you've heard it as one that the united states administration is clearly has considerable belief in as well. but the militants on the ground insist they know they have nothing to do with it. they've insisted they're not trying to cover up anything as well, jim. >> you listen to that recording, if you wanted to script something that would be the proof that the russians wanted to be the black boxes, it would be scripted exactly like that. it is an information war. i want to talk about the crash scene today. there have been some reports that the various international observers have had access. but at the same time shocking reports coming out. there was evidence that some people had stolen credit cards off some of the deceased passengers and used them. i mean, more evidence of people interfering with that site. i wonder what you're hearing and what you were seeing there today? >> we've certainly seen evidence of people interfere.