government can kill, it doesn't help advance the point that no one should kill. there's a kind of illogic to the death penalty in my view. we say we're going to teach people that killing is wrong by killing someone. most people who are in crisis, the mentally ill, people who are in the margins of society aren't going to be deterred by the threat of violence or death. >> so do you think there is any circumstance in which the death penalty is waurnltded? >> no for me, it's about, do we deserve to kill? i think if you focus the question on, does someone deserve to die? you can come up with those scenarios. but if you turn the question to, do we deserve to kill, we don't have a perfect system. and the death penalty requires a perfect system. if you make a mistake you don't have the ability to recover. >> as you know the supreme court just halted the trump administration's effort to