>> eleanor, a bit of a circus here? overplaying the seriousness as ramesh is saying of the partial shutdown? >> it's political entertainment definitely. it's also very serious. i think there's been a quiet consensus among the media the shutdown will roll into the debt ceiling. you can't separate the two although i understand that some people on the right would like to separate the two because they are really getting a lot of heat for flirting with default. >> joe, i think this is something that i really want you to take on with some seriousness here because it's fine to say that this is all about politics and it's a partial shutdown but when you talk to people who are actually not working, there are people at the nsa not working and people at the agriculture department who are not working and people who are supposed to crank out data that said hog futures and they're not working. there are real jobs not getting done here. >> that's true. i think the reason why this isn't resonating with the american people on that aspect as much is because when you woke up with the government shutdown