investigators of one of those subcommittees, of the committee of the government and government reform special committee and eric holder when he started -- when they started going back and forth. that was pretty -- >> it was a rare moment. >> that was ugly. >> and i think joe would agree about how these two men feel about each other. >> he's going to join us by the way in the next hour, darrell issa. we'll get his reaction to after the president speaks about the irs we'll hear what he has to say. charlie rangel is also coming in to speak with us, one of the key democrats on the house ways and means committee. he's obviously been very, very concerned about what's going on. >> yeah. one of the things i'm curious what joe things about the idea of recusal. the attorney general talked about how he recused himself from the leak investigation but there didn't seem to be any written record of recusal and i believe there is supposed to be. >> it depends on how you read the justice department regulations. it's clear that it's the attorney general who is supposed to make the decisions on the