vu, we don't know how this is going to end. you have a personal lawyer working for donald trump who also profits off of his using his association with him, sounds a bit like michael cohen. and the president is now starting to sound like he did when he was talking about cohen before he flipped, slowly distancing himself from him. susan giuliani talked about having insurance against the president. could any case against him go down differently than cohen's? >> yeah. so this is interesting to see sort of the parallels play out. now giuliani has said that this sort of crack he's now made multiple times about having insurance in the event that the president of the united states throws him under the bus. it doesn't look that much like a joke. it looks a little more like a veiled threat he's saying if the president of the united states doesn't protect him, he might reveal some sort of damaging information. now, it's significant to see donald trump sort of trying to distance himself from giuliani a little bit, saying that he didn't know anything about what giuliani was doing in ukraine. >> right. >> giuliani had lots and lots of