a perception of a war on women from the right is the refusal to accept the bleeding obvious. >> it is so not because kids don't know how to put a condom on. oh, if only they had a free condom. to the contrary, it isn't. >> actually it is. where you can statistically prove there is more awareness -- [ overlapping speakers ] >> more contraception being sold and being used. >> right. >> in those areas abortion rights are coming down. it's inarguable. >> no. it can be inarguable the two things are happening at the same time. to claim that one caused the other takes a lot more evidence than what you have. i mean, a lot of things, maybe obama being president has caused women not to have abortions because they're so happy they love the first black president. there's no proof that one leads to the other. >> do you think there's proof more are using contraception? >> there is proof that with the greater availability of contraception and abortion there will be more ill legitimacy, more abortions. look at it over decades as opposed to one or two years.