Transcripts For CNN Starting Point 20120124

show. hello, everybody. cnn's political analyst roland martin is with us this morning. it's a bad start if i can't get through roland's name. david frum is back with us. nice to have you in person. chatting by satellite. and also this morning, norquist is joining us, president of americans for tax reform. you're going to be our tax expert this morning as we sort through mitt romney's taxes. it's nice to have you. thanks for being with us. mitt romney we know now officially released his tax returns. we're expecting that in about 90 minutes. but there is a preview. the preview is roughly 550 pages long. romney made $21.6 million in 2010. paid over $3 million in taxes. and tesktive tax rate as we mentioned is 13.9%. so to crunch all the numbers for you, right to christine romans in new york. christine, good morning. >> good morning. >> there's three different trusts. there's a foundation, 550 pages. let me put it together for you. 2010, his income was $12 million. taxes, $3 million. gave $4 million to charity. that is pretty interesting here. effective tax rate of 13.9%. then you look at 2011. about $20.9 million. i guess we don't have the screen but i'll roll through it for you. taxes, $3 million. charity about $3 million. effective tax rate in 2011 estimating about 15%. soledad, we'll be closely watching here exactly what the foreign capital he was earning, foreign earnings, things in offshore tax havens. his campaign says he did close a swiss bank account in 2010 but there are investment vehicles running through cayman islands and bermuda. that is going to get some attention. i'm zeroing on in $100 million trust set up for his five son, soledad. the campaign says that they paid no gift taxes on that trust because they were able to use a credit to offset it. people will be looking at that as well. and also, you know, what -- how much he made in carried interest. millions of dollars in something called carried interests. something hedge fund managers, private ek kitty managers get to take advantage of means their earnings are taxed less than regular work. >> all right. clearly lots and lots of questions. we only sort of gotten the first little bit of information. you know, i want to talk to you because you are the tax expert guy. when you see these first releases, again, we don't have the full picture yet, what's your take away? >> what you would expect. he made a lot of money work for bain. paid taxes on that. now that he's living off his investments, in a sense retired while run for president, he's paying capital gains on his investments. when people say paying 15%, that's not instead of paying 20% or 25%. that's on top of the taxes he paid the first time he earned money. foolish enough to die, the government will take about half of that again. the government comes in taxes the same dollar you earned multiple times. we're just looking atlanta least the second or third bite at the apple that he's paying. >> when you look at his charitable contributions, what's your take away sfl. >> impressive compared to other people who have run for president in recent history. it's hard to argue that his stingy, $3 million or $4 million over the last two years, impressive. contributing more than 10% of his income 20 chato his charity apparently tithes to his church. >> i feel like in a way this brings another round of conversation we haven't even gotten the full release yet. >> it opens two conversations. the first conversation is one about mitt romney and the second is one about the way the tax system works. i don't think anybody will suggest that any presidential candidate has an obligation to volunteer to pay extra taxes. president obama has two children, no one is going to tell him, you know, don't take the deductions for two children. say you have zero. you take the deductions you have. then we're going to have an't que about what do we think of his taxes? i hope it's true as grover said, that first mitt romney paid income tax and later he paid capital gains tax, probably not true however. probably used this carried interest loophole since it began to exist in 2000s which treat things that look more like income as if they were capital gains. that's a problem in the system. >> mean that he wouldn't have originally paid taxes on that -- it's unclear because we haven't -- >> he would have paid capital gains taxes. the law says it's capital gains. you have have an argue about whether you want to change that law and tax certain income as income, ordinary income versus capital gains. again, this is the second time he's patd taxes on it. it's possible some of his income was capital gains to start with. some was ordinary income. this is not the first time he's paid taxes on these dollars. >> that discussion about the way the tax system works is a separate discussion from the qualifications -- >> and political discussion. >> policy discussion which is separate from what do you think of this guy who has met his obligations to society and volunteered to pay, again, even more in charity than he paid in taxes. >> good question for adam put m putnam, florida chairman for romney for president, he is in florida this morning. thanks for joining us. do you feel like, okay, the taxes will be released in roughly 90 minutes. it will put this issue to rest, done and done? >> you know, i think i understood you, the question about the release of his taxes, that is, you know, certainly something that scratches our voyeuristic i but it shows that he's a generous guy, gives to charity, tithes to his church, shows that he made a lot of money by successfully creating jobs and deriving money from the private setter opposed to newt gingrich, cashing in and drawing nine from freddie mac while the housing market in america was going down the tubes. >> is that a fair thing to say, voyeuristic i as if americans have been nosy about the taxes as what he said, less about the taxes. i think he actually said i don't care about the taxes. i need a definitive answer from a man who would like to be president of the united states. yes, i'm giving them, no, i'm not giving them. isn't it more about that? >> well, you know, the issue is, you know, i think he's uncomfortable talking about having his whole life spread out in front of him but he released it and he released two years' worth which is more than any of the other presidential candidates have done and they reflect a guy who has been very successful. he has been a self-made guy. he has paid all of the taxes that were due. and he derived his money from the pry vet sector. he's a problem solver. he understands being competitive in a global marketplace. those are the skill sets we need to turn this economy around oz oppose thod this continuous loop of influence peddling in washington, d.c. where you cash out and you get thrown out as being speaker and then you cash out from freddie mac to help give strategic advisor, as he called it, recent washington history, that would influence housing policy in america. >> so his own father, george romney, released 12 years of taxes. is that something your candidate is going to do? >> well, you know, that was a different era. he has released more years of tax returns than any of the other candidates running for office. in fact, there were candidates on the stage last night who still haven't released their taxes. and yet, you know, little was made of that. so, you know, i think the issue here is less about the tax story, which is now out. there's nothing new there. he's paid at the 15% rate. the rate that anyone would pay on investment income. it reveals his charitable giving. the story is what's buried in that $1.6 million contract with freddie mac and what other clients were out there paying either gingrich or portions of gingrich incorporated to lobby for different aspects of public policy, whether it's housing policy or health care policy? >> we'll have an opportunity to talk to trent franks just ahead and ask him those questions later this morning. it's interesting, roland, to hear -- i'm not surprised, it's been constantly about the taxes, let's talk about gingrich and influence peddling. >> i think for the american people, the issue was absolutely why can't you answer the question? why can't you be definitive. now he's answered that. i don't think people out there are sitting here going, oh, my god, this rich guy paid -- this guy made a bunch of money and he paid a lower tax rate. i think the problem that people have is there's a belief that people of means are using the influence in congress to be able to affect tax law to greatly benefit them versus the average people. people are going to be asking, can this man understand me? can he understand what i go through in my life? to have this back and forth or will he pay this, this to chari charity, i'm sorry. >> it's really two problems. one is, can he understand me, regular guy who is paying 40% tax rate, but number two, the tax system, is it flawed, how is it possible, as warren buffett would say, that my assistant is paying less money in taxes percentage wise. >> george romney was governor of michigan when he began to run to president. this was an era in which we knew absolutely nothing about public finance. we didn't know who gave money to the president. we had no information at all on any of these campaigns. george romney, governor of michigan was running against lyndon johnson, accumulated a fortune worth in today's money about $100 million. in ways that were deeply disturbing. what he's trying to show is i have a sitting governor and i have not gotten rimp as a city governor as opposed to the man i think i'm going to be running against who was a senator who did get enormously rich. >> hold that thought because we are going to go to commercial. thank you. no, we're actually going to get christine updates. sorry, it's like wrangling cats this morning. good morning. >> good morning to you. president obama putting the final touches on the tate stat of the union address. third and probably most important he's expected to use that speech to frame the message of his re-election campaign. coming up at 6:45 eastern we're going to talk with obama senior adviser valerie jarrett about what to expect from the president tonight. all right. two more bodies recovered from the the wreckage of the cruise ship cost a concordia off the dose owcoast of italy. brings the number of confirmed