being relied on less by putin. he's not consulting them as much which is maybe why they're speaking out. but you do need to build a consensus among elites that this is going to destroy the country, to have some kind of intervention, which in the past has led leaders to be forced into exile or thrown out by a coup. >> if history is our guide, is that the most likely scenario for a strongman like putin to be removed, to be taken down? >> it is. i would caution that this, again, would take a very long time, it could potentially, because russia is most fully realized institutionalized thievery since something like gadhafi and many influential russians have been part of the spoil system for a very long time. they are wedded to this regime.