then be engaged. >> sure, and that's why i say it's a straw man argument. it's constructed so that you can't do it. if you want to provide them air support, let them have more migs. if you want to provide nato aircraft to support a humanitarian convoy, do it. >> you heard russia's response to that, too. that any nation doing that handing over migs would then be a provocation. >> well, you know, it's not russia's air space. it's ukraine's air space, fredricka. and if we believe in international law, then are we going to take any risk to defend it or not? and so the way these operations have to be done is you have to put the onus for the escalation on russia. >> sure. >> if you can't do this, we can't deal with taiwan or the baltics. we have to think our way through this. >> i got you. and i am not arguing with you. i am simply, you know, pressing