victims as 15 and 1 people are still unaccounted for. italian officials say salvage workers have started pumping fuel out of the cruise liner. the pardoned mississippi murderers will remain free. mississippi court ruled yesterday there will be no change in conditions. haley barbour granted full pardons to 200 people as he closed out his second term as governor. the public will be able to pay their respects to the late legendary football coach joe paterno. people can view the body today and tomorrow on the penn state campus. a private funeral service will be held tomorrow. paterno's son jay and daughter mary kay will be talking with soledad. kentucky senator ran paul refusing a full body airport scanner nashville. tsa says a targeted pat down is usually used to address the alarm. paul's office said he was blocked from boarding the flight. things were eventually sorted out and he boarded a later flight. u.s. stock futures trading down. futures of the dow, nasdaq, s&p 500, a little bit lower. today it's about corporate earnings. greece debt deal neg yagss. very big week for economic news in this country. soledad? >> got to wrinkle these -- i couldn't hear you. i'm shushing roland. you know what, we are -- they're like still discussing taxes. which is great. we're going to keep talking. lyndon johnson taxes. you can tell how this morning is going to go, twef minutes in, and i will lost complete control. >> no, you haven't. >> i know. we've got to turn and talk about this weather. massive clean-up. we talked a little bit about it yesterday in alabama. we have pictures. three tornadoes touched down in jefrer son county and tuscaloosa county. now there are two people dead. 100 people injured. and look at these pictures. 200 homes absolutely destroyed. there is a state of emergency now in effect. those pictures are coming to you from clay, alabama, where reynolds wolf is live for us. what's the latest there? >> well, soledad, right now the latest that we have is unfortunately two fatalities, 82-year-old man lost his life in this event, also a 16-year-old girl. thankfully in this neighborhood though, where we happen to be, gray brook which is just outside of clay, alabama, a place, a subdivision with roughly 100 homes. out of those 100 homes anywhere from 25 to 30 of those homes utterly destroyed. one that you see right behind me, just over 24 hours ago in perfect shape and now in complete ruin. it was actually a two-story house at one time, now it's a single level. it looks like it may end up being a total loss. insurance field going through this neighborhood yesterday. a lot of homeowners trying to sift through this wreckage, trying to find things that matter so much to them. the good news in this neighborhood is despite the devastation, only one injury that person expected to be back from the hospital today. everyone else minor injuries. that in itself is certainly very lucky. back to you, soledad. >> yeah, that's very true, reynolds. thanks for the update. ahead this morning on "starting point" we're going to talk to two members of congress, new members of congress, terry sewell is the first african-american woman elected to congress in the state of alabama and the tea water's allan west will join us. he, of course, is from florida. plus, while talk about state of the union. that address is tonight and it's going to be all about the economy. what does the president need to say to satisfy americans? and our "get real", the hockey goalie who snubs the president at the white house. we'll tell you what happened. you're watching "starting point." 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[ laughs ] hey! ♪ welcome back, everybody. we're coming to you from the diner this morning in washington, d.c. the food is really, really good. nice to have you back with us. joining our panel this morning is democratic congresswoman terry, it's nice to have you. also with her, allan west from florida. tea party member. we talked about your election a year ago now. >> yes. >> nice to have you was this morning. appreciate it. first and foremost, you're the new bye newbies, how is it going? >> i have to say my heart and prayers are going out to the devastation people by the tornadoes yesterday. part of it was in my district as well. last year was frustrating for me. >> americans would agree. >> 365 days and no jobs plan. and frankly, the folks in my district didn't send me out there to be part of the problem but part of the solution. >> frustrating a word you would use, too? >> a lot of things we could have done. for me, serving 22 years in the military to have the opportunity to continue to serve my country is a great honor and privilege. that's what makes it special each and every day. when i look at the fact that today is 1,000 days that we have not had a budget for the united states of america, you know, the house, one of the things we did, we passed a budget last year. but that is still sitting over there at the senate. we have got to get this country back on track. >> in the next hour or two men it's or so we're going to be hearing the full tax report from mitt romney who is hoping to be the republican nominee for president of the united states. a little bit has been leaked, you know, released a little bit of information. i can throw it up on the screen. made $21 million, more than $21 million in 2010, paid $3 million in taxes, a little bit more. his effective tax rate was 13.9%. what do you think of that? >> well, i mean, i'm not going to demonize a guy for going out and being successful and making money. i think that governor romney operates on the capital gains tax, investments, what he lives off of instead of doing it off of his income. i think the most important thing i see in this republican process is that we are severely betting our candidates. we are turning them over like pancakes since we're here at breakfast and seeing -- >> pancakes like that? >> absolutely, like those pancakes. and i think that's better because, you know, let's be very honest. in 2008 we weren't allowed to ask many questions of president obama and at some point you got chastised for using his middle name. i'm proud that we have a very good vetting process. >> i think that was a little slam on the media in there but i'll move on. talk to me about if you want to see more information about mitt romney's taxes because it's only one year and some people have called for more and others have said, listen, he will release them in an hour, enough a enough. >> look. i believe that in this day and age, especially when we're trying to get the economy back on track it's about shared responsibility. something is fundamentally wrong if a person of hits great waet is only paying 13.9% effective tax rate and most of americans are paying 28%, 30%. they make far less. i think that, you know, i'm looking forward to hearing what president obama has to say tonight at the state of the union but i think it's about shared responsibility. i think that it's not about the wealthy just getting richer. >> what do you think people in this state of florida, the debate heads to florida, is focus is in florida. what do you think they're going to say when they say, i pay 28% effective tax rate and here's a guy who is worth $250 million and he's paying significantly less percentagewise. do you think they're going to care? >> we need to have a whole hearted reform of our tax code system because the united states of american, since 16th amendment came about, we have a progressive tax code which means based upon the amount that you are making on the income tax side the more that you are paying but, also, we are capital gains tax and dividend taxes which have less, you know, tax codes, 13%, 15%. and that's why i believe that immediately we go to a flat tax system across the board, somewhere between 13% and 16%. you can reduce the number of deductions that you have. we can zero out capital gains and dividends tax. i think we need reform for corporate tax rate as well. >> how come you haven't endorsed anybody yet? >> i think the american people all across america can make that decision. >> that's such a political answer. >> it's not a political answer. >> a lot of people are endorsing. >> it's not. look -- >> a little bit political. i would argue more than a little bit. you have two lead -- >> i mean, really, i am not trying to -- >> because there are people who have aed looking tea party -- >> i'm not trying to influence the process. let the american people decide and whoever the eventual nominee is i will get behind that nominee and i will try to help that nominee. >> do you both want to know more about the topic of the debate in terms of candidate newt gingrich was all about influence peddling or being a consultant, et cetera, et cetera. do you want to mow more about that? >> frankly, i have been quite amused by the whole republican debate, to be honest with you. >> i'm glad you find humor. >> it's been quite amusing, actually. >> glad. >> it was -- these are really tough issues. very tough issues. and it's about putting our country on track. >> i hope the president talks about tough issues tonight. >> i'm sure he will. >> i hope you gys aren't going together on date night. i know we're going to have bipartisansh bipartisanship. >> i've been married for 22 years. that's only person i want. >> it's a little tense. you're always welcome to join us here. >> my pleasure. >> nice to see you. still to come this morning, last year's stanley cup champion boston bruins were honored by the president at the white house but there was one notable absen absence. the team's star goalie. we'll tell you why he decided not to show up. that's our "get real" segment. ♪ made sure his credit score did not go bad ♪ ♪ with a free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ app that he had ♪ downloaded it in the himalayas ♪ ♪ while meditating like a true playa ♪ ♪ now when he's surfing down in chile'a ♪ ♪ he can see when his score is in danger ♪ ♪ if you're a mobile type on the go ♪ ♪ i suggest you take a tip from my bro ♪ ♪ and download the app that lets you know ♪ ♪ at free-credit-score-dot-com now let's go. ♪ vo: offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™. ♪ welcome back, everybody. you're looking at the inside of the diner which is where they are hosting us for breakfast this morning as "starting point" most to washington, d.c. because the state of the union is tonight. our "get real" segment talks about, in fact, president, a job that often invitis sports teams to the white house to congratulate them when they have a winning championsh wroionship. yesterday it was the nhl's boston bruins turn. the president enjoyed a funny moment. listen. >> the bruins, the celtics, the patrio patriots, enough already, boston, what's going on? uh? >> behind the scenes believe it or not there was much less laughter behind the scenes and it was more political because missing from those pictures they were taking was a bruins goalie, tim thomas. and thomas is just one of two americans on that team. he played a key role in the bruins amazing season. but he chose not to attend because he says he's unhappy with the state of the country. he is opposed to what he calls the out of the control growth of the federal government. and conservative commentator glenn beck he says is his hero. thomas said this. this was not about politics or a party, as in my opinion both parties are responsible for the situation we are in as a country. this was about a choice i had to make as an individual. the bruins coach cam neely says visiting the white house was an monday nor. he was disappointed that thomas did not attend but he had no other comment than that. the other american teammate on the team did attend. i guess steve was getting real. >> you know what, i would like to ask that hockey player how did he feel about taxpayers building the new stadium. you're benefiting from government with a new arena. i'm just saying. >> hypocrisy in sports. >> at any level, state or local, building stadiums for anybody. there are a lot of nice people who might develop stadiums and name it after themselves and ask spors operation's oh. >> actually thanks don't. >> they now all get paid taxpayer. >> they don't like government when a lot of what you do in some ways have helped create is hypocritical. >> all presidents bring these guys in washington to stand behind them to make a political statement about how cool they are but they don't like when one of them decides to mouth off. you're supposed to stand in the back and look good. all presidents do that. >> some of it, is i think, truly, regardless of over the years just the honor of coming into the white house. if you win a championship, it's a cool thing. >> chicago bears man did the same thing, didn't like obama. but again, when you say i don't like government, that's fine. then why don't you oppose your stadium. enough said. still cocome this morning we're going to talk to texas senator hutchison. she'll join our panel live and join us to talk about mitt romney's tax returns and who she thinks won last night's debate. plus, the strongest solar storm in years hits earth. what does that mean for those of us here on earth? 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[ male announcer ] sustainable solutions. here's an update on the progress. we're paying for all spill related clean-up costs. bp findings supports independent scientists studying the gulf's environment. thousands of environmental samples have been tested and all beaches and waters are open. and the tourists are back. i was born here, i'm still here and so is bp. there it is, breakfast at the diner. here we are in washington, d.c. tonight, of course, is the state of the union which pleemeans we going to be listening as well. grover norquist, we are on tv now. you will have to keep the panel quiet. >> when it docomes to taxes, he doesn't stop. >> first, though, other stories. christine romans has those stories for us. >> grover norquist talks tax snes thanks, soledad. the prime still a week away but voting has already began. early voting began statewide over the weekend. officials say 53,000 ballots were cast. about 180,000 absentee ballots have been cast. washington state legalize same-sex. legislature now has the votes to pass the measure. washington to be the 7th state and the district of columbia to let gay and lesbian webs wed. oil embargo won't work. they say they're confident they can find new markets for their oil. the eu embargo part of sanctions to pressure iran to resuming talks on that country's nuclear program. doctors say illinois nor mark kirk is expected to make a full mental recovery from a stroke he suffered over the weekend but could have paralysis in his arm and leg. kirk you may recall was elected to fill the illinois senate seat left vacant by president obama. the strongest solar storm in six years. now hitting earth. the first solar flare occurred sunday night. officials at noaa say radiation will likely continue through tomorrow. gps systems could be effected if the storm is long enough it could even damage power grid transformers. and want to get away? a new study finds airline passengers paid the lowest fare nearly 6% below average if they purchase their tickets six weeks before their flight. wait longer than that, you'll likely pay more. u.s. stock futures trading lower this morning. futures for the dow, nasdaq, s&p 500 all day. lightest today they give new meaning on the interest rates. we will hear more about what the fed's plans are going forward. the fed will provide new details about the forecast for the economy and for interest rates in an effort to increase transparency. soledad? >> christine, thank you for that. we have been detailing and revealing some of the details of mitt romney's tax return information. we expect in the next hour or so to get full details. for 2010 in adjusted gross in, $21 million and total tax of $3 million. effective tax rate of 13.9%. it brings us right to texas senator kay bailey hutchison. she joins our panel. nice to have you. thanks for being with us. let's talk, senator, if you can about some of these numbers. when we begun to get some of the information about mitt romney's taxes, duchl like this is enough? what more do you want to know? >> i think that his release of his taxes is a good thing because it had been a distraction in the campaign. we all know that he is a self made man, that he worked tirelessly to earn his own way and he is very wealthy. we know that. so releasing the returns, i think, is a good thing just to get the distraction out of the way. and i think he made the right call. >> you have not at this point endorsed anybody yet but you have said that you think mitt romney is excellent, a quote, and news gingrich has, quote, shown a lot of creativity. i'm not sure how to take that last one. what does that mean, show a lot of creativity? >> well, he is a person that has original ideas. there's no question about that. is he the right person for our ticket? i think that we're going to play it out. we're going to see what the voters say. i think that everybody is on fairground to criticize and look at the records because we want our strongest nominee to go against president obama because we disagree so much with the direction our country is going under president obama. >> last night in the we debate, i'm sure you watched, mitt romney was attacking newt gingrich, and really on his leadership ability. i want to play a little bit of what he said. >> i think if you choose the president of the united states you're looking for a person who can lead this country in a very critical time, lead the free world, and the free world has to lead the entire world. i think it's about leadership and the speaker was given an opportunity to be the leader of our party in 1994 and at the end of four years he had to resign in disgrace. >> is that an accurate assessment? i mean, you're one of the longest serving senators. you were there at the time of this -- ethics investigation happening. there's a whole debate over whether newt gingrich quit or was he pushed? you tell me. disgraced? >> soledad, i didn't serve in the house. but i do think the point that america is the free world leader and everywhere i do when i travel in foreign countries, they are looking to america to lead the way. and what have we done in this administration? we have gotten to 100% debt to gross domestic product. that's almost greece. that is not leading the world. it is not understanding that we can't have a $15 trillion debt. i think people look to us -- >> and i understand your position on that but let me interrupt you -- i'm sorry, senator pr forgive me. but let me interrupt you because i want you to answer the question i asked. i know you were serving as a senator, not in the house. but you were at that time. and the debate we were having yesterday is people who support newt gingrich were rewriting history, i thought, to some degree. it was a debate over was he pushed or did he up and quit? since you were in washington, d.c., in the beltway at that time, what happened? >> soledad, i think you should let the people who were there in the house make that call. but i think -- i think honestly, mitt romney has taken a lot of hits from a lot of candidates, criticizing him and i think it's fair game for him to bring out the records of the other candidates that are still in the race. i mean, that's what people want to have hashed out before we have our nominee selected. and so i have no problem with him going on the offensive. he's been on the defense for a long time. >> okay. >> senator hutchison, roland martin here, texas longhorn. here's what i'm confused by. we trade with china. we're cool with them. we're fine with the soviet union. yet, why is it that we are continuing a policy where we are saying no to cuba, they're communist, but we're cool with other communist countries like china? >> on nest, roland, i'm dplad that you' glad that you're a good texas aggie. but i do think that we have tried the approach with cuba that we don't trade and we don't have any dealings with them. that has not worked, in my opinion. i think we should open trade and start being able to talk to the cuban people about freedom and how -- what they could have if they had freedom. and so i'm one of those who believes that we should be starting to open the door and let them have the capability like the people in china do to have the internet and the freedom of hearing other views. i think that will be good for cuba. >> glad to hear it. >> senator kay bailey hutchison joining us this morning. nice to see you. appreciate it. >> thank you, soledad. still to come this morning, we're going to talk about what we can expect from the state of the union address. valerie jarrett, senior adviser for president obama will