Transcripts For CNN Starting Point 20120409

and blank. it's hard not to go off between that and sharon, i've gone in the red, rip dad and sharon, i love and miss you. i think about both of you every second of the day. sharon was a reference to england's 24-year-old fiance, sharon hart wild, who had recently committed suicide in front of him, leaving behind their 6-month-old daughter. we're joined by tulsa mayor dewey bartlett and tulsa police chief chuck jordan. chief i want to ask you first what do we know about a motive? we have the facebook postings which certainly are leading investigators in the direction of a hate crime but what do we know about motive here? >> well that's not something we can really discuss at this time. obviously we're going to give all that information to the prosecuting authority, our district attorney, and hopefully our reports will be complete and we'll have complete motive for him to work with. >> can you tell us, chief, a little bit about the relationship or association between england and alvin watts? investigators have called them associates. what does that mean exactly? do they live together? there's a big age difference, jake england is 19 years old and the other one i think is 32. >> the term associates is actually kind of an investigative term we use when looking, going through records, gathering information on someone, an associate can be many, many things whether it's somebody they are casual friends with or somebody in this case, we think they're pretty good friends, living at the same residens r residen residence. that's basically what it means. >> do you know who pulled the trigger? >> i can't talk about any of the investigative details. that's going to prosecution. >> of course, and obviously we don't want to you do or say anything that would jeopardize that investigation. i want to bring up another facebook post if i can from jake england around 10:00 friday, after the shooting hz os had occurred, you must be going through this material "i do believe it just might be time to call it quits. i hate to say it like that but i'm done. if something does happen tonight be ready for another funeral later. "are these two men cooperating? are they talking, helping you put the pieces together from what we've seen on facebook and the time frame of these murders? >> well again, i apologize but we can't talk about any of the investigative details at this point in time. it's just premature to do that. anything we do have, i will tell you we go through social media on a lot of cases as part of our culture today and our society today so that's very common, but as far as any information of what the suspect may or may not have said we can't share that now. >> mayor bartlett i want to bring new and talk about what happened in the community. for 48 hours you had people who were afraid to leave their homes. clearly they must be happy at this point there are two arrests and looks at though you're headed toward some resolution. can you talk about how the people are tulsa are feeling this morning? >> well, they're feeling a lot more secure in their homes. obviously when this random event happened very early friday morning, people were walking down the street, were on the front porch of their homes, and that's the last thing you ever would think would happen, and so it's a real shock to our collective system. now, when the community came together in a very united fashion, we were very supportive of the investigative and the policing efforts of our entire law enforcement family, that we were able as a community to help them with a lot of tips, a lot of suggestions, and that in itself i think brings a lot of closure at least to the fear aspect of this thing with two people now behind bars and the investigation going into the different phase with the court system and the prosecutors, it does bring at least some finality to what did happen. now we focus upon the families, the five families that were affected by this violence, three that of course lost the family member that died, had been injured both gunshots, we now focus on our fell sew tulsans to make sure they are bet per. >> how are the two wounded doing right now? >> they're out of the hospital and much better. they're certainly recovering and from what i'm told, the recovery is expected to be complete. however, there's certainly a lot of emotional scars that enters into this that will be difficult to gauge for a long time. families, that's who we focus on now our fellow tulsans, the families. >> thank you, gentlemen. keep us posted, as you get more from your investigation that you can share with us. clearly you don't want to jeopardize the ongoing investigation. hi, zoraida. >> hello, christine. the teenage suspect in the deadly ohio shooting rampage will be back in court. 17-year-old t.j. lane is accused of killing three of his fellow students in january. cobe prosecuted as an adult. singer jennifer hudson is scheduled to testify in the trial of a man accused of killing her mother, brother and nephew. william balfour is the estranged husband of hudson's sister. prosecutors say he gunned down her family in a jealous rage in 2008. mike wallace died over the weekend aft the age of 93. his aggressive and fareless reporting is the stuff of legend. wallace was there at the beginning of "60" minutes in 196. long time colleague morley safer calls him a "one man truth squad." >> people like mike have an indefinable quality that makes people at once take to him immediately, and then find themselves rappelled by him. it's a unique talent. >> there will be a full tribute to wallace next sunday on "60 minutes." minding your business let's get a quick check of the markets. stocks pointing to a big drop when trading gets under way. futures down over 100 points right now. things could change, we're watching to see how the market reacts to friday's disappointing jobs report. only 120,000 jobs were created in march. that's lower than the estimated 210,000. in other business news now not much of a relief but gas prices are down. the national average for a gallon of unleaded now $3.93 a gallon, the third day that we have seen a drop, overall gas prices have jumped nearly 20% and that's just so far this year. it was a battle to the finish and beyond. bubba watson winning the 76th masters tournament in augusta, georgia, defeating south african luis oosthuizen on the second hole of the playoff. watson shot a 68 to force the playoff. >> going back to my childhood, going back to my wife, what my wife said to me, what my mom said to me, just put my head down and i've done this before, my caddie's told me all the time, he said you're a good golfer. you're here for a reason. you can do this. you've hit all these shots before. you just have to do it in this moment. >> no big deal, just in this moment. watson is 33 years old. this is his first major win. it was beautiful to watch. >> i did not watch it. i was knee deep in children all weekend but that's one happy man, at 33, one happy minute. >> yes indeed. >> roland just told me he's completely natural talent. >> never taken a golf lesson, never studied his golf swing, actual old school, how ben hogan was. you figure it out in the dirt. i love guys like that plus he's left-handed and hits a pink driver with a pink shaft. bubba said i'm going to stand out, plus his name is bubba, of course he'll stand out. >> let's talk about mitt romney and standing out the republicans and standing out to the cast of "saturday night live" who turned their sights on mitt romney again. this week a string of clips supposedly lifted from c-span showing the candidate on the campaign trail. >> you know, ann and i have lived and traveled all over the world but i'll let you in on a little secret. the only place that has ever truly felt like home is right here east st. louis, illinois. in all honesty i can't remember a time when dungeons and dragons wasn't an important part of my life. no one wants to get sick, you know, but frankly, i've always thought that if i had to develop a chronic disease, i hoped it would be adult onset diabetes. people ask me, mitt, just how many piercings do you have? i always say more than i need but less than a want. >> it reminded us of the famous grits and saying y'all when he was down south last month. >> oh my goodness. >> i'm learning to say y'all and i like grits and things are strange things are happening to me. >> strange things are happening to me. >> i guess he's getting the grits in south carolina, that's probably why gingrich blasted him in the state. >> he point the that's why he failed. >> he got jeff foxworthy to campaign for him and still couldn't come in second in alabama. >> politicians have to go out and say i'm like you. >> mitt's a special case. he gets a bad rap because mitt has consistently throughout his entire career been a human windsock. in that sense he's not a flip-flopper. he is willing to say, do or believe anything to get elected. he gave thousands of dollars to planned parenthood and he deserves the dig. >> look this group think has taken hold that mitt romney is a completely unprincipled windsock as john said and mitt romney has given us evidence to believe it. he's given away 10% of his wealth, tithed it every year, given away two years of hadis life for something beyond his career. >> and avoided military service to do so. >> those are hard -- >> a war he supported he avoided that service by volunteering. >> just give me a candidate who can say i'm not going to do this stupid bowling stuff, taking a shot, drinking a beer, eating grits. if you don't like it, don't do it. to me that is a joke. >> republicans would respect him if he did that. >> republicans 2008, senator obama bowling and senator clinton took a shot. that's just idiotic. >> all politics. >> no president say regular person anyway. let's just stop that impressive. >> how about quail hunting. >> i'm trying to figure out will and his beard. >> did a parakeet fall in your pocket? >> even don johnson is saying i did better "miami vice" in the '80s. that's a chubori pocket. >> are you guys going to be like this? >> all day, baby, all day. the question, was