vice president had directly conveyed his position on these issues to the president? >> many times. >> and he'd been consistent in conveying his decision to the president? >> very consistent. >> you basically cannot overstate the pressure trump was putting on pence in the lead-up to january 6th. >> i hope that our great vice president, our great vice president comes through for us. he's a great guy. of course if he doesn't come through, i won't like him quite as much. >> that night pence's outside lawyer, richard cohen, phoned retired judge michael ludig, an esteemed republican for help and advice. >> he said, judge, do you know john eastman. and i said, yes, john was a clerk of mine about 20, 25 years ago. and he said, well, john's advising the president and vice president that the vips does not have to accept the electoral