join us up next. welcome back to "starting point." this morning we have on cushion, not just is pros on sunday but the danger for children across the country. it's all part of dr. sanjay gupta's stock meantry called "big hits, broken dreams" and it premiers this weekend on cnn. take a look. >> north carolina, it was really big. >> if you're from around this area you know jh rose. >> i pumped up, excited, ready to go. >> that's all i thought every single day, football, football, football. >> football is a tough sport. you know, it ain't for everybody. there's collisions in this sport. >> here he is, my little brother is not moving. he needs help breathing. i mean, i just lost it. >> tackled, walked to the sidelines and then collapsed. >> friday night's death of waller is being felt -- >> it was a very tough time for the whole community. >> i remember getting hit hard. it rang my bell. >> for the first three weeks it was a constant headache. >> the trainer was asking me questions and i was answering them all wrong. >> there are a small percentage of impacts that simulate that car crash. >> he does have symptoms of a concussion. >> parent came to you and said, coach, my kid really wants to play football but i want you to tell me that he's going to be safe. >> i can't guarantee that. >> it is a violent game. that's always going to be there. can we make this game safer? >> oh, my goodness. sanjay, so interesting, my boys who are now 7 are dieing to play tackle football. and all i can think about is exactly what you have shown there, people slamming into their little heads. are there more reporting of their concussions or just more dangerous today? >> i think there is more reporting. you're going to hear the numbers of concussions go up and people say, look, that's a sign that things are getting worse. not necessarily. it could be good news because it increased awareness. soledad, one thing worth pointing out is with most things kids with much better at healing and recovering than adults are because their bodies are much more resistant to blows to the head. when it comes to concussion specifically, they can be more problematic as a player is younger because the brain is still developing at that age so they can be more problematic than a player in college or certainly professional football player. so that's of concern for kids in particular. that's why i was so interested in doing this as well. we know more about what these blows to the head do at all ages than ever before. i love football. i love watching it. i have all daughters. i don't have to make the decisions you do, soledad. >> i'm sure you like it. but would you play it, is the question, not do you like it, would you play it as a doctor? as a brain doctor. >> right, right, right. but i have three daughters. i don't know if i make the decision for my kids. i would let them play as long as they are implementing some of the rules that people are talking about now. not leading with the head, taking out some of the helmet to helmet collisions during practice because we nind a lot of the injuries that occur to kids' blairains occur from prace from those drills over and over again. i think that there are things that can be done to make the game safer. that's what we've found over the last year. >> soledad, i have four nephews. i absolutely do not want a single one of my nephews playing football. my nephew chris went to the houston, what do you want to play one day? i said, stop, i would rather him be a owner than player. i just don't -- what is happening with these young kids having these concussions, when you're talking about -- look at the gentleman who played with the cincinnati bengal, 20 something years old. when he died they took his brain, wait a minute, they thought he was a 60-year-old guy. >> we're bog to bring sanjay back in the next hour to talk more about brain injuries. this documentary airs on sunday on january 29th at 8:00 p.m. we'll keep our conversation going. watch someone getting hit, i cringe. i think, no way i would let me kids play. valerie jarrett is going to join us as well. talk about what we can expect from the state of the union address that's happening this evening. you're watching "starting point." okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle -- 8% every 10 years. wow. wow. but you can help fight muscle loss with exercise and ensure muscle health. i've got revigor. what's revigor? 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[ major nutrition ] ensure. nutrition in charge! look at that. holding thebaby and trying to eat your breakfast. i have done that many, many times. >> that's momma there. look at the daddy. >> hand off the daddy. welcome back, everybody. you're watching "starting point." tonight the president will deliver his third state of the union address. what are we expecting to hear from the president? valerie jarrett is a senior advisor to president obama. we want to talk about state of the union. first and foremost i want to talk about taxes. we're expecting in 40 minutes we'll get the full release of mitt romney's taxes. you've heard a little bit about what he's released. i want to know your reaction and if you want to know more about his taxes. >> i'm glad you brought up taxes, soledad, because tonight is an opportunity for the president to talk about taxes. he quoted warren buffet a while ago where warren said, it's ridiculous that he has a tax system where he pays a lower tax rate than his very own secretary. so tonight the president will be able to describe what he thinks is a fair tax system. i think it's also important that this evening he's going to walk through his vision for the future. this is a make it or break time for the middle class. it's a time where as a book end to the comments that he made at his speech in kansas last month where we want to really make sure that our system is based on fairness, where everybody who plays by the same rules can exceed their wildest dreams. >> let's ask you that. >> pardon me, soledad. >> sorry for interrupting. you said the president has previewed in his state of the union speech which is going to happen tonight is about fairness. let's go back specifically to mitt romney's taxes. when you look at what he's released is fair? do you feel like it's the american way or would the american people say it's unfair? where do you stand on mitt romney's taxes. >> soledad, he's in the middle of the republican primary. there are 47 more primaries or caulk cau caucuses. i think what's important is that we have a system that's fair. i'm going to leave it alone. where everybody is paying their fair share. one that rewards success but recognizes that everyone who is successful in this country derives that success because they're in this country, a country that educates its children so we have the best work force in the world, a country that invests in infrastructure, roads, bridges, technology, a country that invests in science and technology so people can invent the drugs that cure dreadful diseases. i think as the president describes his vision for america -- >> that sounds like you're giving us -- i'm sorry for interrupting you. it sounds like this is the preview of what we're going to expect from the state of the union. david frum wanted to ask you a question. >> yes. i understand the president is going to talk about the future. how much time will he spend on the past, in particular the past three years? is the president going to offer some assessment of why he doesn't think the economy has done better? is there going to be maybe even a hint of self-criticism and the suggestion of a different approach? >> i'm not going to preview too much about the president's speech. i want to leave that to him. he will describe how we got to where we are, but more importantly how we move the country forward. over the last 22 months, for example, we've had previous sector job growth each and every month. we created 3.2 million jobs. we created more jobs last year than any year since 2005. we're clearly moving in the right direction. as wees know and you know too many families are still sitting around their kitchen tables trying to stugle to make ends meet. what the president's belief is that we should have a country that invests in manufacturing, that invests in new energy, that invests in preparing our work force. it has american values that are about fairness and equity. >> valerie jarrett is at the white house for us this morning. she's the president's senior advisor. nice to see you. we appreciate your time. >> thanks a lot. straight ahead we're going to continue to talk about mitt romney's taxes. also, what does it mean for newt gingrich? we'll assess some of the debate last night which seemed a little strange to me. without the audience cheering, you really felt that newt gingrich took it down a notch. we'll talk about that. also we have some new video of this ship wreck. i'm going to show you some of those updated pictures. and we'll talk about rising tensions with iran. "new york times" columnist has an op ed on the possibility of bombing iran's nuclear facility. all of that straight ahead as "starting point" continues right after this. for fastidious librarian emily skinner, each day was fueled by thorough preparation for events to come. well somewhere along the way, emily went right on living. but you see, with the help of her raymond james financial advisor, she had planned for every eventuality. ...which meant she continued to have the means to live on... ...even at the ripe old age of 187. life well planned. see what a raymond james advisor can do for you. to help protect your eye health as you age... would you take it? well, there is. [ male announcer ] it's called ocuvite. a vitamin totally dedicated to your eyes, from the eye-care experts at bausch + lomb. as you age, eyes can lose vital nutrients. ocuvite helps replenish key eye nutrients. 