it a justified use of deadly force? we'll squ the lawmakers who helped write the stand your ground law. and a bus offering mobile treatments for your hangover if you're about to head to work or can't get out of bed because of your easter festivities, you don't need to miss the rest of the show, check out our live blog on cnn.com/startingpoint. we'll leave with you roland's playlist as roland leaves us, "sunshine anderson." >> i got to do radio. you did listen to sunshine anderson, though. and pepperoni breath? fight both fast with new tums freshers! concentrated relief that goes to work in seconds and freshens breath. new tums freshers. ♪ tum...tum...tum...tum... tums! ♪ [ male announcer ] fast relief, fresh breath, all in a pocket sized pack. cuban male announcer ] fast relief, fresh breath, cajun raw seafood pizza parlor french fondue tex-mex fro-yo tapas puck chinese takeout taco truck free range chicken pancake stack baked alaska 5% cash back. right now, get 5% cash back at restaurants. it pays to discover. ca. we've got to protect the environment. the economists make some good points. we need safer energy. [announcer:] who's right? they all are. visit powerincooperation.com. [ sneezes ] [ male announcer ] you may be an allergy muddler. try zyrtec® for powerful allergy relief. and zyrtec® is different than claritin® because it starts working faster on the first day you take it. zyrtec®. love the air. [ sneezes ] prosecutors in the trayvon martin shooting could take their case to a grand jury tomorrow. either way trayvon's family considers it a deadline to show something about the fate of george zimmerman. today a group of college students who walked 40 miles across central florida over the weekend lead a rally calling for zimmerman to be arrested and tried. grand jury may never decide whether zimmerman is tried in court. you remember angela corey the special prosecutor overseeing the case last month. >> since i've been the elected state attorney for the last three years and two months we have yet to get together a grand jury. we do a thorough investigation and we make that decision ourselves. >> david simmons is a republican florida state senator. thank you for getting up early for us this morning, sir. >> good morning. >> do you think this case is going to go to a grand jury tomorrow? >> i don't know. that's certainly a decision that the special prosecutor can make, and will make, and it's important for us to simply make sure the judicial system actually plays out the way it's supposed to. >> let's talk about that then, talk about the grand jury and if it goes to the grand jury and what that would look like. it's made up of at least 15 people. they must decide if there's probable cause a crime has been committed. in this case any piece of evidence that would convince a judge that zimmerman probably committed a crime when he shot trayvon martin, whether it be a witness or a piece of physical evidence, so when you look at the facts of this case, do you think a grand jury would indict george zimmerman? >> well, i don't know what all the facts are, christine. i think it's important to understand right now that the stand our ground law, the stand your ground law is something that came into being in 2005. at that time the state of florida was the distinct minority. most states have and had a stand your ground law and florida had an unusual provision that says that a person has, a victim has a duty to flee, and all we did in 2005 was change that, so that florida would go along with the majority of states in the nation, and say that a person who is a victim of a crime, wherever that person rightfully is located, can go ahead and stand his or her ground in the event that they are accosted by someone who uses deadly force. >> good morning, senator simmons. is there a possibility that the stand your ground law is not even germane to the case if mr. zimmerman precipitated this entire situation? >> that is correct. the stand your ground as we prepared it in 2005 and it was enacted provides that, number one, what i call is a purity provision, you must in fact not be engaged yourself in any unlawful activity. secondly, you must reasonably believe that deadly force is being used against you in order to be able to rely upon the stand your ground law, and so in this instance, if, in fact mr. zimmerman was engaged in any kind of unlawful activity such as waving or brandishing of firearm in front of trayvon martin, then under those circumstances, the law wouldn't apply. what's really interesting is, is that even if the stand your ground law were not enacted, chances are that he would still have the defense of self-defense under the prior florida law, because even though there is the standard requirement previously in florida to flee if deadly force is being used against you, you don't have the duty to flee if, in fact, you don't have an avenue of escape. and according to him, at least according to his father, as he stated last week, he was on the ground being held down, so he didn't have an avenue of escape. >> senator simmons, will cain. how might the stand your crime law changed the crime scene? would it have shifted the benefit of the doubt from the police on site? would it have affected the decisions the police made that night? >> i think the important thing for any law enforcement officer to do is number one, have probable cause, which is required to arrest someone, and then look at all the facts and circumstances. since this is one of those crimes in which there are few eyewitnesses and it's going to require that there be forensic evidence, it's going to be interesting to see how the bullet wound actually occurred. it's going to be interesting to see who the person that was, who was yelling on the tapes for help. so these are a lot of factual pieces of information that we don't have already, and that's why it's so critical that the prosecutor is the one who sifts through all of this evidence before making the determination of probable cause. >> david simmons, florida state senator, thank you for joining us. ahead, get sloppy drunk at night and an iv in the morning. new mobile hangover er, the latest innovation to help keep the partying going. guess where it is, it's our "get real." tim tebow preaching to thousands at eastern mass and he brings up tebowing. you're watching "starting point." ♪ is this a new song, recent? >> no, i don't listen to new music. >> ooh. >> that's obvious. >> this is not an old song. >> about five years. >> is it "all right guy"? you're an all right guy. >> your musical knowledge of it, the breadth of it is staggering. >> my brother got me into it. >> i'm going to play trivial pursuit with you. you know too many things. time to "get real" why most people go to vegas, to drink big until you can't feel feelings anymore. you pay for that in the morning. now one las vegas-based anesthesiologist says he has the cure for a hangover of of a lifetime. hangoverheaven.com has a fleet of tour buses rolling up and down the las vegas trip offering iv treatments to rid your body of hangover causing toxins. . 150 bucks you'll be good to go under an hour. memory, can't guarantee you'll get this back. think how much trouble this could have saved the guys in the movie "the hangover." >> phil, do not go in the bathroom. >> would you put on some pants. >> there is a tiger in the bathroom. >> what's going on? >> there's a jungle cat in the bathroom. >> okay, i'll check him out. >> be careful, don't, don't. >> he's not kidding, there's a tiger in there. >> yeah. it's big [ bleep ] gigantic. >> i am in so much pain right now. >> will cain, brad cooper is wearing your stubble. >> trust me that was a better looking one. >> if you got the buses going down the street maybe you can get hangover cure on your way to the little chapel or the way back. i'm not sure which end of the chapel visit you should get the hangover cure. >> you're drunk by paying him 150 bucks for the iv hookup. >> you're saying this is snake oil. >> i'm just saying that's nuts. stick with the hangover. 150 bucks and you think after an hour i'm good? gotcha. >> some people want the hangover. i saw a chris angel show, i wanted no memory of the entire experience so it's great the first world has this now. >> you have the memory, you just don't feel terrible. >> great idea. really is. >> you're going to feel terrible saying man i should have spent more money on the drinks. >> for every drink have a glass of water. >> just do like me, i don't drink so just have fun all night. >> this is vegas, they should have the valtrex van following behind them. >> oh, my gosh, we're moving on. senator chuck grassley called president obama stupid. i think he told the aig chiefs they should go shoot themselves. iowa nice, folks. the world watching what north korea will do next. new reports the north is planning to test its third nuclear weapon as a rocket sits ready to launch and we're going to get a personal tour of that. you're watching "starting point." guys. come here, come here. 