it's quite possible that he did in fact love her. sexuality is very dynamic, very complex. i don't want to create a kind of public narrative that somehow he was being devious or deceptive because there is a sort of narrative already of men and particularly black men who are gay or same gender loving who are somehow deviously deceiving their sexual partners. i think it's much more complex than that. >> abby, i was watching spike lee give an interesting interview to anderson cooper earlier in which he said the reality is a lot of african-americans remain quite homophobic and that would have been one of the main concerns, i'm sure, for jason collins was that even his own community, there would be a lot of people who would be quite bigoted towards him and that may have been one of the reasons he had this protective shield which involved caroline and the relationship he had. >> absolutely. but to mark's point, i think he has made it clear that he has known for a very long time that he is gay. i think we're seeing that we all are made differently and i love the quote that he said that we're all trying to figure out the puzzle that we are, and you