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[ male announcer ] ocuvite. help protect your eye health. can you enjoy vegetables with sauce [ male announcer ] ocuvite. and still reach your weight loss goals? you can with green giant frozen vegetables. over twenty delicious varieties have sixty calories or less per serving and are now weight watchers-endorsed. try green giant frozen vegetables with sauce. when bp made a commitment to the gulf, we knew it would take time, but we were determined to see it through. today, while our work continues, i want to update you on the progress: bp has set aside 20 billion dollars to fund economic and environmental recovery. we're paying for all spill- related clean-up costs. and we've established a 500 million dollar fund so independent scientists can study the gulf's wildlife and environment for ten years. thousands of environmental samples from across the gulf have been analyzed by independent labs under the direction of the us coast guard. i'm glad to report all beaches and waters are open for everyone to enjoy. and the economy is showing progress with many areas on the gulf coast having their best tourism seasons in years. i was born here, i'm still here and so is bp. we're committed to the gulf for everyone who loves it, and everyone who calls it home. -- captions by vitac -- www.vitac.com zbloo good morning, everybody. you're watching starting point. we're liver from the diner this morning. lots to talk b. we're going to get right to t. thank you so much. could i grab some milk? romney's tax release. we know that in 30 minutes or so he's going to be releasing some numbers. we'll talk about what he has made. we know that he's paid lower than a 14% tax rate. the question is, is this issue heating up or is it finally dead for the candidate? plus the new mitt romney. if you watched the debate last night, you noticed that he was more aggressive and even said i'm not going to sit arn and just take it anymore. we'll talk about that debate strategy this morning. this morning joe paterno, two of his children will join me live. "starting point" begins right now. good morning. welcome, everybody. we're coming to you live from the diner this morning where i've gotten my fresh cup of coffee. i'm going to get that all set. we're back with our panel too. let's introduce everybody. from the far, far end is reverend norquist. david frum is back with us. roland martin is making trouble. good morning again. also this morning we are joined by our guest who is trent franks, representative from the state of arizona. he's a surrogate for newt gingrich. it's nice to have you. >> first to be here. >> feel free to order coffee in the middle of the show. let's talk taxes. >> taxes. >> your candidate has been pushing, pushing, pushing mitt romney to release the taxes. finally this morning there was a release. we'll have the more full release for the years 2010 and 2011 in about half hour. as far as you're concerned, is the issue settled for you? >> i don't want to contradict the candidate. i'm convinced that if there were an issue that could hurt us in the general election, mr. romney's taxes, it would be in those tax returns prior to him beginning to run for president because a person running for office, i'm assuming, would pay very close attention to those kinds of things. perhaps if there were any issues, it would be more focused on those returns prior to him running for election. mr. gingrich has made his comment and i certainly understand that. >> let's get a little bit of crunch gs the numbers. christine has that. >> it's interesting, soledad, because in 2011 he had a much better year in his investments than 2010. when you compare the two, you can see 2011 he's estimated to have made $21 million. compare that with last year, that's quite a bit more. taxes though just a little bit more, 3 million in taxes. he gave 3 million to charity. his effective tax rate for this year they're estimating 15.4%. also in these numbers according to reuters, washington post and "the wall street journal", there was a closed account in switzerland. they closed that in 20106789 a romney advisor telling reuters that they realized that might not look so great. they weren't hiding anything in it. he had a swiss account. there's also investment vehicles that run through the caymen islands and bermuda. it was all legal and all fine. a couple things we're watching. david k. johnson who is a tax expert was on the show a couple hours ago. there are special rich for super rich types. he was able to gift $100 million to a trust fund for his sons tax free. that will likely get scrutiny today as well as where in the world he's making these millions, soledad. >> all right. christine, thank you for that. we're back with congressman trent franks. let's talk. if everything is open and on the table, the candidates said taxes, people have to dig through it. you don't want any kind of october surprise, does that same thing apply for newt gingrich and the ethics investigation? >> i think it does. if people will go to newt.org/answers they'll see the entire ethics laid out. >> let's throw that up. newt has never engaged in lobbying, period. newt made a decision after resigning that he would never be a lobbyist so that nobody would ever question the genuine nature of his advice and perspectives. >> hilariously he said last night, i took legal advice on how to not be a lobbyist. when somebody asked that question, where is the bright line, that is not because i don't want to go anywhere near that bright line. that is a question you ask to walk right up to the bright line and stay away from it. with gingrich, this is an example of the limits of disclosure. the things we would like to know about the newt gingrich enterprises are not contained in his tax returns. he built, as he said, a whole series of interlocking entities that receive a great deal of money from we don't know exactly who and why, but from companies whom he advocated. those are the things we are never going to know about. >> i'll take issue with that. i asked for counsel and advice all the time from my house counsel and from the ethics committee because i want to stay as far away from those lines as possible. the complexity of the rules in congress is just profound. >> so walk me through the definition then. what's the definition of a lobbyist? what's the definition of someone who's an influence peddler? what's the definition of a consultant? i was a well-paid consultant. my expertise was in how congress works. >> he was also a visionary leader. i can say this to you from personal experience. many times we would, as a conference, as a republican conference, would ask newt gingrich to come to speak to us on different issues because we knew that we would find prodigious insight and have the wealth of knowledge that this man seems to just embody. i will say to you that he has a tremendous influence on policies simply because he knows so much about it and because he has had so much experience. sometimes we need that. >> when you add a million dollar plus salary to that isn't that the definition of a lobbyist? >> no. a lobbyist is someone who is paid by someone to go and effect or persuade people to pass legislation on their behalf that's important to them. >> excuse me. you are a member of congress. are you trying to tell me that if newt gingrich is being paid by freddie mac who is hired by the chief lobbyist when the former speaker of the house walks into your office and that other house republican conference, that he does not carry the same sway as a regular public citizen? last time he said i'm a public citizen. a public citizen can't come address the house republican conference? >> sure, they can. that's completely false. the public -- we invite public citizens to come and address our conference all the time on retreats, all the things. that's what we did with newt gingrich. i would suggest to you that if he was such an advocate for fannie mae and freddie mac, i remember when they were voting to bail them out. newt gingrich advocated voting against that. i voted against it. he was against bailing them out. so if he was such an advocate for fannie mae and freddie mac, why would he vote -- work to someti sometimy one of them? >> we've got to end our conversation here. we're out of time. we truly appreciate it. still ahead this morning, there are flags across pennsylvania flying at half staff in honor of joe paterno. the winningest coach in division i college football died, as you know, passed away on sunday, less than three months after coaching his final gape. his career came to an abrupt end after those child mow less station charges came to live. one of his assistants. his children join us. mary kaye paterno and jay paterno. we appreciate your time. our condolences to your family. tell us a little bit about joe paterno's last day. was he just in such decline that he couldn't communicate or was he aware of his family around him? >> go ahead, mary. >> okay. he was communicating with us. we were all there. all 17 grandchildren came to see him. my mom, some close friends and all the children and spouses. he was communicating with us. we were doing most of the talking, but he would look at us and we knew he was hearing what we were saying. >> i know that president h.w. bush reached out to the family. i know that president obama reached out to the family. what did they say? what message did they have? >> well, the president called and basically just told us that he and michelle were thinking about us, offered us their condolences. one of the neat things was he said to my mom that he had great respect for the work that both of my parents did to build penn state into a great institution. that obviously meant a lot to my mom. he told my mom how thrilled he was to have gotten the chance to meet both my mom and my dad last february when he came into town. so it was very meaningful to my mother and very moving. it was awfully nice of the president to call us. >> depending on where you stand, there's lots of questions about your dad's legacy. there are those who look at his winningest record and say that is the legacy. there are others who look at the scandal and say that's part of the legacy. what do you think the complex picture of your father's legacy is going to be, mary kaye? >> i'm sorry. did you ask me that question? >> yes. >> i did. yes. did you hear it? >> my father lived -- yes, i k. my father lived a full life. he lived his life -- he was -- what you saw is what you got with my dad. he was honest. he had integrity. he was committed to doing the right thing, and there was no question in any of our minds or his that he always did the right thing, even if it wasn't easy. i think back on -- i remember one time i had an argument with him i think when i was in high school, and he and my mom had gone shopping. we were on vacation. they came back from their trip with this little plaque. it