conclave? >> well, because they're cut off from the outside world, they don't know. unless this happened and they were able to communicate with cardinal mahoney before they entered into the conclave yesterday, they have media silence. it's not like they can go back to their rooms at the domus santa marta and put on the tv and check their e-mail. >> so there is a chance they're operating without really having any knowledge about this. >> correct. it really depends on how -- when that went down, and were they able to notify cardinal o'malley since he was involved in that. obviously so it's possible that they have no idea that this happened. >> we look at these pictures of the black smoke, and it was really interesting. john was on the air and i was watching it. about 20 minutes earlier, everybody thought the vote would come in. how likely does it make it that the next vote, in fact, will be aim successful vote? >> well, as john allen just said, we really don't know. there are lots of scenarios. i think that the longer it goes, the more outside the box they'll be thinking.