is, that is a casualty, a terrible casualty of the ukrainian/russian conflict, this is huge because it's even bigger than kal because in this case what appears -- what might have happened -- and again, a lot of caveats, but what might have happened is that the russian government has been supporting, training, arming rebels, separatists in ukraine, essentially teaching them how to do this kind of thing. those forces have in the past shot down helicopters of the ukrainian army, cargo planes, as you noted. it would not be difficult to imagine that they thought this was a ukrainian cargo plane because these are poorly trained, ill-equipped. they probably don't have the right kind of radar to figure it out, and they probably don't care. these are not, you know, people following safety precautions. >> in fact, the separatist group just shortly before this plane went down had bragged about, on this day, bringing down what they said was ukrainian military