>> so summer 2015. do you think he has a shot? >> well, look, i don't write off joe died den as readily as some other people. it's too early to say who has a shot. let's look at it this way. this is the challenge that democrats have to look at. since 1952, i think -- don't hold me to it -- only once has a party actually gotten a third he term in the presidency and that was in 1988, probably having to do with the inendneptness of th campaign. it's almost impossible to see two people so closely linked. i think there's a window for him to go out and make his case and he should if hillary clinton doesn't run but i doubt he would take that run if she does because he's so far behind her in momentum at this point it's almost impossible to see them running against each other. >> that's true. but joe biden has force of will.