teach sports and trans ethics. can we be fair and inclusionary at the same time? >> oh, yeah. i think that the idea that fairness and inclusion are somehow in tension with each other is a fundamental disunderstanding. fairness demands inclusion. we have to start from a place of inclusion, and when i think about these sorts of headlines about, like, dominating. those sorts of headlines have been used against me, for example. even though i lose most of my races. and the fact is that we don't use those headlines for male athletes. so if we want to talk about swimming, for example, i'll talk about a swimmer who has 28 olympic gold medals or sorry, 23 olympic gold medals, 8 gold medals in a single games, 39 world records, 20 guinness world records, and for 4 olympics in a row, he was the most decorated athlete period, and that's