turkish man but they change place. but -- >> what do you think, bob, that jihadi john the big boss does that track with what you've been hearing? >> well, i think, wolf, what we're seeing here in the islamic state is not a hierarchy like we're used to in al qaeda where there was a clear leader and they had a spiritual leader and the rest of it. it was fairly a strict organization. what we're seeing is al qaeda turning into something else a more diffuse movement. and the fact that foreigners were put in charge i mean non-arabs were put in charge of the hostages tells me that this is a new form of organization. and gentlemen haddi john doesn't really surprise me he was in charge of them. accounts of hostages coming out say he was indeed in charge.