and his story did not end there. andrew, good to have you with me. you are working on a new book about giuliani. >> that's right. >> you started covering him as a city hall reporter in the '90s? >> that's right. >> is this where you saw his story going? >> no. no. giuliani was always kind of a risk taker and kind of a combustible kind of public figure, but he always had kind of a discipline, and so he picked his targets very carefully and kind of aimed his fire very carefully here. there seems to be kind of a more undisciplined quality. also, you know, the risks he has taken in the last few years has been of a whole other proportion to what he had done in the past. i mean, looking for dirt on joe biden in ukraine was remarkable enough, but now it seems as though there was a financial incentive as well and the people in ukraine he was speaking with