fact, probably with russian stonewalling. how far can they go? >> jim, i think we have gone about as far as we're going to get right now. the russians are never going to confess to this, that they gave this weapons system, the sa-11 to ukrainian dissidents but this satellite photography, once you see this stuff, is really convincing. you can see where it originated, when it crossed the border. there has been pretty good coverage on eastern ukraine, all of the timing, you know, the intercepts, ukrainian intercepts are helpful but it's really the overhead where you can see this, the chain of events. i think it's enough to pretty well determine this is a russian-originated weapon and it was the dissidents who launched it. the black box i'm sure would be helpful in a certain sense, fragments are missing they will be able to collect out of the airplane will help as well but nothing like the overhead. >> rick, i want to ask you because you see in barbara's piece, the intelligence the u.s. has on the crash which strikes me that a lot of this intelligence preceded the crash.