormy Daniels . No. You have to ask Michael Cohen. Hes my attorney and youre going to have to ask Michael Cohen. Do you know where he got the money . Im reading directly from the New York Times, it was not immediately clear when he learned of the payment. At a time he was poised to pay for a story. Three people said that mr. Trump knew that at the time that the president denied it. Lawyer r laura coates what do you make of it . He actually knew about it months before. You can certainly lie to the press and have the credibility crisis, you cannot lie and put yourself in a position for legal liability and expect not to have criminal exposure. The problem with telling a lie is to keep them straight. You have to remember the dates you gave. If you dont, there are opportunity for the very thing the president feared. He talks about perjury traps and created his own. Im still waiting on the real big question here. That is, its one thing to have known about the payment but the federal Campaign Finance laws that you require that you knew about it and made for the purpose of trying to influence, contribute to or somehow be apart of an election or campaign. I think you are seeing a web of lies weaving around that exact thing. The president can make the argument that he was he knew about it and protecting about his family and didnt want to cause his wife public embarrassment and didnt have to do with anything with the campaign. Like with the john edwards case, an argument that the people in the jury seemed to see. Rudy giuliani said obviously this happened because of the election, right . And this is were going to assume that Rudy Giuliani is familiar with Donald Trumps thinking on this. I think thats a problem. It directly contradicts what Rudy Giuliani said that the president just learned about this ten days ago. It is the whole, why are you lying thing . They keep making up different stories. Why not just say, yes, this happened and i was protecting my family. It becomes hard to believe them when they keep changing the story. A candidate can dough gnat as much as they want to their own campaign. If you make the donations and fail to report them or try to circumvent finance laws by having somebody issue alone that you repay following the election and attempt not to disclose information. We should point out earlier, like 40 minutes earlier, it seem this like a year ago broke a story that Michael Cohen all along we knew he said he paid 130,000 to Stormy Daniels from a home equity line if the bank. In two trance actions able to amass more than 700,000, exactly what 774,000, the expect purpose of the money is not at this point clear. Thats right. Now that we learned another lie upon all of the lies told, people are going to assume that is a slush fund because Michael Cohen called himself a fixer. What else do you have to fix . Are there other porn stars that you have to payoff . Another lawsuit since been dropped but a friend of Michael Cohen said to erin burnett and i dont know why i am such a storehouse of this knowledge. My career is taking a strange turn. I remember him saying that Michael Cohen, this was his purview. That he did this without necessarily doing this without informing the president. He describes himself as the tom haguen i believe it was raydonovan. I did this to protect my family, the reason that doesnt pass the smell test because of the timing. The month right before the election. Lets remember, the Stormy Daniels was about to come out in 2011. She gave the story to in touch magazine. If he was worried, why not pay him off then. The story just broke so i got about three quarters in before we came on air. The story does not say that President Trump knew all of the details about what was going on at the time that Michael Cohen he said he knew about this months before the air force one comment. Hold hon a second. If he asked a question about did you know what the deal was or the financial structure did you know about the payment we dont know. He lied. Maybe he didnt know exactly what was being put together so the president could be telling the truth and might not have known what Michael Cohen was doing or he could have lied. Twowe have to take a break. Everybody in the panel, well be right back. Get it for jean whos always cold. For the sales team, it and the warehouse crew. Give us the data we need. In one place, anywhere we need it. Help us do our jobs better. With domo we can run this place together. Well thats thats your job i guess. No one thought much of itm at all. L people said it just made a mess until exxonmobil scientists put it to the test. They thought someday it could become fuel and power our cars wouldnt that be cool . And thats why exxonmobil scientists think its not small at all. Energy lives here. The powerful backing of american express. Dont live life without it. The powerful backing of american express. Theres a new place with daily laundry service. A place with a day spa. A place where seniors get the care they need in the comfort of home. Home instead senior care. Now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun now im gonna tell my momma that im a traveller im gonna follow the sun transitions™ light under control™ thank you for watching 360 cnn tonight starts now. We have two breaking news stories tonight, we are learning Michael Cohen took outlines of credit giving him access up to 774,000 during the president ial campaign. This is according to the wall street journal and the New York Times. He knew about the payments month before he told the ameri