amazing. but more importantly, this was an assault on democracy. and the rule of law. and for pence to, basically, just act as if, well, there were differences in how we interpreted this event. is just nonsense and it's very dangerous. and -- and frankly, what's most surprising about it. he i he's never going to win over a single person in the trump base. they hate him. they, you know, continue to hate him. many of them wanted him to be hanged on the day of -- of the insurrection. so, he doesn't gain anything, by this. he doesn't have to become a never-trumper, like i am. but he -- he needs to be able to make a case that he is a different kind of republican than his predecessor. he doesn't have to disavow the accomplishments of the administration. but i think he has to disavow donald trump. >> and there are accomplishments for him to talk about, absolutely. but this was at a gop-fundraising event in --