authority. cuccinelli has said the conversation never developed to the point of talking about an executive order. cnn has also learned that another top aide to former vice president mike pence, greg jacob, is meeting with the january 6th committee today. the other aid, marc short, pence's chief of staff, gave an interview to the committee last week. let's talk about this now with former federal prosecutor, retired army lieutenant general mark hurtling, cnn military analyst and cnn senior political analyst john avlon, who once worked for rudy giuliani when he was new york mayor. welcome to all of you. and john, let's start with you. and this -- i mean, we first learned that rudy giuliani was at the head of this fake elector scam. now he's going to cuccinelli and saying, hey, can you lead up this seizure of voting machines? just how integral he is to this broad scam to try to steal the election. >> he seems to have been completely integral. donald trump was using him as