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[ male announcer ] solutionism. the new optimism. you know, typical alarm clock. i am so glad to get rid of it. just to be able to wake up in the morning on your own. that's a big accomplishment to me. i don't know how much money i need. but i know that whatever i have that's what i'm going to live within. ♪ ♪ ♪ turn you into a hip-hop fan. >> a little bounce in the morning. >> that's john's play list. zoraida has the headlines. >> good morning to you. it is hopes for a cease-fire in syria appear to be dwindling with new reports of deadly violence. syrian troops have summarily executed more than 100 civilians in recent attacks on cities and towns. there are reports of deadly clashes today between syrian forces and rebel fighters near the border with turkey. the syrian government wants written assurance that rebel also lay down arms first before agreeing to a u.n. cease-fire. a new collapse at a mine in peru could delay the rescue of nine workers. they have trapped since thursday. right now the trapped miners have access to oxygen, food and water. officials fear a rescue may not happen for another day or two. starting today the u.s. navy will cut compensation checks to those affected about i friday's military jet crash at an apartment complex. the first payout also cover housing, meals and closing to l totalling $2,300 per individual resident, more for families. dozens of apartments were destroyed but amazingly no one was killed or seriously hurt there. the pastor joked he's the biggest thing in christianity right now next to the pope that is, tim tebow spoke in front of a crowd of about 15,000 people during an easter church service held outdoors in georgetown, texas. he says the country needs to get back to being one country under god. he also talked about the tebowing craze. >> it's kind of crazy. i really don't think i was the first athlete to get on a knee and pray and it's funny because i've had the same routine the last seven years and just this year, they started calling it tebowing which i have no idea why, but i've been doing the same thing the last seven years and this year seemed to get popular. but i do think it's pretty cool because at least prayer is being talked about. >> he certainly has started that. christine back to you. >> thanks, zoraida. people are going thousands of him are cheering how he's humble. matthew 6:5, check it out sometime, tim. >> wo forget all of the previous players who scored touchdowns. it's called praying, not tebowing. >> and he said that, he's not the first, a lot of guys have been taking a knee for a long time. thanks. the world watching north korea this morning, some on edge, nervous about a planned rocket launch, north korea moved a long range rocket into position and readied it for a launch this week. pyongyang insists its intentions are good and invited foreign journalists to look, including our own stan grant looking at the top secret launch site. >> reporter: this is indeed a rare opportunity to get this close to an actual satellite launch site especially here in north korea. this area has been kept very much under wraps away from the eyes of the world, but today of course, this has changed. you can see the media around me here, the number of people who have been invited here to tour this site. >> joining us is jim walsh, international security analyst. welcome to the program again. i want to ask you the parading the journalists through letting people see, is this for internal -- is this for kim jong-un to, is it bragging internally, sending a message to the international community? both? >> yes, it's a good question. often when north korea acts out, it will, its purpose is to communicate with the broader world, communicate to the united states or to japan or south korea. this is about internal messaging, being able to go to its own public and say look all these western journalists are here, we're really important, we're really a big deal and why do i say it's internally driven, because they are going through a political transition, this young guy, this 20-something-year-old has taken over for his father and trying to consolidate his commission and 100th anniversary of the founder of north carolina, kim il-sung. this is about regime legitimacy and talking to the north korean people and the military, the elites in the military. >> cnn saw what appears to be a satellite. most of the media agree there is a satellite for this rocket to launch the satellite into space. so big deal, except we also know this is a country that has nuclear ambitions no how successful they will be, and it's a missile launch that people really are concerned about down the road. >> yeah, well this missile is not the greatest missile in the world. there are two characteristics if you have a modern missile program, one is solid fuel and the other is a modern guidance system and this missile has neither of those and four tests, four long range missile tests over 15 years is not an active missile program. it's more like a tube filled with gas even if than it is anything else and the big worry is they're going to fire it up there and it will get wobbly and start to veer off course like the last two did. that's the real concern i have is not the missile itself but that the missile might stray into foreign air space and japan or south korea might feel inclined to shoot it down and suddenly off to the races with an international incident. >> we can also talk about the fact that millions of north koreans are starving to pay for this missile, are we looking at a scenario most likely april couple of missiles launched, march troops to the dms, is this a case of fredo jong-il trying to impress the corleona family? >> certainly could you see other good tests but i'm afraid what we're really looking at further down the road is the missile test and international reaction and then they're going to have to push back and so i would not rule out a nuclear test sometime later this year if this continues to ratchet up. >> south korean intelligence are thinking it's highly probable after a long range rocket test they'll go ahead and do another nuclear test at this spot where they've done it in 2006, i think in 2009, done atomic testing before. this is obviously very provocative behavior by the north koreans, even after there was just this very you know highly publicized deal for food for this starving country, so what's the point? what are they trying to do? >> i think that's a great question, that's the $100,000 question and we really don't have an answer. lot of people who have been following this over the years think this is the same old same sewed, we cut a deal and they've broken the deal, they got something but they didn't live up to their promises. that's not what's happening here. there was a deal, and we really hadn't given them anything yet. we haven't given them the food aid but the deal fell apart. one two of things happened. either there was a misunderstanding about the contents of the deal, the americans thought one thing, the north koreans the other. maybe that deal got back to pyongyang and ran into trouble. maybe the military pushed back or there was something else going on. if we had an answer to that question that would tell us what's going on inside north korea. it's the most opaque society in the world, more than any other place on earth so we don't know what's going on. >> gym walsh, thanks for joining us. >> thank you. of course china will be a big important part of this, too. right in china's backyard, a big power player in the region. what pressure can china put on the country to step back from the brink. >> what question would they want to put on north korea? >> great point. he was commander of the "uss cole" the day it was attacked. hear from kirk lippold and the warning he gave america on the morning of september 11th, 2011. plus senator grassley calls the president student, an obama adviser calls him a 6-year-old. we leave with you my playlist, "slow poison." all right, let's decide what to do about medicare and social security... security. that's what matters to me... me? i've been paying in all these years... years washington's been talking at us, but they never really listen... listen...it's not just some line item on a budget; it's what i'll have to live on... i live on branson street, and i have something to say... [ male announcer ] aarp is bringing the conversation on medicare and social security out from behind closed doors in washington. because you've earned a say. this is my grandson. and if it wasn't for a screening i got, i might have missed being here to meet him. the health care law lets those of us on medicare now get most preventive care for free like annual wellness visits, immunizations, and some cancer screenings. and that's when they caught something serious on mine. but we could treat it before it was too late. i'll be around to meet number two! get the screenings you need. learn more at healthcare.gov. you don't want to miss any of this! ♪ you're dismissing of his lovely music. >> i'm shaking my head going, it was resurrection sunday yesterday, resurrect his playlist. >> that's for parris, texas. >> absolutely. top republican getting slapped by senior white house adviser david axelrod for calling the president stupid in a tweet online. started with the comment the president made last week about the supreme court taking up his health care law. >> i'm confident that the supreme court will not take what would be an unprecedented extraordinary step of overturning a law that was passed by a strong majority of a democratically elected congress. >> a lot of conservatives took that as a challenge to judicial authority including apparently senator chuck grassley of iowa. he tweeted constituents asked why i am not outraged at president obama's attack on supreme court independence because american people are not as stupid as this ex-professor of constitutional law. david axelrod responded, heads up, senator grassley, i think a 4-year-old hijacked your account is enis sending out foolish tweets just to embarrass you. ahh, everyone's nice in iowa except senator grassley thinks the president is stupid. this is what it's come to with the health care reform? >> senator grassley is lying, this say lie. these are the same people who don't like it when a court does judicial activism. senator grassley is known for the death panel mean, the same policy he had fought for things earlier. >> senator harry reid made outrageous comments regarding president george w. bush. whether you're a republican or democrat you do not have people who have respect for the office of the president of the united states. when i watch television and see people call him barack as if that's their buddy when actually it's president obama. i called president bush president bush so you respect the office so whether you're republican or democrat. >> i agree with what roland had to say and couldn't disagree with john more. if that's demonstrably false is what president obama said at the press gathering, this was passed by a strong majority. prove to me in any way that's possible and also said unprecedented for the supreme court to overturn the laws? 