and i want you to take a look at this. this is a hypothetical match-up in a general election. when you put clinton versus trump and sanders versus trump, we should have that to pull up for you guys here. you've got sanders beating trump by a wider margin. is sanders out of this thing? doesn't seem like it. >> look, look -- i just have to point out that going into the jefferson jackson debate this time eight years ago barack obama was lower down in the polls, i believe, than sanders. anything can happen in a democratic primary, democratic caucus. and let's not forget. bernie sanders is probably going to do something today that is going to electrify that iowa base. hillary clinton has done extraordinarily well. i think she was like beyonce, flawless in the debate. i think when it came time for the hearings, it was like trying to tie down gulliver, they couldn't do it.