criticism because of the 30,000 layoffs that she oversaw at hp. you've overseen more than that. is that criticism warranted in a run for the white house? >> listen what i learned in politics everything is fair game. when you run, they can ask you any question on any subject. i would argue that when carly made those reductions -- i wasn't here but i would say she's trying to make the company more competitive, which is what i'm trying to do. >> so she's saying yes, fair game but she was doing what she had to do. >> right. >> trump's bankruptcies were honed in on last night. >> they were. >> is this a big challenge for carly fiorina? >> and i thought of anyone on the debate stage trump was the least impressive. you would think that he would prepare for that question about bankruptcy. he was out of his element and wasn't quite sure how to handle that. whenever you ask carly fiorina about her record, she says in that role you do have to make difficult decisions.