'unprecedented except for 250 years of american jurisprudence history of judicial review, there's nothing true about what he said. >> it was not passed by a strong majority but how do you call this an attack on the independence of the supreme court? it's absurd. i agree with chuck grassley on the history channel needs to show history again. he's a powerful advocate for that cause. >> do you agree the aig executives should either resign or kill themselves? he's been known to be -- >> he fires off on twitter. he fires off. >> he goes too far. >> he fires off on c-span, on twitter, when he's on the senate floor, doesn't matter. here again what you have here is you have, when a democratic president is critical of the supreme court, republicans will rush to their aid, but just flip it. >> yeah. >> republicans will still criticize the supreme court for roe v. wade. bot dom line is you criticize when you don't like the decision. >> exactly. >> it's a fundamental lack of understanding of judicial -- >> when you like it it's strict constitutional, when you don't like it -- >> republicans don't criticize the supreme court. >> it's not judicial activism to allow the constitution. it's judicial activism to create new aspects of the constitution, put numbers that are absurd. >> conservatives always want to label what happened that might have killed the democrats as judicial activism. if you don't like a decision you call it judicial activism, regardless of party. >> i thought this conversation was going to be whether this was constitutional or not and this turned into the core of the argument. >> a 6-year-old, axelrod says more like a 6-year-old. >> i give him more credit, i'm march mature than axelrod. the prelude to 9/11, 12 years later the commander of the "uss cole is talking about the deadly attack on his ship and the aftermath and why we should have known about the threat from al qaeda years before they attacked american soil. you're watching "starting point." today is gonna be an important day for us. you ready? we wanna be our brother's keeper. what's number two we wanna do? bring it up to 90 decatherms. how bout ya, joe? let's go ahead and bring it online. attention on site, attention on site. now starting unit nine. some of the world's cleanest gas turbines are now powering some of america's biggest cities. siemens. answers. the trial of the master mind of the "uss cole" bombings resumes this month at guantanamo bay. it's being watched what it could reveal about cia interrogations. 17 american sailors were killed and nearly 40 wounded and that attack 11 months before the september 11th attacks. going he joining our panel is kurt lipold. the book is really well done. it reminds me of when that happened it was a different america. it really was. we hadn't had september 11th. but then the "cole" really struck at the heart of this country. >> it did. i think we had a pre9/11 mindset. people were of the opinion so long as terrorist attacks occurred overseas that is the price we paid for being on the international stage. >> we know it was a foreshadowing of what al qaeda wanted to do and the message you wanted to send to us and how it wanted to kill american civilians. >> absolutely. when you look at it, they had attacked buildings and embassies. you had the khobar towers and they represent and house u.s. interests. when you attack a warship it defends u.s. interests around the globe. when you try to reduce a nation's ability to protect its citizens around the world it's an act of war and missed by two administrations. >> october 12 of 2000 it felled felt like we had been sphered by a giant fish. it destroyed the public address system and the alarms. the ship didn't go down, though. how did you save the ship without being able to communicate with your crew? >> it it was absolutely training. the crew fell back on what they had trained to do and formed small teams and went out and investigated the damage around the ship and determined what to do to stop the flooding and isolate various areas of the ship to prevent it from sinking and set about doing that. those that were not involved in the damage control effort began to work on the -- on saving the crewmembers. that day we evacuate 33 wounded off the ship in 99 minutes and 32 had survived. >> you're lisping back to port. you made a report two weeks after the attack. you told us in the break you played the star-spangled banner. tell me a little bit about trying to keep everyone together and keep morale up after this horrible event. >> well, i wanted to send a signal. when the ship got under way and was going to be towed out of yemen, as we were pulling away from the pier, i told the executive officer my number two in command play the star-spangled banner. he did exactly that and sent a signal despite what happened to us we were leaving with our head held high and made a determination played the second song. what do we play? star spangled again and then the second time, jimi hendrix version. i said the crews earned it and let them play what they want. they played a memorable song. i thought i would get good american solid american rock. the next thing you hear a noise coming on the speakers from kid rock, american bad ass. sending the signal up yours, yemen. that was really -- you can't ask for any better than that. kid rock, great american, he would come several months later and do a benefit concert for the crew and families in norfolk. >> playing public enemy. >> you say you were disappointed by the clinton and bush administration responses to this attack. what would you have considered a more appropriate response? >> i think we should have been much more forthright in going after al qaeda and doing what was necessary. putting a bunch of missiles into afghanistan following the embassy bombs had no effect and they had abandoned tarnack farms and where other missiles hit. we learned our lesson there. i think we should have taken a look. we had two years to react to it and essentially did nothing. >> early in the morning of september 11th, 2001, 11 months after the attack on the "uss cole" you attended a briefing cia headquarters on how al qaeda had planned and executed this attack our ship. i want to read what you told cia officials at the end of that meeting. you said i don't think america understands. i believe it's going to take a seminal event probably in this country where hundreds, if not thousands, are going to have to die before americans realize that we're at war with this guy. moments later, the north tower of the world trade center was hit. describe i guess your feelings and do you think that they heeded you and they knew how serious this was? >> it was the most horrible pit in my stomach that you could imagine, because that first one, you're kind of wondering what went on. but as i'm standing outside the counterterrorism center and watching the second plane bank at 30 degrees and slam into the south tower you knew the nation was at war in that instant. you also knew who it probably was. i just looked at it and said, i cannot believe this is happening to my nation. we've had 11 months to react to it and we did nothing. >> i think, unfortunately in this country, whether it was this issue and others, we are reacta reactionary. whether the space shuttle, we are always waiting. >> a british historian told me americans are optimist. in a way, that's why we are reactionary. >> it is worth pointing out after the original bombings clinton administration did send missile strikes. i think what we learned from the hideous" cole" attack this was a foe of international criminals who never do the same approach twice. embassies this time and navy ship this time and hostaging planes next time. the cole we realized this is one of the most unpredictable enemies the u.s. had faced. >> attack on "cole" was an attack. we are getting to be 11 years, ten years plus with 9/11 on here and people are getting comfortable. terrorism isn't the forefront as everyone is thinking going into the elections this fall. if you think for one minute that iran is not planning and has the operational aspects going on in this country today, should we choose to do anything against them with respect to their nuclear program, they are wrong and that is what worries more than anything else. >> another issue but we will have to leave it there. kurt, nice to see you. the author of the book called "front burner." thanks for joining us. two men heading to court today accused of a killing spree in tulsa, oklahoma. we are looking at new evidence that may reveal it's a case of racial revenge. china making waves buying into islands off our shores. should the u.s. be worried? what is china going for here? you're watching "starting point." 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"starting point" begins right now. ♪ >> what is this one? >> the song is "change". >> nice. that is roland martin's play list and he is the host of roland martin show. will cain never stops talking. our starting point. people in tulsa, oklahoma breathing a sigh of relief this morning. two suspects in a deadly shooting spree last friday are now in custody. five people shot and three killed and two we were just told have been released from the hospital. the suspects are both white. all of the victims were black. 