had a hippo and a ryan know on it. it said it is better to be hated for what one is than loved for what one is not. that's been hanging in their kitchen ever since then, which is probably close to 30 years now. that really defines him. he was what he was and he didn't worry about what other people thought about him. he was most concerned about doing what he believed was right. >> i would just add as far as the -- i would just add as far as the 409 wins, wins were probably the least important thing he would look at as part of his legacy. even after the best win, he was onto the next thing. he was more interested in winning over young people and took great pride in the ones that were the toughest to save, the ones with the toughest backgrounds, the they were the biggest challenge to him. those ones that graduated gave him the most satisfaction more so than anything he did on the field. >> i'll add, too, that it's interesting how his legacy and impact extended well beyond those who he coached. i didn't know him as a coach, i knew him as a father. one of the things that's really amazed me with all this amazing outpouring of support for him and my mother has been how many people who also viewed him somewhat as a father. i just read a note the other night someone had sent talking about how her husband had abandoned her with a son. the son was having some issues, and a child psychologist said to her, you need to find some positive role modless for your son to help him get his life back in order. she never met my dad, but she used his values and things that he had said publicly to motivate her son and to keep her son. so she wrote this beautiful letter saying you helped me raids my son. you taught my son how to be a man when his own father wasn't there. >> mary kay paterno-hort joining us this morning and jay paterno. thanks for being with us. we appreciate it. it's time now to check in with cnn's christine romans. she has a look at some of the other stories making news. >> good morning, soledad. a massive cleanup underway in alabama after tornadoes touched down in jefferson and tus ka loo is a counties. an 83-year-old man and a 16-year-old girl were killed. the twisters destroyed some 200 homes. alabama's governor has declared a state of emergency. rescuers say another body has been dis recovered from the cruise ship that sank off the coast of italy. that brings the total number of vims to 16. 17 people are still unaccounted for this morning. salvage workers are now pumping fuel out of that cruise liner. you're looking at brand new home video of people evacuating the "costa concordia" after it crashed. survivors denise and david saba filmed it. there were so many people inside the life boat that they thought that they were going to go under there. the pardoned mississippi murderers will remain free. they ruled yesterday that there will be no change in conditions haley barbour granted full pardons to close to 200 people. federal employees reportedly owe more than a billion in taxes. that includes 98,000 federal postal and congressional workers, this according to irs workers. the number of delinquent employees was down slightly from the year before. the amount owed jumped by 32 million bucks. a billion in taxes. aretha franklin getting off the freeway of love after three weeks. the queen of soul releasing a statement that she's calling off her engagement and planned wedding to her long-time companion willie wilkerson. soledad, we just reported on this. >> did you see him there. he was escorting her in the blue gown. that was willie right there. what happened? i just did the story. >> i know. >> wow. well, i think she was sort of saying like they wanted to take it more slowly. she didn't want to rush into things. >> she's fabulous single, she's fabulous engaged. she's just fabulous. >> i would agree. christine, thank you very much. and the music should be aretha franklin. >> that's right. >> come on. ahead this morning on "starting point", the obama memos. hundreds of pages of internal white house documents. what do they show us about the president's leadership? we'll take a look. plus bomb around their nuclear program or sanctions? stay with us. this is $100,000. we asked total strangers to watch it for us. thank you so much, i appreciate it, i'll be right back. they didn't take a dime. how much in fees does your bank take to watch your money ? if your bank takes more money than a stranger, you need an ally. ally bank. no nonsense. just people sense. i'm giving you the silent treatment. so you're calling to tell me you're giving me the silent treatment? 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[ male announcer ] buy unlimited messaging and get free unlimited calling to any mobile phone on any network. at&t. welcome back, everybody. you're watching "starting point." iran accusing europeans of wagging psychological warfare after the eu banned imports of iranian oil. it's part of sanctions. santorum, the candidate, addressed the issue at last night's debate. here's what rick jum had to say. >> it would be reckless not to do something to stop them from getting this nuclear weapon. >> "new york times" columnist will keller joins us this morning with a solution, i suppose. you sat tore rised one option. you call it operation, yes, we can. tell me about this option. >> well, this is a proposal that was made in foreign affairs magazine by a young analyst who spent a little bit of time in the pentagon and who's now proposing that now is the best time for the united states to launch a military strike against iran's far-flung and largely protected nuclear industry. but that's part of -- you know, i don't think that there is a stampede to go to war with iran, but there are -- there's a lot of testosterone in the air. israel is sounding more and more i itchy about iran's nuclear program. the electoral rhetoric probably rachets up the sense that something is impending. >> in some ways, i want you to walk through the options for us, because this represents the classic between a rock in a hard place. sanctions, sanctions, sanctions versus military action which you even say this, much more devastating the impact of those than the problem originally. >> yeah. i mean, there are no easy solutions to iran. one of the problems with campaign season when everything gets full of sound bites, the people talk about easy solutions at one extreme. rick santorum is the closest to this, the idea that we should do something preempttive, military, soon. at the other end, which is represented by ron paul and virtually nobody else, there's the idea that, well, let iran be iran. we'll mind our own business. they don't represent a threat to us. everybody else is pretty much in between. american policy has been remarkably consistent through republican, democratic administrations. it's been sanctions to try and push iran to the bargaining table. various notions of what we might do to sweeten the pot, supply them the fuel they need for non-military nuclear things like medical isotopes. restraining israel from doing something preemptively, wishing we had a different regime to deal with in iran but aware there's probably not much we can do to make that happen. interestingly enough, the policy now is biting harder than it did under the bush administration. as you're seeing from the eiran reaction. >> lets a play a little bit of that. forgive me for interrupting you. since you mentioned it, let's play a chuj about that very issue, the strait of hormuz. listen. >> of course it's an act of war. it is appropriate and essential for our military, for our navy to maintain open seas. >> dictatorships respond to strength. they don't respond to weakness, and i think there's a very grave danger that the iranians think this president is so weak they could close the straits of hormuz and not suffer consequences. >> bill, ultimately is what we're hearing from the candidates, is this just debate spin because as you say the position's actually been fairly consistent over the years? >> yeah. if you go to romney's website and read what he practically prescribes about doing to iran, it's virtually identical to what president obama is doing. gingrich sort of played it shoot from the hip. you know, the idea that iran thinks obama is weak, they sailed the "abraham lincoln" carrier battle group through the strait of hormuz. we sold $33 million worth of hardware to saudi arabia with iran in mind. they're sending all the right signals. the question is if iran expressed, which they have not, some willingness to deal on this issue, could an american president in the middle of this kind of re-election campaign take yes for an answer? >> and the answer to that hypothetical question that you're posing is? >> well, i hope so. i mean, i hope that there's an opening from iran to sit down and start talking about how we stop their program, we will take it, even at the risk that the republican nominee, whoever it is, will beat up on him for it. >> will keler is a "new york times" columnist. thanks for talking to us. we appreciate it. still ahead on the "starting point." the obama memos. the panelists dig into that. we're looking at his decision making based on hundreds of pages of these white house internal documents. we're back in just a moment. welcome back, everybody. you're watching "starting point." there is a fascinating picture emerging of the struggle inside the obama administration, and the source is a mountain of internal white house memos. we have a staff writer for the new yorker. he's been reviewing more than 1,000 pages of these documents. thanks for joining us. you use the word naive. not even naive, delusional is how you describe the president. why do you say that? >> well, when i say it was naive and delusional, it was his campaign promise to overcome structural poll larization that has been a feature of american politics now for a long time. no president, barack obama, anyo else, he was given quite a strong hand to deal with that, economic crisis, extremely popular person, not in the beginning a very polarizing person. obama couldn't accomplish that. i don't think any president can because as president you're not able to change the fundamentals of politics. you're able to exploit those fundamentals and facilitate change as i say in the piece, but you're able to direct that. >> what was your assessment of all of these memos that you were able to sort through. what was