vulker who brought him into this is just not factual. and the reality is when they go down this process, president trump and the white house will decide who is helpful and who is vulnerable here. and rudy julianny is making himself a target. and if he holds to this position well maybe he won't testify, or he needs to talk to president trump, it does open up a threat of an obstruction dimension to this, where rudy julian -- giuliani would be part of this. >> do you see that vulker will be able to say the same thing? his resignation made him a far more appealing candidate to be subpoenaed. >> no, absolute i think you're