19-year-old jake england and 32-year-old alvin watts will be arraigned today. police aren't calling it a hate crime but a facebook posting by one suspect suggests this rampage may have been racially motivated. cnn's jason carroll is following developments for us live in tulsa this morning. what are authorities telling us about the possibility of hate crimes charges at this hour? >> reporter: well, there are a couple of things, christine. when you look at whether or not someone is charged with hate crimes, certain criteria have to be met. the crime has to be admitted against a protected class, derogatory or threatening statements have to be used. sometimes investigators will look at past writings from a particular suspect. in this case, they will be looking very closely at jake england and his facebook postings. you'll remember it was two years ago his father was killed by an african-american man and england never got over that. he wrote about that on his facebook page and he used a racial slur. he also said, quote, he said it might just be the time to call it quits. he also made some sort of reference to get ready for more funerals. this was right before the shootings happened. the shootings happened on friday. some of these writings started on thursday. investigators will be looking very closely at this in terms of whether or not they determine whether hate crime charges will be filed against these two particular suspects. >> so jake england made this comment about his father's murder two years ago. do we know any more? he brought this up on his facebook page and the suicide of his girlfriend or fiancee and the mother of his child. what do we know about the murder of his father? do we know more about that? i think it was listed as some sort of domestic dispute? >> reporter: well, what i can tell you about that is, once again, it was something that england never got over and he never felt as though the man who was accused of murdering his father was properly brought to justice and not properly charged in the way he should have been. it was something he never got over. so that is one of the things that investigators will be looking at in terms of what references he made to african-americans on his facebook page before these shootings got under way. at this point, these men, both of these suspects charged with shooting with intent to kill and charged with first degree murder and arraigned in court later today and scheduled to happen at about 10:00 a.m. but look. i can also tell you that investigators from what they are telling me spoke to the police chief this morning. even though have you two arrests in this this is an investigation that is active and still in the process of gathering facts about motive, with both of these suspects. so these are some of the things that are coming into play as they move forward. christine? >> jason carroll in tulsa, thank you. this morning prosecutors in the trayvon martin case are preparing for the possibility that a grand jury could review evidence and testimony tomorrow. it's 43 days since martin was shot and killed. the admitted shooter is george zimmerman, a neighborhood watch volunteer. this as you know has been a highly charged case. this weekend a group of college students walked 40 miles across central florida calling for zimmerman to be arrested and tried in court. but angela corey, the special prosecutor investigating the martin case, has said from the start, this case will likely move forward without a grand jury. janie weintraub is joining us and phyllis is a former state attorney and judge. welcome to the program. >> thank you for having me. >> i'll start with jane. do you think this is going to the grand jury? >> i absolutely think it will. >> why? >> the reason i think that is first of all, there is a special prosecutor handling the case and in any hot potato or hot profile case, normally the cases are given to the community to make a decision so that if there is a backlash these are elected officials, the prosecutors, the state attorney herself and that way she won't suffer the back lack politically. any first-degree murder case has to be indicted by a grand jury and i don't see why if the case goes forward it wouldn't be charged as a first-degree murder. >> phyllis, do you agree? do you think the grand jury will see this? >> absolutely in terms of what would happen on the case. i think that it would be suicide, political suicide for a case of this magnitude not to go to the grand jury and especially given the fact that as a first-degree murder or if it's charged as a first-degree murder it will certainly have to be reported or indicted. >> if it goes to the grand jury that is made up of 15 people and they must decide whether there is probable cause a crime has been committed. in this case, they would have to have some evidence and any piece of evidence that would convince a judge that zimmerman probably committed a crime and either a witness or a piece of physical evidence or something to give them that probable cause. when you think -- i don't know. when you look at the facts of this case, phyllis, let me stick with you. do you think there could be an indictment? . >> well, it's hard to say because you always run the risk when you're looking at at information that you're just receiving in terms of the media that you're not seeing everything. and, of course, information that goes to the grand jury is under their control. in terms it of what they will hear and what they will decide. certainly that doesn't even begin to speculate whether there would be a conviction on this particular evidence. this is the rules of evidence that will come into play at that time. >> ladies, i have a quick question for both of you. is there a concern at this particular time that with the media saturation that it's going to be impossible to find a potential juror of 12 people who have no opinion about this case? >> jayne, you take that first. >> it's not what the standard would be. the standard would be are there 6 or 12 jurors who can put whatever opinions they have aside and base their verdict solely on the evidence in the case. and that would be once they reach a pettitte jury. then we are talking about a grand jury. the grand jury does not have those constraints. >> thank you. >> absolutely, there are none of those kinds of restrictions on the grand jury in terms of how they consider a case or whether they would have to make those kind of decisions about it. the only thing you're looking at in terms of the grand jury is whether there is anyone who is related to anyone in the case in any of these particular way that would bring their fairness into question. >> both of you talked about first-degree murder, but from a special prosecutor standpoint, she has the opportunity to present evidence and actually decide is it first-degree or second-degree murder or even manslaughter. don't you expect her to match the evidence with the potential charge that she wants to possibly indict george zimmerman on? >> well, i do, except that to me, it's either a first-degree murder or it's nothing. first-degree murder is prem premeditati premeditation. under florida law as long as it takes the intent to kill him. as long as it takes to take out the gun i'm going to kill you. second-degree murder in florida is a heat of passion and doesn't apply. manslaughter is basically an accident. it's cull capable negligence. no negligence here. he intentionally shot him and the only issue is whether or not he had the right of self-defense which i don't think he did either. >> well, i think the other issue that you're looking at here, too, though, is the action of the special prosecutor versus the action of the grand jury. i mean, the special prosecutor can consider all other kinds of crimes perhaps in terms of possible charging in this case. but the grand jury and the requirement of that action of the grand jury is only as it relates to first-degree murder. which requires an indictment for the grand jury in order to go forward. >> jayne, let me ask you what role will the stand your ground law play in a potential grand jury? will they consider self-defense during the grand jury or is that going to be left to be made as an affirmative defense at trial? >> normally, it would be left an affirmative defense at trial. however, in this particular case, the statement is going to come in. zimmerman's statement to the police will come in and i believe that, you know, there are reports and positional reports from the police and memos from the police of the stand your ground in the reports that the grand jury will consider. but the question is stand your ground eliminates the need and the duty to retreat. it does not enable you to go be an aggressor or pursue somebody and for example you want you can't race on a race car speedway and shoot the driver of the car that is about to run you over. that doesn't apply and seems to be what happened here. >> that one is clear-cut we can all agree on but the murkiness of what happened in that minute or minute and a half is what the grand jury no doubt will be talking about. nice to see you both this morning. let's see what the other news headlines are. the teen suspect in the deadly ohio school shooting rampage is back in court today. tj lane is accused of shooting and killing three of his fell tow students at his high school in cleveland. he could still be prosecuted as an adult. jennifer hudson is set to testify in the trial of the man accused of killing her mother and brother and nephew. balfour is the estranged of hudson's sister. prosecutors say he gunned down hudson's family back in 2008 in a fit of jealous rage. troubled actress lindsay lohan may be in hot water once again. a woman has filed a battery complaint against lohan accused of shoving her at a west hollywood nightclub. police say they are investigating whether or not the complaint is valid. lohan is currently under probation for shop-lifting, a violation could land her back in jail. 33-year-old bubba watson is waking up with a green jacket this morning. he won the 76 masters tournament in augusta, georgia, in a sudden death playoff with south african louis oosthuizen. watson started the final round in fourth place but shot a 68 to force the playoff. it is his first major win. may the odds be ever in their favor. the hunger games number one at the box office again this weekend. that's three in a row, folks. a total take of more than 300 million dollars now. "snl" using the movie's momentum to have a little fun with the ho host. >> yob shy! come out from behind that bush! let the people see you! so tell me, what has been the most surprising thing about the "hunger games"? >> it's a good question. you know what has been funny? i haven't been that hungry! >> well, you know what that nens? means? boom! >> as a mom of little ones, christine i don't think you probably watched "the hunger games" right? >> no. been doing a lot of dyano dan lately. i haven't had the big sit-down and decide whether i would take them. have you taken yours? >> i haven't but i think i'm going with the 