your general take away? >> one is there are no easy choices when you're president. >> i could have told you that without reading a thousand memos. >> right. every choice is difficult and the options are unpleasant. >> let's run through a couple of them first. this is one that you write about. this is from larry summers, the economic advisor writing a memo to warn the president elect obama about the fallout from the economic stimulus plan. this could come as a considerable sticker shock to the american public and the american political system potentially reducing your ability to pass your agenda and undermining economic confidence at a critical time. it sounds like saying you could pay heavily if you do this. >> yeah. he was absolutely right about that. remember, when the crisis hit the country, obama did have a choice. he could just focus on the economic crisis and sort of set aside his domestic agenda or he could try to deal with the economic crisis and push his agenda at the same time. he chose the latter. there's a lot of argument about whether that was a wise course or not, but by doing that tlch only so much band width in washington to get stuff zblon so you also write a lot about, sort of, understanding political spin. a lot of people when they're unhappy with the president will talk about the p.r. battle. let's read some of those memos as well. this is good stuff. this is from the president. we need to constantly publicize our successful efforts here. >> yeah. >> i'm surprised at how involved he seems. >> yeah. that was one of the things that struck me. it struck me at the level of detail that obama's advisors were comfortable giving him. these memos were extremely detailed. down into the weeds on policy. obama is offering advice on communications, political advice, legislative strategy, big picture. so, you know, we all wonder how involved is the president in the decision-making process in the white house? my reading of these memos is extremely involved, down into the minute details of the agenda. >> he has a very harsh memo back in 2007. hillary clinton. they were rivalries in a big way. clinton can't be trusted or believed when it comes to change because, quote, she's driven by political calculation, not conviction, regularly backing away and shifting positions. >> yeah. >> very harsh. does that change -- >> that's a memo from obama's political advisors to the president. >> about hillary clinton. >> that's what they're saying. it's about fundamental divide. we need to go at her on character. they had to do it subtly. if obama did it too underhand deadly or too aggressively t would back fire. they had to raise issues about her character so that the press knew that was what the race was about. >> is michelle obama mentioned in any of the memos? >> she's not. these memos were about domestic policy. the first lady is not brought up in any context. >> is this typical for a president, to keep memos in this depth? does president obama communicate via memo more than others? >> good question. bush and david can perhaps speak to this was known as much more of someone who liked his briefings in the oval office orally. obama tends to be a little bit more interested in the written word. he takes his big binder of memos up every night and sits in the treaty room and goes through the work. >> very interesting. nice to have you. ahead on "starting point" this morning, the romney campaign is just about to release some tax return information. we'll be able to tell you exactly what mitt romney made, which is a lot, and what he paid in taxes, also a lot. senator john kerry breaks his nose playing hockey. ouch. we've got some pictures of that. you're watching "starting point." back after the short break. life with crohn's disease is a daily game of "what ifs". what if my stomach pain and cramps come back? what if the plane gets delayed? what if i can't hide my symptoms? what if this takes too long? what if? but what if the most important question is the one you're not asking? what if the underlying cause of your crohn's symptoms is damaging inflammation? for help getting the answers you need visit knowcrohns.com/tv and use the interactive discussion guide to speak with your gastroenterologist. welcome back, everybody. we've got this just in to cnn. mitt romney is now releasing his tax returns. we've got a team of folks joining me this morning to break down some of those numbers including cnn's christine romans who's been following the story. she is actually on that conference call with the campaign as they run down what is in mitt romney's taxes. we're going to chat with you in just a minute, christine. let me introduce the rest of the folks on our panel. martin sullivan is a contributor. we have grover norquist. david frum. roland martin is strolling in. >> i'll just pop in. >> put a microphone on. we're going to wait to hear more details. they're releasing this tax information right now. give me a sense, mr. sullivan, of what are you looking for? what are you seeing so far that we first heard? >> i think we're not going to see many surprises. mr. romney's already told us that he pays a 15% tax rate and we already know that he's a very wealthy person so the headline or the take away probably is romney is wealthy and he pays much lower taxes than most americans. >> wait a minute. wait a minute. how many americans pay $3 million in tax sns. >> i misspoke. he pays a lower tax rate. >> percentage wise. even i knew that. >> because he's paying taxes on capital gains which is money he's invested that he's already earned and already paid taxes on. every dollar that he's invested since he retired from bain is something he earned and payed taxes on. >> at 15% rate. >> some of that 15, some of it 13. the 15% he's paying now, capital gains, any american pays, is a second bite at the apple. you've already paid taxes on earning a dollar and then they come back and say, well, if you take it out and drink it, we don't care. if you go buy stuff with it, we don't care. if you invest it, we're going to tax you. this is a second bite at the apple. again, if you die, they want to take half. so the government comes by and takes many bites at the apple. his 15%, one of the reasons i think that warren buffet's a little disingenuous and the guy who should be releasing his tax returns, sent's tax returns, is warren buffet who keeps playing this game that his secretary pays less than him, which isn't true. he means a lower rate. >> what warren buffet has said, correct me if i'm wrong, is his secretary is paying a higher rate of taxes than he, the billionaire. >> higher tax rate on presumably earned income. >> right. so she's making roughly $80,000. that puts her in a high tax bracket. he's a billionaire. his money is protected. percentage wise warren buffet is right? >> she's paying payroll taxes. if mitt romney has his way and estate tax is repealed. he'll save himself tens of millions of dollars when he dies. getting back to the capital gains issue. there's two types of rich people in this country. rich people who work, lawyers, doctors, executives of corpses. they pay full freight, 35%. but people who don't -- rich people who don't work, like romney, they get most of their -- they get most of their income in the form of dividends and capital gains and in his case carried interest. they get a 15% tax rate. we have an election coming up. fairness is going to be an issue. this whole disclosure episode is going to highlight that issue. >> let me suggest a way to think about fairness. a capital gains tax is say tax on a transaction. one of the reasons why historically we have favored low taxes on capital gains is you don't want to stop transactions. somebody owns a store, they're not making good use of the store, there's somebody else who has a better idea for the store, you want to make sure that that transaction happens. you don't want to put impediments in the way. >> there is a problem which is especially since about the year 2000 thanks to the effort of people like charles schumer, more and more earnings have been recategorized as capital gains. we need to make a distinction, true capital gains, which do deserve a lower rate of tax and these other efforts. >> let's talk about all of this in a political context. here is adam putnam earlier this morning. he basically said that mitt romney can move on from this discussion because he's now released his taxes. let's play that first. >> it shows that he's a generous guy, that he gives to charity, that he tithes to his church. it shows that he made a lot of money by successfully creating jobs and deriving money from the private sector as opposed to a guy like newt gingrich who is cashing in on his connections and drawing $1.6 million from freddie mac while the housing market in america was going down the tubes. >> so in the political aspect, right, he's a romney surrogate obviously. what he's saying, it's done. everybody, let's move on. let's move on and analyze newt gingrich. >> largely true, but it would have been a lot more true if he had released these two years ago, three years ago, six months ago. >> that's the would of, should of, could of window at the racetrack. >> somebody's judgment who's running for president, the obvious move would have been to put this out four years ago, two years ago, one year zblag isn't the bigger question about fairness? the conversation is about income equality. >> we were distracted by the issue of disclosure. now that that's over with, let's focus on the substance of his tax situation, which is a very dramatic situation. we have a very wealthy person who pays very low tax rates. is he -- his company used the tax system to do his deals. the leveraged buyout industry, whether you think it's good, creative destruction or bad, vulture capitalism, those deals depend on taxes advantage of the tax system which provides them with hundreds of millions of dollars of extra tax benefits. >> isn't the argument that money has been invested back into the country? >> the president will make the argument, if you vote for obama, mitt romney will pay more tax. the key thing to understanding going into this is that's not true. if president obama is re-elected charles schumer will stay make sure that mitt romney pays 15%. >> this is not going to -- the president has done nothing to raise mitt romney's taxes and won't. >> the reason this has become this big issue is also because