to take advantage of the judicial system, in my book i referred to it as obstruction of justice as a way of life. it wasn't that he played close to the edge. he didn't acknowledge there were edges. it was probably only a matter of time that he did something that could result in an actual criminal trial. but again, the equities here, a prosecutor has to decide. many of trump's critics, of whom i'm one, miss the point. it's not impeachment that stops him. it's not indictment that stops him. it's conviction. if you impeach and you fail to convict, you don't could not strain him. you empower him. if you indict and fail to convict, you could elect him president again. >> ambassador bolton, thank you for your time. for more on what we're learning about the special counsel's investigation, i want