13-year-old. >> it's a part of culture references happening now about "hunger games" you have to do it. >> just go eat! >> read the books. they are really political for kids and extremely violent so something for everyone! >> ahead, should race be a factor in college admissions? the supreme court is about to take that up again. supporters of affirmative action are very worried this time, including steve perry. how a mother's weight may be a factor in having a child with autism. you want to hear the new information out about this this morning and we will leave you with john's playlist, campbell brothers, "i've got a feeling." that's a good one. ♪ i got a feeling cer ] for our families... our neighbors... and our communities... america's beverage companies have created a wide range of new choices. developing smaller portion sizes and more low- & no-calorie beverages... adding clear calorie labels so you know exactly what you're choosing... and in schools, replacing full-calorie soft drinks with lower-calorie options. with more choices and fewer calories, america's beverage companies are delivering. a little bird told me about a band... ♪ an old man shared some fish stories... ♪ oooh, my turn. ♪ she was in paris, but we talked for hours... everyone else buzzed about the band. there's a wireless mind inside all of us. so, where to next? ♪ but proven technologies allow natural gas producers to supply affordable, cleaner energy, while protecting our environment. across america, these technologies protect air - by monitoring air quality and reducing emissions... ...protect water - through conservation and self-contained recycling systems... ... and protect land - by reducing our footprint and respecting wildlife. america's natural gas... domestic, abundant, clean energy to power our lives... that's smarter power today. the supreme court set to look into race and college admission potentially up-endeding the practice of affirmative action across colleges in the country. in states like california and texas, some public universities found a way around the ban using what is called a hoeistic review to decide who will gain administration to the universities. cnn education contributor steve perridowns us now, the founders of a prep school in hartford, connecticut. i know you have big opinions on this. a lot of folks saying they think affirmative action could be trouble with the university entrance policy because they think supreme court might be working against it. what do you think will happen? >> i'm deeply troubled by the direction that we are going and i'm troubled we are still having this conversation. i remember being in college having this conversation and thinking it would go away sometime soon. we understand that affirmative action is a group solution to a group problem. you can't have hundreds of years of segregation and expect to give one group of people 60 years of a policy and expect it will in some way correct the problem. bigger than that, most people have a misconception of what affirmative action is. if you have basic qualifications and both people meet the basic qualifications 3.0 gpa and 1,100 on the s.a.t. and one at 3.0 and 3.5 they are both qualified. affirmative action does not make it possible for unqualified students to get into school and simply opens up the admissions process to look beyond the obvious. >> let's talk about the holistic approach. they couldn't give them an advantage based just on race. they had to look at race and ethnicity as a holistic view. universities saying we don't look at race, we look at everything. is that working? >> well, no. in some states, it's not. in fact, since they removed affirmative action in some states and plummeted of african-american students. see, colleges can go all the way to the continent of africa to find 6'9" kid that can shoot. when they want to integrate, colleges can do that. two lead stars are about african-american shots dead in america. we still have race as a problem. somebody who is working behind have to make sure we improve primary and secondary education for children especially children of color i can tell you we will finish the end of the year. we need to keep in place group solution policies so that we can begin to beat back the problem. >> with all due respect to steve, i feel passionately about this issue but on the opposite end of the spectrum. i think the best way to end racial discrimination is stop discriminating on the basis of race. while steve described this as a group solution to a group problem the problem with that analysis is that we have individual rights in this country and this has individual consequences and students are not admitted to school based upon the color of their skin under affirmative action. >> interesting. in 2004 president bush spoke to a group and i asked him the question you have spoken out against the whole issue but you never questioned legacy. here is what is interesting. my grandparents could not go to certain universities because of their skin color. but if will's grandparents did, they gets the benefit of their legacy and i don't. >> exactly. >> so it's interesting when i hear people who talk about the issue of race, never mention legacy as this as well. >> roland and i have had a debate in this as past. i don't think you oppose legacy as well. listen to this right now. listen, listen to this. i oppose legacy. there. does that fix it for you? >> you might oppose it but it's in place. >> still in place. >> steve, jump in. >> here is where the problem lies, will. what we have to take a look at is that the overall whelming majority of african-american children are going to unfortunately subpar schools and so when compared apples to apples they are not put in a position to be successful. with all due respect to where you're coming from you're not looking at the bigger picture and when we look at individual rights what you're not looking at is the individual rights of children and primary secondary schools are, in fact, being usurped and as a result of that they are not able to compete on the same level. it doesn't mean when they get into school they can't compete because i know that affirmative action may have been considered when i was brought into school. however, i graduated the same degree as everyone else. >> steve, i totally appreciate that. >> when you put a student in a position to be successful, you have to look at the circumstances that created it, will, not just where we are today. >> i totally appreciate that perspective and recognize there is a problem. the answer to the problem, though, isn't one to abridge individual rates. the answer to that problem is me quite honestly, is to go it at the high school level and middle school level and improve the gap in education. not to abridge individual rights later. >> what do you do in the meantime? we will not fix this problem at the end of the year. college admissions already under way and many students have or have not gotten into school. so by next year, we will not figure this thing out either. until such time as it is equal, because i'm there! on the first day that it's all equal, i'll be the first one to say it's over. >> change the law in texas. top 10% and then when they admit regardless you are in any school top 10% you have parents in white districts said my child took a.p. classes this kid who is african-american or hispanic they didn't so my child should get in before them. that is race neutral. >> still a problem with that. >> u.s. military is one of the biggest defenders of affirmative action in the school system and filed briefs for this. >> another point we didn't get to this is interesting to me is in some of the ivies asian american students plain they are being looked over or passed over in favor of whites and other minority students because their representation and their schools are too high overall and looking at complaints on that matter too. race and admission into college is something we will talk about soon. steve perry, nice to see you today and thanks. ahead, the unemployment rate improved last month but what does it mean for you? why the job aspect looks good if you're in certain categories. who is exactly getting hired. you're watching "starting point." great shot. how did the nba become the hottest league on the planet? by building on the cisco intelligent network they're able to serve up live video, and instant replays, creating fans from berlin to beijing. what can we help you build? nice shot kid. the nba around the world built by the only company that could. cisco. and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. 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[ male announcer ] get it now at red lobster's lobsterfest. 