of income inequality in this country. >> right. that's the claim. >> at the end of the day people are saying wait a minute the firms at the top have made so much more money over the last 20 years compared to the other 99%. that's what was driving it. that's why mitt has to fight being the rich guy in the race. >> let me check in with christine romans. as i mentioned when we started, she is monitoring this conference call that the romney campaign is having. any final update? >> looking at the 1040 for this year for willard m. romney, it reminded me his first name isn't mitt, the campaign is tauting and the call is beginning, that he's paid $6 million over the past couple of years and he gives a lot of money to charity. no surprise there. his charitable giving averages about 16%. they're pointing out at the top of the call, everything is legal. this is the american tax code. i'll tell you it's big. this is 2011 right here. there's six different returns they've just filed including a family trust that i'm going to zero in on because there have been these questions about how he's been able to gift millions of dollars to a family trust without paying gift tax. so we're going to look in on that and also see where these investments have been made around the world. as i told you earlier, his campaign had been saying they closed a swiss account -- there was nothing illegal about it, but they closed that swiss account telling reuters they didn't want anything to look unusual even though they say it wasn't. we'll be looking at the cayman islands. he's still making money. i'm not surprised by this. still making money through investments in bain, blind investments but still making money, he and his wife and the trust making money through bain. we'll keep watching this for you. there's an awful lot to go through. >> clearly on one front. i think the other front will be is this enough? does the conversation politically move forward for mitt romney the candidate? when people say it's all legal, i don't think anybody was sort of saying, well, maybe there's illegal materials. we have to take a break. grover is all over this tax story. we'll get back to you. ahead this morning on "starting point", a former football star lamar campbell is finding success. what did all those years on the field do to his body, and especially do to his brain? dr. sanjay gupta will take a look at that. plus it's oscar time. we'll tell you who's up for best picture and director. what this year's biggest surprise. we're back in a moment. [ male announcer ] the inspiring story of how a shipping giant can befriend a forest may seem like the stuff of fairy tales. but if you take away the faces on the trees... take away the pixie dust. take away the singing animals, and the storybook narrator... [ man ] you're left with more electric trucks. more recycled shipping materials... and a growing number of lower emissions planes... which still makes for a pretty enchanted tale. ♪ la la la [ man ] whoops, forgot one... [ male announcer ] sustainable solutions. fedex. solutions that matter. a little bird told me about a band... ♪ an old man shared some fish stories... ♪ oooh, my turn. ♪ she was in paris, but we talked for hours... everyone else buzzed about the band. there's a wireless mind inside all of us. so, where to next? ♪ and welcome back to "starting point", everybody. this week we're taking a closer look at the problem of concussions in football. we're talking about former detroit lions defensive back lamar campbell. he says that he thinks that education is what's key to playing a safer game. that brings us to dr. sanjay gupta who's joining us again with "the human factor." why did you want to talk specifically about lamar campbell. >> reporter: i wanted to look at what life was right after these players leave the pros. they do it at a pretty young age. he played four years in college, he played five years, as you mentioned, in the pros. 's been able to establish a second career. he's doing okay. these guys retire in their late 20s. what you might expect is that these hits they take during the game take a toll. we see it when we watch the game. i wanted to learn what it was like for him specifically. listen to how he puts it. >> i'm what you would call in the nfl uninsurable. you have every operation from 18 years old through your nfl career and your file is two inches thick. you go to any insurance company -- when i left the game i was under warranty. i was 27, 28 years old. i was still doing pretty good. my body wasn't that bad. now that i'm 35, my body is terrible and i'm uninsured. the premiums are sky high. i think that's something that a lot of guys face a lot of hardships with, especially guys with families. >> wow. so basically it makes sense -- i'm sorry, sanjay. let me ask you a question. it sounds like someone like that, i never thought about this for nfl players, they need some kind of long-term health care. he is priced out of the market because of all of the injuries he sustained as a player, right? >> reporter: that's exactly right. while he was playing he was covered well. this is one of the things that's being discussed now is part of this ongoing lawsuit that you may have heard about, soledad, 100 players and their wives, spouses, filing suit against the nfl saying we need the sort of long-term coverage. by the way, some of the types of injuries that we suffered, including the ones to our brains, are things the nfl knew about. that's what they're alleging and part of what they're asking for is exactly that point, soledad. they want to get some long-term coverage. >> so how many of these players, maybe there's not a percentage that's known, but how many have this kind of dementia? is it very, very rare, very, very common, somewhere in between? >> reporter: what we know is the only way you can absolutely diagnose it in terms of seeing the changes in brain is on autopsy. there's this amazing place in boston where they're looking at brains of players who may have died for whatever reason. what they're finding is that in most of these players, especially the professional ones, they're seeing these deposits in the brain, soledad, that makes the players in their 30s or 40s have the brains of someone in their 70s or 80s. it's the alzheimer's like changes in the brain. i was up there, soledad. i saw a player as young as 17 years old who already had these changes in his brain. it seems to start early and continue through life. it causes these memory loss, depression, anger. we're hearing more and more stories about the lives of these players after the game. >> that's terrible. sanjay, thank you. everybody should know that his documentary which is called "big hits, broken dreams," premiers on sunday, at 8:00 p.m. the oscars, 2012. drum roll. anybody? drum roll. come on, panel. wake up! i'm getting no support from my panel this morning, nothing. nothing, from you people. we will reveal the nominees up next. wake up. more coffee for my table. so who ordered the cereal that can help lower cholesterol and who ordered the yummy cereal? yummy. [ woman ] lower cholesterol. [ man 2 ] yummy. i got that wrong didn't i? [ male announcer ] want great taste and whole grain oats that can help lower cholesterol? honey nut cheerios. welcome back, everybody. that's what it looks like. that's what it looks like inside the diner here in washington, d.c. our reveal is all about hollywood. nominations for the 84th oscars. the nominees are? thank you. it only takes two times. here we go. we'll look at the categories. best actor, george gloony for the "d" sen dents. jean due jar den. brad pitt for "moneyball." beacher for a better life. "tinker tailor soldier spy." best actress, viola davis for "the help." meryl streep for "the iron lady." michelle williams, my week with marilyn. glenn close, "the girl with the dragon tattoo." best picture, "the artist", the "d" sen dents, the help, "the tree of life", midnight in paris, "moneyball", "hugo." those are the nominees. "the artist", in case you haven't heard, it's a black and white film. have you seen that? >> no. >> that's your rule, only colored? the only film to win best picture, it was the very first picture. it took place, david frum, what year was that? >> i'll guess 1922. >> 1929, pretty close. i'm a little bit impressed with that. it was "wings" just released and restored on dvd. if you wanted to see that you could see that. oscars, by the way, sunday day. your sarcasm is not appreciated. the oscars are on sunday, february 26th. hello, prompter, you're killing me without me moving with you. we'll take a short break. back with you in a moment. the capital one venture card. you earn double miles on every purchase. impressive. chalk is a lost medium. if you're not earning double miles... you're settling for half. was that really necessary? [ male announcer ] get the venture card at capitalone.com and earn double miles on every purchase every day. what's in your wallet? cover for me. i have an audition. a little bird told me about a band... ♪ an old man shared some fish stories... ♪ oooh, my turn. ♪ she was in paris, but we talked for hours... everyone else buzzed about the band. there's a wireless mind inside all of us. so, where to next? ♪ we end here at the diner with our "end point." mr. sullivan, why don't you start. >> the release of mr. romney's tax returns the beginning of this tax debate for the 2012 election. there will be a lot more discussion about his tax situation and bain's situation. >> the tax situation for the country. >> there are two discussions on taxes. democrats look at taxes and think inequality and they tax other people. republicans talk about lower taxes as a pro-job approach. they're making a big mistake for allowing that be what we're looking at for the rest of the campaign. lower taxes and growth trumps looting somebody else. >> looting is a strong word, sir. go ahead. >> taking their money by force. >> fascinated by mitt romney's returns. now i want to know about newt, inc. what we need to know about him is not contained in his tax returns. >> which you have to file returns for as well. >> some, yes. some, no. they're businesses, nonprofits. it's a very intricate box. i'd like to see the ins of that. >> roland martin. >> taxes, whatever. everybody needs to watch sanjay's special. to all the fans up there, shut the hell up the next time

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