and not everybody -- everybody knew it and they participated knowingly allowing her to get up and perjure herself. that is the allegation for civil conspiracy. and he sued the attorney, ben crump for defamation of him. i don't know that his character is that high anyway, but this is the foundation for this lawsuit, fred, but it will take awhile before it is moved forward or dismissed. >> what is at the root of this? >> you wonder if the case was driven by ideology rather than facts. i mean, there are references to behavior from six, seven, eight years ago. why would someone go to the trouble of going against a mom and dad who lost their son, they're not collectible, we also know that the law enforcement defendants who have been named are absolutely immean. they have immunity under federal