12 tempting choices like lobster lover's dream or maine lobster and shrimp. but only for a short time. now at red lobster. i'm laura mclennan and i sea food differently. in this week's smart is the new rich jobs, jobs, jobs. stock market reaction in an hour everyone said was a disappointing jobs report on friday. only 120,000 jobs reported in march and half of the rate of the last three months. if you're looking for job you shouldn't be disappointed. the private sector has been adding jobs for 25 straight months and here is who is getting hired. baby boomers for one. since the start of the great recession employment no americans is up 3.9 million and things looking better for college graduates too. starting salaries are up 4.5% prosecute last year. and more grads are expected to be hired this year than last. >> i think the glass is half full for 2012. i think things are definitely a little better than in 2011. i would rather be looking for a job this year. >> here are a couple of things can you do to improve your chances of getting hired. don't sabotage the changes with an inappropriate social media profile. google yourself and join net on and off-line. if you checked with your network check back in. a company might be hiring again right now. you're hearing about disappointing, disappointing, disappointing. our rating the political fighting is starting how solid the job market is but if you're recently unemployed you have a better chance at getting a job. >> i disagree with the assessment everybody was disappointed with the friday's job reports. >> you were not? >> no. if you were one of the 120,000 you were happy you got a job. >> but there's 13 million more. >> in fairness it's 870,000 more jobs than the month obama took office. >> i believe in progress. the reality is we could sit here and every month say, even if we created 200,000 we still could say that is still disappointing. i'm simply saying positive growth is still positive. >> so politically the thing we can agree is trend is what matters and the problem it looks wobbly. it came down from the months preceded. what happens next month? we don't know the answer but does this month make it look wobbly. >> i say from day one a problem when we look at this on a month-to-month deal it's up, down, great, bad. >> it's always about the trend, right? and which is why i said we had 25 months in a row of private sector jobs growth. you want the private sector adding jobs. 120,000 jobs you're not -- what is happening there is recovery. there is economic growth and it's happening without companies having to add a lot of workers. workers are adding and not making the money of the people who lost their jobs. >> a lot of food service jobs and rick perry recovery if that sense. much like the jobs that rick perry was touting he created. >> he worked at taco bell? what are you saying? >> it was a combination of government jobs and food service jobs. the numbers weren't what they expected but, again, when the president took office, we were losing 750,000 jobs per month until the stimulus went into effect. >> ben bernanke made it clear this is a five to seven-year grow growth. it's not quick hurry like we love. >> i think people know that now. now they are mad about gas prices because now unemployment has become a chronic situation and now mad about gas prices and blaming who is going to fix those too. thanks. >> appeal nafta. >> no, not on that. >> seven more jobs report you're right it's about the trend and seven more jobs report before the election in case you're counting. why is china trying to buy friends and influence less than 200 miles off american shores? i bet you can answer that yourself. a pastor says tim tebow -- wow. i don't know what it says! is the next best guest to having the pope? tim tebow drawing thousands at an easter sunday appearance in texas. the pope? i don't know. >> he's had a better year than the pope. >> do evangelicals want the pope or tim tebow? >> they want jesus! americans believe they should be in charge of their own future. how they'll live tomorrow. for more than 116 years, ameriprise financial has worked for their clients' futures. helping millions of americans retire on their terms. when they want. where they want. doing what they want. ameriprise. the strength of a leader in retirement planning. the heart of 10,000 advisors working with you one-to-one. together for your future. ♪ i worked at the colorado springs mail processing plant for 22 years. we processed on a given day about a million pieces of mail. checks, newspapers, bills. a lot of people get their medications only through the mail. small businesses depend on this processing plant. they want to shut down 3000 post offices, cut 100,000 jobs. they're gonna be putting people out of work everywhere. the american people depend on the postal service. sadly, no. oh. but i did pick up your dry cleaning and had your shoes shined. well, i made you a reservation at the sushi place around the corner. well, in that case, i better get back to these invoices... which i'll do right after making your favorite pancakes. you know what? i'm going to tidy up your side of the office. i can't hear you because i'm also making you a smoothie. [ male announcer ] marriott hotels & resorts knows it's better for xerox to automate their global invoice process so they can focus on serving their customers. with xerox, you're ready for real business. we have news headlines for you. >> south korea says the north is getting ready to conduct a third nuclear test and at the same time, plans for long-range rocket launch with the rocket sitting ready on the launch pad. north korea insist it wants to put a satellite into orbit and showed off the hardware. our stan grant was there. >> reporter: this is about north korean pride. about their ride to launch a satellite and also refuting any claims that this is not, in fact, a satellite launch but, in fact, a covert missile operation. [ speaking in foreign language ] >> reporter: i'm very disturbed. he can deny that? you can deny that it's -- -- [ speaking in foreign language ] >> translator: look for yourselves with your own eyes you can judge whether it's a missile or whether a launch -- [ speaking in foreign language ] >> experts say this could be a test of long-range missile technology that might be used to strike the united states and other targets. starting today, the u.s. navy will cut compensation checks to those affected by fris' militafri friday's military jet crash at an apartment complex. first check totals $2,300 per individual residents. dozens of apartment units were destroyed but amazingly no one killed or sellers hurt. obesity during pregnancy can increase the risk of autism and according to a new study polished in the journal of pediatrics. that is compared to normal weight mothers with normal blood pressure and no diabetes. they are twice as likely to have a child with other kinds of developmental delays. researchers say a third of the women of child-bearing age are obese. pastor joked he is the biggest thing in christianity right now next to the pope that is. tim tebow spoke in front of a crowd of about 15,000 people during an easter church service held outdoors in georgetown, texas. he says the country needs to get back to being one country under god. >> it's kind of crazy. i really don't think i was the first athlete to get on a knee and pray and it's funny because i have actually had the same routine the last seven years and just this year, they started calling it tebow'ing, which i have no idea why, but i've been doing the same thing for the last seven years and this year, it seemed to get popular. but i do think it's pretty cool, because at least, you know, prayer is being talked about. >> sometimes that prayer actually works for him. christine, back to you. >> thanks. we are here discussing is he really the biggest thing in religion? we say no. >> no, he is not. >> christianity who is the biggest in christianity? i. >> joel draws 50,000 people every weekend to his megachurch? >> he could save the jets actually. >> he could! >> sells more tickets than the jets. >> a lot of people think football is a religion. absolutely. bottom line there are a number other christians who play basketball and football and basketball. >> and joel has lost a lot of weight. >> i knew you were going there. china, china, china, economic reach, now extending just miles off u.s. shores in the caribbean. major investments from the chinese government, chinese banks and chinese companies. countries like the bahamas and trinidad and investments risen dramatic. financed a national stadium in the bahamas and children's hospital in trinidad. joining us is the co-author of a report on chinese investment in the region. kevin gallagher of boston university, welcome to the program. it's influence in reach and it's trying to buy friends and influence and in a region of the world that is dominated by the united states. is that the assessment? >> yeah. the chinese have come out of nowhere in latin american and the caribbean. in 2005 little or no presence in terms of investment. my authors and i estimate in between 2005 and 2007 that the chinese have invested $75 billion into the region. that's more than the world bank and development bank and u.s. and import bank combined. >> this is a philosophy the chinese have a long time frame for their investments and all of their foreign policy is an investment in their economy. we have seen them doing this all around the world buying up oil fields and doing partnerships and joint ventures and giving money in loans to countries the u.s. won't deal with. why is it so pointed it's happening in our backyard too? >> like you said the chinese are really looking for things that they need around the world and latin america offers a number of key things. one, latin america has a lot of commodities, iron, oil, and so forth. chinese are going to invest in those kind of products and in the infrastructure to get the products to market to get them back to china. the chinese want to get opportunities for their companies. often like in one of these bahamas project when the chinese get a loan there, they tie the loan to contracts with the chinese firms. another thing is they want to get rid of a lot of their investments in the u.s. treasuries which don't seem to be working so well and diversify those. and, finally, a fourth thing which you find a lot in the caribbean and in central america, if you favor taiwan and the united nations and other nations they might entice you to flip. >> buying friends and influence, no question. wikileaks from 2003 has an interesting theory that china is investing in the caribbean as a strategic move to secure allies when castro's cuba turns over, meaning that you would now have china as a big player in the development of post-communist castro or maybe it wouldn't be post-communist. >> i don't really see it as a big security threat. i see it more as an economic challenge. the united states and the world bank in particular over the past few years has off the top of my head trade liberalization. the anti-poverty programs have merit but this is more what washington says these countries need rather than what they want which is infrastructure and jobs and industrialization. if the u.s. wants to be a player again. we are going to have to reform the world bank and engage chinese. >> kevin, to that point, these countries desire investment. you go where the resources are. if you're a company looking for venture capital funds, it's the exact same thing. china is make ago smart move. the