people like secretary of state mike pompeo, it is the president himself that are preventing them from testifying. we did see denials from the offices today. but it is very different to see them -- >> mick mulvaney in that awkward news conference in the white house briefing room a couple of weeks or so ago, he basically confirmed that quid pro quo. although a few hours later he tried to deny it. >> yeah, he did. and one of the things that gordon sondland had trouble with today was telling lawmakers who else could come forth and provide some of the answers to their remaining questions. because the reality is the white house is preventing those folks from coming forth. and did he eventually say that mick mulvaney would be one of those people who would be able to give a definitive answer. he believed as if president trump saw a direct connection between the assistance and the investigations that were being asked for. >> you cover the state department for us, kylie, how much of a setback is this for secretary of state mike pompeo? >> it is extremely damning for