rick perry is someone who has been back and forth to ukraine, i think, three times now that he's visited. in another interview he's saying, no, i didn't bring up the bidens during this sit-down with the ukranian president, and today in a statement, his spokesperson is confirming that, saying that in all the conversations he's had with these ukranian officials, including the president, they say hunter biden and joe biden have never come up during any of those conversations. of course, the question will be whether or not the ukranians were well aware that this is something the president wanted them to look at while they were having these discussions with rick perry. and the question going forward will be, are house democrats going to try to sit down with the energy secretary, someone who has really managed to avoid the president's ire for some time now that he's been in this cabinet position? the question now will be whether or not the president continues to try to use him as a scap derks goa