u.s. wants to step up have to get in the game but all of the debt won't make it happen. >> yeah. that's for sure. the united states and the world bank in particular just hasn't been investing in things like infrastructure. ecuador wants billions of dollars to develop its oil and brazil billions of dollars to devep its oil and argentina, railroads and so forth. these things bring jobs. and help with long run growth. the u.s. just has been dormant and the world bank hasn't been moving into this area so it's a new source of funds for the region. >> kevin, nice to see you this morning. thank you. >> thank you. ahead on "starting point," a reality check for newt gingrich sounding like he is conceding defeat but still not dropping out? when you're having so much fun, why would you drop out, right? everything that i've gained in life has been because of the teachers and the education that i had. they're just part of who i am. she convinced me that there was no limit to what we could learn. i don't think i'd be here today had i not had a wonderful science teacher. a teacher can make a huge difference in a child's life. he would never give up on any of us. thank you dr. newfield. you had a big impact on me. [ female announcer ] introducing new nature valley protein bars. 100% natural ingredients like roasted peanuts... ♪ ...creamy peanut butter, and a rich dark chocolate flavor. plus, 10 grams of great tasting protein in every bar. so it's energy straight from nature to you. new nature valley protein bars. find them in the granola bar aisle. they have been bitter rivals during the campaign season and although newt gingrich is not leaving the republican race he now concedes mitt romney is likely to be the candidate for america's choice in 2012. >> you have to be enlisted given the size of his organization and the number of primaries he has won, he is far and away the most likely republican nominee and if he gets to 1144 delegates i'll support him and do whatever i can to help him defeat obama. the entire republican party has to be to defeat barack obama. >> gingrich says he is staying in to help the party building a platform. if romney is the republican nominee he'll work as hard for him as he would for himself. ahead on "starting point," more casualties in the entire american revolution in a single battle. why the lesson of shiloh 150 years ago now has very real lessons for us today. you're watching "starting point." [ male announcer ] the cadillac cts sport sedan was designed with near-perfect weight balance from front to back... and back to front. ♪ giving you exceptional control from left to right... and right to left. ♪ the cadillac cts. ♪ we don't just make luxury cars. we make cadillacs. in your breakfast cereal, what is? now, in every box of general mills big g cereal, there's more whole grain than any other ingredient. that's why it's listed first. get more whole grain than any other ingredient... just look for the white check. . when you think about the american civil war, the battle of gettiburg might be the first to come to mind but winston groom whose work includes the original novel "forrest gump" he has a book of another pivotal battle. americans suffered more casualty in the daylight fight at shiloh than all of the casualties during the american revolution and war of 1812 and mexican war combined. the book is "shiloh, 1862. >> this past week marks 160 years where 24,000 soldiers were killed or wounded on that day. winston groom joins us now. shiloh was supposed to be the ends of the war. many of the people thought it was the end of the year. barely a year since the civil war started and was the foreshadowing of a gruesome conflict. >> it did. it really was a shock to the nation because the only previous battle of any consequence was the battle of bull one where 5,000 casualties and everyone was horrified by this. suddenly, they had five times, all going on 25,000 casualties and i think that everyone began to realize there was not some easy, dainty military maneuver. >> right. >> that was going to end the war. war wasn't over by christmas. what they unleashed was some monstrous thing that was going to drench the country in blood for years to come. >> that one battle was simply chaos. tell me about the word shiloh. shiloh is not a child of celebrity parents as many of a whole generation may think. shiloh was a terrible moment based on a -- it was named after a methodist church and like a corn crib that has now come to represent this horrible moment in american history. >> special name of the patella was pittsburgh landsing. the uniform named its battles after bodies of water or that thing. pittsburgh landing was old steamboat landing there. in the southwest corner of tennessee. the little church which was right in the center of the battlefield came to be known as the battle came to be known after it and in hebrew language, shiloh means place of peace. >> so a beautiful word that became to symbolize a horrible day and horrible moment for american history. >> indeed. >> let's talk about why you wanted to write this book. you have written extensively about the civil war and 16 books you have written and you served in vietnam. what about this particular battle spoke to you? >> i always shied away from it because it was so confusing and i knew about it and i had written about the battle of atlanta and the battle of nashville and then the battle of vicksburg. i sort had taken the war backwards from 19864 and 1863. when i looked at shiloh again i began to make sense of it and the way to approach it. you had the men trying to kill each other in enclosed space of ground about 10 square miles for an entire day and a half and then it was over. i found, i think, enough personal accounts of people who were either there or that were involved in it in some way and let them tell the story from sort of beginning through end through their eyes and it sorted it out a little bit better. >> when i was growing up, my dad was a history teacher so i learned about shiloh through the james caan movie in the late '60s. now the word is synonymous with celebrity offspring or a film about it in the '90s. why do you think a battle this pivotal has been so forgotten and do you think it's too relevant to the issues that divide us today? >> we think we always know how to end something and it turns out war is hell and the assumptions people make about war aren't always that bright. >> they never are. you second-guess it. it's a two-part question. the first part, you know, is i think that it has been written about, but the problem has been, i think, or the story they intended 140 regiments of fighting and they tend to cover all 140 regiments fighting each other and that tends to be a little tedious. but historically, there's very good books about it but their approach does not lendityself to your ordinary reader. >> right. >> and the second thing -- i mean, shiloh is important for a number of reasons. the first reason was that the union, general grant, he got sneaked up on by about 50,000 -- an army of 50,000 men and that doesn't happen very much. >> right. >> he had confederate army get a mile within his line without knowing about it. >> it's a great -- >> he did persevere and he won the battle. >> it's a great read. thank you, sir. >> thanks for having me. >> "the end point" with our panel is next. [ male announcer ] how can power consumption in china, impact wool exports from new zealand, textile production in spain, and the use of medical technology in the u.s.? at t. rowe price, we understand the connections of a complex, global economy. it's just one reason over 75% of our mutual funds beat their 10-year lipper average. t. rowe price. invest with confidence. request a prospectus or summary prospectus with investment information, risks, fees and expenses to read and consider carefully before investing. i'm michael bazinet, president of creative digital imaging of bangor, maine. we have customers all over the united states. we rely on the postal service for everything that we do. the eastern maine processing facility is vital to our operation and our success. if we lose this processing facility we could lose clientele because of increased mailing times. we would have to consider layoffs as a result of that. closure of this plant will affect all of us. ♪ hey, it's sandra -- from accounting. peter. i can see that you're busy... but you were gonna help us crunch the numbers for accounts receivable today. i mean i know that this is important. well, both are important. let's be clear. they are but this is important too. 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[ male announcer ] michelin knows it's better for xerox to help manage their finance processing. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. with xerox, you're ready for real business. so they can focus on keeping the world moving. fiona here was just telling me that ford dealers sell a new tire like...every five seconds, how's that possible? well, we purchase 3 million a year. you just sold one right now didn't you? that's correct. major brands. 11 major brands. oop,there goes another one. well we'll beat anybody's advertised price. and you just did it right there, what's that called? the low price tire guarantee. wait for it, there goes another one. get a $100 rebate, plus the low price tire guarantee during the big tire event. look at that. it's happening right there every five seconds. your not going to run out are you? no. time for our end point. roll land has the dapper pocket square. >> you know how the brother does it. tulsa story takes us back to 1921 where they had the race rise. the wung thing yet to place this day. hopefully, folks will step up when it comes to that because is that still a tragic story. >> i'm going to pay gene wilder to phone up newt gingrich and his willie wonk scream "you get nothing! you lose! good day, sir". >> the best way to end racial discrimination is stop discriminating on the basis of race. >> i think talk about that in "end point" to come. i want to see will. put it there. see what it looks like on will. >>dr

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