that show -- >> let's move on. >> -- you can't take that away. >> anna navarro led that conversation, asked him about that cover. what's your take on that? >> oh, gosh. so much. first of all, don't interrupt that man. >> i know. >> it was a great conversation. don't do that. second of all. we didn't play what ramon symone said. she was trying to minimalize it as this was just a fictional show and we had writers and this wasn't real. for a lot of people of color, it was a reality that we all wanted because we were coming out of the era of the '70s and television and movies. this is what we had in 1984 as a positive stereotype -- >> it wasn't what many people wanted. it was what many people had.