how does she answer those as her popularity rises? >> well, carly has been absolutely fearless as you know about taking on the status quo and certainly she did that when she challenged barbara boxer, who is one of the ultimate political insider, in a very challenging state, certainly california -- carly fiorina clearly doesn't shirk away from a challenge. but in terms of her career at hp, she has said that she is happy to and proud to talk about her record there. she doubled the psi of the company. she quadrupled their cash flow. she tripled their -- >> company figure is very misleading because she presided over a merger and it wasn't that she grew the profits of the company. that doubling took place because she merged with another company and that merger has been seen years later as one of the biggest failures in the business world in 500 years. >> i challenge your premise because tom perkins, who as you