with you because you are the credible alternative. we have nothing like that right now. >> do you agree that they want the west to attack them for the reasons that michael says? >> i do. it may not be on the time line they will get. the promise that the west will attack, the promise that this will be a crusader versus muslim battle is one they like to dangle in front of recruits. that's the narrative they want to propose. if they immediately have that attack they might just lose their territory. that would be a falsification of the narrative they propose. >> we keep saying, you hear the president saying, to shrink their territory, that we need to corral them. most people say we just need to stamp them out. shrinking of their territory, is that enough? what about recruitment efforts? >> we shrunk the territory